A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

[Reverend]

Yeah, the Drazi have only known about the pods since the open outbreak of hostilities. Prior to that, none of the Centauri warships had been taken out because they we only engaging civilian transports, not full blown warships.
The thing with the Enphili had been going on for about a decade and they weren't the only world treated as such. The Drazi Freehold had a deal with that group of raiders to basically help themselves to all the low-tech, independent worlds along their border in exchange for a cut. They didn't have for did they need control pods to pull that off. As for bugging Mollari, remember that happened after Garibaldi's mission to Zhabar went south. The Freehold's intellegence service (or equivalent) must have somehow gotten wind that it was the Centauri who where secretly after their man. Bugging Vir's veggies and trying to pry a confirmation out of Sheridan was just them acting on their suspicions.

 

[JoeD80]

Even if the Drazi were able to reverse-engineer the control pods and use them on the raider ships, they wouldn't have started getting them until after the Centuari raids began, which was after "The Paragon of Animals,"

Actually, the new Raids started after Z'ha'dum exploded when the Drakh first headed to Centauri Prime. The new Raids were mentioned in several episodes in season four.

The thing with the Enphili had been going on for about a decade and they weren't the only world treated as such.

Hm I did forget the timeline for that.

As for bugging Mollari, remember that happened after Garibaldi's mission to Zhabar went south. The Freehold's intellegence service (or equivalent) must have somehow gotten wind that it was the Centauri who where secretly after their man. Bugging Vir's veggies and trying to pry a confirmation out of Sheridan was just them acting on their suspicions.

I think it could also be likely because they want to make sure all the suspicion is cast on the Centauri and that no one is looking their way. Even when Lyta finally makes the discovery they don't want to turn over the technology because they don't want to have to share it with the Alliance. The way I read Garibaldi's failed mission in the prior episode knowing what the Drazi know is that they were trying to lead Garibaldi straight to the Centauri to cast suspicion off of their activities, and then bugged Londo to see what he knew about what they knew.

 

[David cgc]

Even if the Drazi were able to reverse-engineer the control pods and use them on the raider ships, they wouldn't have started getting them until after the Centuari raids began, which was after "The Paragon of Animals,"

Actually, the new Raids started after Z'ha'dum exploded when the Drakh first headed to Centauri Prime. The new Raids were mentioned in several episodes in season four.

I don't remember that. The closest I can think of are the Hypothetical Aliens that Sheridan got everyone worried about in "Rumors, Bargains, and Lies."

 

[JoeD80]

^
Sheridan mentions that commercial transports are now being subject to Raider attacks to Londo and G'Kar in "Conflicts of Interest."

 

[Reverend]

Space is big and there are always raider attacks all over the place by an ever changing parade of criminal cartels and opportunists. We briefly see one such group at the beginning of 'Thirdspace', operating near Freehold territory mid-season 4 and we know from later on that the Drakh were also raiding near Minbari and pak'ma'ra space around that time too. None of this points to the Drazi having shadow tech or being behind some wider conspiracy.

Indeed, the smuggler and weapons runners Ivanova brought in to work for B5 said that since the war profits are down across the board and nobody is buying weapons anymore. So you have a small fleet of fast smuggling ships, a vast stockpile of unsold weapons and a whole bunch of highly skilled pilots who aren't getting paid from their usual Dust running and smuggling gigs. With dozens, if not hundreds of worlds and colonies in disarray, whole militaries wiped out is it any wonder raider attacks spiked so drastically? In fact there's several references to scavenger fleets and colonies being evacuated in the aftermath. Hell for a while there Garibaldi made a modest living out of helping people pick up the pieces.

 

[TheGodBen]

And would you believe TNT did a mid-season break at this point, and left us hanging for THREE FUCKING MONTHS?!?!?!?

Considering what I've learned about the way this show and its fans were treated while it was airing, I have no trouble believing it.

The Fall of Centauri Prime (****)

I'm often surprised when people say that the found an episode of a TV show hard to watch because they find it disturbing or upsetting, Intersections in Real Time is an example of this as someone in this thread said that it was hard for them to watch that episode. I didn't feel that way while watching it, I enjoyed that episode and didn't find it hard to stomach at all. The Wire is an example of a show that contains many moments that made me feel bad, including the deaths of some of my favourite characters, but I never found it hard to watch. Sometimes good shows do things to make you feel bad, and I rarely have a problem with that.

This episode is an exception. I like Londo, I'll go out on a limb and say that he's my favourite character on this show, so knowing that this was probably going to be the episode that saw him descend into the despot from War Without End was a difficult thing for me to accept. He has grown so much since season 1, he has become a better person in so many ways, and watching all that being taken away from him by evil aliens was upsetting. His final conversation with G'Kar as the "real" Londo was a lovely moment, it's one of my favourite from the show. To watch him walk away from that and into his doom...

Sadly, one thing held this episode back for me; the scenes between Delenn and Lennier on the damaged White Star. Every time they appeared on screen I felt like shouting at them, "Get out of my Londo episode!" Recently the show has been milking this unrequited love story and each time it shows up the less that I care. It's not even a proper love triangle, it's just a line with a dot looking sadly at it.

Now that the Centauri war is over, what's left for the show to do? Four episodes of goodbye montages and orgies? I don't want to watch that!

Scott Bakula: 74

 

[hyzmarca]

From this point of the Garabaldi needs to get laid subplot and the Lenier really needs to get laid subplot both swing into high gear and take center stage, eventually intersecting when the two travel together to a planet populated entirely by prostitutes where they get into several wacky adventures that prevent them from actually having sex with anyone. Or something like that.

Lenier really does need to get laid.

 

[Forbin]

"The Last Minbari Virgin" is my favorite 5th season episode.

 

[Forbin]

ACK! DP

 

[Neroon]

"The Last Minbari Virgin" is my favorite 5th season episode.

What about "The 40-Year-Old Minbari?"

 

[JoeD80]

Space is big and there are always raider attacks all over the place by an ever changing parade of criminal cartels and opportunists.

Probably true. However, these particular raids were mentioned by Joe which is why I started to connect the pieces. They aren't mentioned until the Drakh move in to Centauri Prime, but they are shortly after, and it would be easy for the Drakh to start using ships the minute they get there:

And, again, the [season five arc] was there when it didn't seem to be: this whole thing started when the *raids started to take place*, which goes back quite a ways.

Four episodes of goodbye montages and orgies? I don't want to watch that!

A couple of loose ends that are tied up but left open at the same time. I think the orgies ended when Byron sacrificed the Telepaths.

 

[Hyperspace05]

While I think most of season 5 is sub-par, The Fall of Centauri Prime still manages to end up on my top 10 list of all B5 episodes.

Such a wonderful and tragic episode.

 

[Reverend]

Space is big and there are always raider attacks all over the place by an ever changing parade of criminal cartels and opportunists.

Probably true. However, these particular raids were mentioned by Joe which is why I started to connect the pieces. They aren't mentioned until the Drakh move in to Centauri Prime, but they are shortly after, and it would be easy for the Drakh to start using ships the minute they get there:

And, again, the [season five arc] was there when it didn't seem to be: this whole thing started when the *raids started to take place*, which goes back quite a ways.

I didn't say the Drakh had nothing to do with it, just that there's no direct connection between the normal criminal raiders and the Drakh nor with the Drazi backed raiders and the control pods. Both groups were operating at the same time and both were taking advantage of the same situation, that's about it.

Slightly off topic, but I do wonder why the Drakh don't appear to have a home of their own. I mean they didn't evolve on Z'ha'dum and they defiantly weren't there while the Shadows were sleeping, at least not in force. So where did they hang out before the Icarus blundered in and tripped the proverbial burglary alarm? Did the Vorlons blow it up or had they been nomads for all those centuries? If so then where did they get all those ships? You can't build fleets like that without some form of established infrastructure, even if it's a race of enslaved bronze-tech aliens with keepers on their necks.

 

[JoeD80]

Space is big and there are always raider attacks all over the place by an ever changing parade of criminal cartels and opportunists.

Probably true. However, these particular raids were mentioned by Joe which is why I started to connect the pieces. They aren't mentioned until the Drakh move in to Centauri Prime, but they are shortly after, and it would be easy for the Drakh to start using ships the minute they get there:

And, again, the [season five arc] was there when it didn't seem to be: this whole thing started when the *raids started to take place*, which goes back quite a ways.

I didn't say the Drakh had nothing to do with it, just that there's no direct connection between the normal criminal raiders and the Drakh nor with the Drazi backed raiders and the control pods. Both groups were operating at the same time and both were taking advantage of the same situation, that's about it.

I forgot to mention that the quote from Joe was in specific reference to the control pod episode, which is why I associate "raids starting to take place" in season four with "control pods" because that seemed to be what he was implying. The storylines are more often tied together than a random occurrence of off-screen events. You're right that I forgot the timeline on the Drazi raids though.

I do wonder why the Drakh don't appear to have a home of their own. I mean they didn't evolve on Z'ha'dum and they defiantly weren't there while the Shadows were sleeping, at least not in force. So where did they hang out before the Icarus blundered in and tripped the proverbial burglary alarm? Did the Vorlons blow it up or had they been nomads for all those centuries? If so then where did they get all those ships?

I don't think they went to Z'ha'dum until the signal had been sent out, so they were probably wandering somewhere. Perhaps their ships were seeded around like the Shadow ships?

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

Sadly, one thing held this episode back for me; the scenes between Delenn and Lennier on the damaged White Star. Every time they appeared on screen I felt like shouting at them, "Get out of my Londo episode!" Recently the show has been milking this unrequited love story and each time it shows up the less that I care. It's not even a proper love triangle, it's just a line with a dot looking sadly at it.

I agree. This thread inspired me to watch the last few episodes of S5 on Netflix instant viewing and I had more or less the same reaction. Actually I forwarded past the scenes so that should tell you something.

However, there is a pretty interesting payoff coming to the non-triangle.

 

[Forbin]

"The Last Minbari Virgin" is my favorite 5th season episode.

What about "The 40-Year-Old Minbari?"

Haven't seen it, but it makes less sense to me, 'cause hyzmarca was describing plot points I remember from the film The Last American Virgin. And ya kinda need the word Virgin in there for the joke to be funny.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

His final conversation with G'Kar as the "real" Londo was a lovely moment, it's one of my favourite from the show. To watch him walk away from that and into his doom...

I think it might be my very favourite moment. I started crying the first time I watched it.

 

[TheGodBen]

From this point of the Garabaldi needs to get laid subplot and the Lenier really needs to get laid subplot both swing into high gear and take center stage, eventually intersecting when the two travel together to a planet populated entirely by prostitutes where they get into several wacky adventures that prevent them from actually having sex with anyone. Or something like that.

Lenier really does need to get laid.

The sad thing is that Enterprise actually had an episode like that when Trip and Malcolm went to Risa. I must admit, this show has been a considerable step up from that.

However, there is a pretty interesting payoff coming to the non-triangle.

Sheridan and Delenn's kid travels back in time from the future and reveals that he is Lennier?! What a twist! What a deeply disturbing twist.

I think it might be my very favourite moment. I started crying the first time I watched it.

I'm a bit too manly for something like that to happen to me, clearly, but there is a small chance that my eyes were beginning to water. A very small chance. It almost certainly didn't happen, so I don't know why I've brought it up.


The Wheel of Fire (***)

As the title episode for the season I was expecting something more epic, so perhaps that influenced my judgement. I imagined that some disaster would happen that threatened the galaxy, instead this episode introduced plot elements that I cannot imagine will be resolved by the finale.

Firstly, there's the plot about Garibaldi's alcoholism. I've enjoyed the arc up to this point, but the conclusion of it here comes across like an after-school special about why people drink. Lochley's little speech in particular made me want to turn off the TV and go back to reading about Francoist Spain. (I was interested in learning more about a fellow EU country, okay?) The start of the episode has Sheridan telling Garibaldi that he suspected he was drinking for some time, which means that Sheridan felt that Garibaldi wasn't up to the task of alerting the White Star fleet to prevent the war with the Centauri, but he still gave him that important job. It's becoming plainly obvious why Sheridan is considered a poor President.

Speaking of Sheridan, he and Delenn are having a baby. This came as a huge shock, except for the fact that I knew this was going to happen ever since War Without End. Sheridan also knew, but I'll accept his shock as the reality of the situation setting in.

The main plot was about Lyta turning into a terrorist and scaring everyone by threatening to break a crowd into some sort of musical number. Luckily, Sheridan put a gun to her head and saved us all from the horror. He's not such a bad President after all. The set-up here would have been more interesting were it not being set 2 years after the show ends. Perhaps the movies will follow up on it because the show almost certainly wont; there's only 3 episodes left, two of which are about Newtonian mechanics and the finale is about nocturnal animals.

 

[Jan]

I'm a bit too manly for something like that to happen to me, clearly, but there is a small chance that my eyes were beginning to water. A very small chance. It almost certainly didn't happen, so I don't know why I've brought it up.

Yeah...we'll see about that...

Jan

 

[Deranged Nasat]

The main plot was about Lyta turning into a terrorist and scaring everyone by threatening to break a crowd into some sort of musical number. Luckily, Sheridan put a gun to her head and saved us all from the horror. He's not such a bad President after all.

Babylon Five: The Musical!

I'd pay good money to see it.