You're still comparing potatoes to apples and you're still believing that your values are universale.
French lawmakers Approve Full Veil Ban
- Thread starter Angela 0077
- Start date
You're still comparing potatoes to apples and you're still believing that your values are universale.
And you're doing anything different?
Absolutely not. This is something we have in common on both sides of the Atlantic. We all think our values are universale and should be everyone's values in the world. If I aknowledge this fact all the time, there is no debate but now we're all going in circle so it's time to aknowledge this fact.
But you've often voiced your opinion against legislating morality (i.e. bans on abortion and gay marriage) but somehow now it's okay?
1st thing, morality is a very foreign concept to me, I'm not sure I understand what is behind this word.
2nd thing, the main duty of my state is to protect freedom and equality so what happens when you think that the niqab is a symbol of enslavement and submission ?
The niqab is against every key concepts of this country, from equality to laïcité. An equivalent for you would be like being against your bill of rights.
You're arguing that because women who practice Islam are suppressed by wearing the veil, it is your government's duty to free them from that oppression. That's legislating morality, Carrie.
Here is why it isn't banned here...
In other words, as long as they're not hurting anybody, they can wear the burqas. You can worship if you want; you don't worship if you don't want to.
Here is why it isn't banned here...
In other words, as long as they're not hurting anybody, they can wear the burqas. You can worship if you want; you don't worship if you don't want to.
I want to know.. what happens to me if I walk down a street in Paris with a floral bed sheet over my head? Will I be arrested?
No. Comparing the mistreatment of minority groups is not "comparing potatoes to apples".
[puote] and you're still believing that your values are universal.[/QUOTE]If by values you mean my belief that minority groups who aren't hurting anyone shouldn't be mistreated by an oppressive majority then yes, I think this should be a universal belief. Just like how I think not murdering someone should be a universal value.
What I see here(in this thread) is an argument between practicality and philosophy.
Theoretically speaking, banning the face veils are bad because it would seem to take a way a right. Practically speaking, banning them will enhance the liberty of all women in France because the women who are forced to wear it will no longer be allowed to do so.
We really need to come together as a group of people here and recognize that face veils and such are bad for women.
Theoretically speaking, banning the face veils are bad because it would seem to take a way a right. Practically speaking, banning them will enhance the liberty of all women in France because the women who are forced to wear it will no longer be allowed to do so.
We really need to come together as a group of people here and recognize that face veils and such are bad for women.
Call that morality if you want, this concept is still foreign to me.
And I should care because ? The American position on religions look silly seen from here you know.
The text says that you can't hide your face in the public space with some exceptions so...
This is not mistreatment. The stupidity that says that a woman can't show her face (and often, speak to a stranger and a lot of bullshit like that) outside is.
And I think that thre should be something to prevent a minority groups of integrist muslim men from opressing women.
Oh shit, you live in a silly world
Okay, I will help then, although it's a little awkward pointing out the painfully obvious:
Enslavement is not a Human Right. Freedom is a Human Right. Being able to wear what you want, including clothing that represents your religious beliefs, is a freedom that should be protected by governments, not compromised by governments. When the government of Iran prohibits a woman from wearing a miniskirt, that is what a free people calls "oppression;" when the government of France prohibits a woman from wearing a veil, that is what a free people calls "oppression." Freedom doesn't just apply to things that you like.
You said that the veil is banned because it is a symbol of inequality in a particular culture. So I sarcastically suggested that an Atheist, formally registered as such under the increasingly Fascist French government, would be free to wear a veil, because it has no such symbolism in that person's culture. By the same token, a registered Deist or Catholic would be free to wear the veil-- as long as they have their papers with them when they are stopped by the gendarmes.I don't get it."Sarcasm."A registered Atheist ?What's that seriously ?
I promise you a number of these women don't have a problem with wearing veals. Just because another culture goes against your cultural norms doesn't mean it needs to be forcibly changed. Espicially when all we are talking about is freaking clothing!
If some of these women are oppressed then they will remain oppressed veal or no veal. Clothing will make no difference.
It should never be the government's job to tell people they can't wear something. All you are doing is taking away a right and taking away rights isn't the answer.
We all know why this is actually happening. It has nothing to do with "set these women free" but instead has everything to do with the French being scared to death of losing their cultural identity and in the process will work to kill off or minimize any outside cultures that tries to set up shop in their country.
It's the same reason they banned headscarves in schools a few years back. It is not about helping people but is about minimizing or killing an intruding culture.
Yup, to take a quote from you
you just don't get it
Sigh. By the French government. Never mind. I give up. 
Sigh. By the French government. Never mind. I give up.
Collecting datas on religious belief (and ethnicity) is prohibited over here, that's why your sarcasm is not even sarcasm, it's nonsense.
Here's an interesting BBC story I saw.
It isn't just the Americans that have this "crazy" idea of freedom.
"Damian Green told the Sunday Telegraph trying to pass such a law would be at odds with the UK's "tolerant and mutually respectful society".
It isn't just the Americans that have this "crazy" idea of freedom.
"Damian Green told the Sunday Telegraph trying to pass such a law would be at odds with the UK's "tolerant and mutually respectful society".
No, your idea of freedom. The American (and anglo-saxon...
...) view on religions is not universal. BTW : laïcité