5x011 The Lodger (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!!

[The]

Not a rewrite; it was in the original draft. And it's not a made up rumour by a sad fan; Gareth Roberts revealed it in a DWM interview. So much for "The Lodger is as it was created to be". I didn't say I heard it as a rumour, I said it as though it was factual, and you still dismissed it out of hand merely because you'd not heard it before.

Of course I did. Why would I believe some random internet critic with widely varying degrees of objectivity and perspective? For all I know, you made it up yourself. It may still be fiction, as I've neither read nor heard of this interview. I won't ask for a link, as it's in a magazine. But, for all I know, you could still be just making it up right now.

So you still think I've made it up? I suppose effectively calling me a fanboy wanker is still better than your usual tactic of calling someone a twat and tagging a smiley on the end.

Now, now...where am I being nasty to you? Other than not immediately accepting everything you say as the word of fact?

Besides, I think after our last discussion about Eccleston, you already know what I think of you...

However, if that is true, it really lowers my opinion of Roberts' writing and ideas. I can think of a dozen better ideas that bring back a nobody like "Meglos" (wasn't he just a disease, anyway?) Talk about lame fanwank...

Roberts is a rubbish writer. It's not news.

Maybe that is immediately true to you, personally. But, there are plenty of people in the world that disagree. I, in fact, really love The Lodger (saved by the lack of ridiculous fanwank) and The Unicorn and the Wasp (the most fun episode of Doctor Who since Love & Monsters...except for the Peter Kay bit...). The Shakespeare Code was weaksauce, imo. But, that's only because it dealt with some silly witches, Martha's fawning, and an overacting Tennant.

Free your mind, Bones. That might lead to being tolerable of other things in life...

 

[Bacl]

The Doctor's ignorance on humans, human customs, and even what century he was in made no sense to me.

People keep saying this, and I'd like to offer something...

Have you ever had a History professor who confused dates, or jumbled up names? Maybe she or he is getting on in years (like the Doctor) or a bit of an excitable eccentric (also, like the Doctor). Either way, this person is still an absolute expert on their subject, they just happen to make the error of once and awhile getting some things momentarily mixed up.

The Doctor knows pretty much everything about everything. Must be hard to keep all that stuff straight. Yeah, he spends a lot of his time on Earth, in the 15th century, then to 21st, then to 17th, then 100 BC, and on, and on. Now he's just gotten dumped unexpectedly in 2010 and he needs to, on the spot, be fully prepped for every social nicety of the humans of that little island in that one year. I can see why he'd get a few things wrong.

ALso, keep in mind that the Doctor HAS ADMITTED to causing distractions to keep people from focusing on things he doesn't want them to. Rule 1: The Doctor lies. He didn't want Craig going upstairs, or questioning him on where he's from, or touching the 'rot'. Maybe if he acts in a way that confuses and distracts Craig he'd be able to keep Craig from putting his nose where it might get snipped off.

When my old but brilliant, absolutely brilliant, History professor dropped the exams on the floor or jumbled up the margin settings for MLA format at first, some people laughed. But I knew that he'd just been at it a long time and knew a great many things so much so that little things like whether MLA was 1.5 or 1 inch margins was easily bumbled.

I feel the same way about the Doctor. Do you know how many ways people greet each other today? My Chilean friend kisses everyone on the cheeks each time she says hello and goody bye. Think of all the countries and cultures that are just today, and now imagine every time in history and every planet in the cosmos.

The Doctor did pretty damn good.

 

[Marc]

one other thing that struck me - The Doctor use a headbutt to initiate the memory transference. Now I was under the impression that headbutts (aka a Liverpool kiss) couldn't be shown on TV in the U.K?

Urban legend or have they changed the rules?

 

[David cgc]

The Doctor's ignorance on humans, human customs, and even what century he was in made no sense to me.

People keep saying this, and I'd like to offer something...

Have you ever had a History professor who confused dates, or jumbled up names? Maybe she or he is getting on in years (like the Doctor) or a bit of an excitable eccentric (also, like the Doctor). Either way, this person is still an absolute expert on their subject, they just happen to make the error of once and awhile getting some things momentarily mixed up.

The Doctor knows pretty much everything about everything. Must be hard to keep all that stuff straight. Yeah, he spends a lot of his time on Earth, in the 15th century, then to 21st, then to 17th, then 100 BC, and on, and on. Now he's just gotten dumped unexpectedly in 2010 and he needs to, on the spot, be fully prepped for every social nicety of the humans of that little island in that one year. I can see why he'd get a few things wrong.

Something I'd like people to consider is how well he manages to blend in anywhere else. Come on, was the Doctor really worse in "The Lodger" in 2010 England than he was in pre-Revolutionary France in "The Girl in the Fireplace?" Really? Cheek-kissing is worse than wearing a tie around your forehead, showing off exotic fruits, wearing sneakers, and wearing sunglasses indoors at night at a ballroom reception for Louis XV? Or how about in 1860s Wales in "The Unquiet Dead?" Prancing around in his leather jacket and slobbering over Dickens like a Trekkie that just met Shatner? Or how about (deleted scene, but too good an example to pass up) when he was singing ABBA while he was shaving in 1912 in "Human Nature" after he'd brainwashed himself to fit in perfectly?

But we don't notice how massively inappropriate he is because one, that's the fun of Doctor Who, and two, like we really know the day to day social mores back in England times.

 

[Gov Kodos]

one other thing that struck me - The Doctor use a headbutt to initiate the memory transference. Now I was under the impression that headbutts (aka a Liverpool kiss) couldn't be shown on TV in the U.K?

Urban legend or have they changed the rules?

Or they just make an exception for headbutting Cordon and yelling at him to shut up. That was just hysterical. I'd love to see the Doctor do it to Davros at their next run in.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

one other thing that struck me - The Doctor use a headbutt to initiate the memory transference. Now I was under the impression that headbutts (aka a Liverpool kiss) couldn't be shown on TV in the U.K?

Urban legend or have they changed the rules?

There's no real hard and fast rules on that, but they're often cut out of things rated PG by the BBFC. I think the guideline is things such as headbutts and knife attacks, things which are easy imitated by kids, shouldn't be shown when it can be reasonably expected that young children are watching alone.

 

[Starkers]

It probably helped that the headbutt was shown as being really painful for both of them

I wonder if this is a Timelord tradition? I have visions of students at the Academy headbutting each other to catch up on missed lectures...

 

[Gov Kodos]

Perhaps the Timelords wear those cowls so they can perform "The Headbutt of Rasilon"

 

[Mr Light]

^ I bet that's what the next season finale is about.

 

[Marc]

It probably helped that the headbutt was shown as being really painful for both of them

I wonder if this is a Timelord tradition? I have visions of students at the Academy headbutting each other to catch up on missed lectures...

Maybe when at the Academy but the Mature timelords do it by touching at the temple c.f The Three Doctors "Contact".

But maybe that doesn't work with non-Galifreyans.

The Doctor has used touch telepathy and similar in the novels but have we seen other examples on screen?

 

[David cgc]

He read Rennet's mind that way in "The Girl in the Fireplace," and, of course, wiped Donna's memory in "Journey's End."

 

[The]

As he mentioned during the scene, he needed to info-dump the reality of what was going on into the dude's mind. AND he needed to believe him and understand he was there to help. So, he just SHOT his mind as one quick stab into dude's head. Twice. LOL!

 

[Stevil2001]

It probably helped that the headbutt was shown as being really painful for both of them

I wonder if this is a Timelord tradition? I have visions of students at the Academy headbutting each other to catch up on missed lectures...

Maybe when at the Academy but the Mature timelords do it by touching at the temple c.f The Three Doctors "Contact".

For what it's worth, the audio dramas always seemed to assume that "contact" could only be done between multiple incarnations of the same Time Lord: it's only used in The Sirens of Time, Minuet in Hell, and Project: Lazarus, and only between the Doctor and himself.

 

[Worf2DS9]

The Doctor's ignorance on humans, human customs, and even what century he was in made no sense to me.

Personally, his "ignorance amuses me."

 

[The Wormhole]

The Doctor's ignorance on humans, human customs, and even what century he was in made no sense to me.

People keep saying this, and I'd like to offer something...

Have you ever had a History professor who confused dates, or jumbled up names? Maybe she or he is getting on in years (like the Doctor) or a bit of an excitable eccentric (also, like the Doctor). Either way, this person is still an absolute expert on their subject, they just happen to make the error of once and awhile getting some things momentarily mixed up.

The Doctor knows pretty much everything about everything. Must be hard to keep all that stuff straight. Yeah, he spends a lot of his time on Earth, in the 15th century, then to 21st, then to 17th, then 100 BC, and on, and on. Now he's just gotten dumped unexpectedly in 2010 and he needs to, on the spot, be fully prepped for every social nicety of the humans of that little island in that one year. I can see why he'd get a few things wrong.

Okay, but consider this: a die hard Star Trek fan is somehow sent to the Trekverse among a group of Klingons. Can you imagine if this fan started talking to the Klingons about logic, quoting the Rules of Acquisition, reminding them about the Prime Directive, asking questions about the Tal Shiar, or calling the Klingon commander "Gul"? Wouldn't that be the most unusual thing ever? You wouldn't expect such blatant ignorance about Star Trek from a Trekkie. The same applies to the Doctor, Earth is to him what Star Trek is to a Trekkie, therefore to see such blatant ignorace about it from him is outy of place and distracting.

The Doctor's ignorance on humans, human customs, and even what century he was in made no sense to me.

People keep saying this, and I'd like to offer something...

Have you ever had a History professor who confused dates, or jumbled up names? Maybe she or he is getting on in years (like the Doctor) or a bit of an excitable eccentric (also, like the Doctor). Either way, this person is still an absolute expert on their subject, they just happen to make the error of once and awhile getting some things momentarily mixed up.

The Doctor knows pretty much everything about everything. Must be hard to keep all that stuff straight. Yeah, he spends a lot of his time on Earth, in the 15th century, then to 21st, then to 17th, then 100 BC, and on, and on. Now he's just gotten dumped unexpectedly in 2010 and he needs to, on the spot, be fully prepped for every social nicety of the humans of that little island in that one year. I can see why he'd get a few things wrong.

Something I'd like people to consider is how well he manages to blend in anywhere else. Come on, was the Doctor really worse in "The Lodger" in 2010 England than he was in pre-Revolutionary France in "The Girl in the Fireplace?" Really? Cheek-kissing is worse than wearing a tie around your forehead, showing off exotic fruits, wearing sneakers, and wearing sunglasses indoors at night at a ballroom reception for Louis XV? Or how about in 1860s Wales in "The Unquiet Dead?" Prancing around in his leather jacket and slobbering over Dickens like a Trekkie that just met Shatner? Or how about (deleted scene, but too good an example to pass up) when he was singing ABBA while he was shaving in 1912 in "Human Nature" after he'd brainwashed himself to fit in perfectly?

But we don't notice how massively inappropriate he is because one, that's the fun of Doctor Who, and two, like we really know the day to day social mores back in England times.

Those examples are usually limited one per episode, and since everyone who meets him will quickly learn the Doctor is a bit eccentric, than they probably write off all his quirks under that excuse.

His behaviour in The Lodger, he seemed to lack any kind of knowledge whatsoever. He thought football was "the game with the stick," completely misunderstood what what his teammate meant by the term "annhilate" (though he did figure it out), the cheek kissing, and so on. I mean really, I get they're trying to be comedic, but seeing the universe's smartest man not knowing anything about his second home isn't really all that funny.

 

[Bones2]

Of course I did. Why would I believe some random internet critic with widely varying degrees of objectivity and perspective? For all I know, you made it up yourself. It may still be fiction, as I've neither read nor heard of this interview. I won't ask for a link, as it's in a magazine. But, for all I know, you could still be just making it up right now.

So you still think I've made it up? I suppose effectively calling me a fanboy wanker is still better than your usual tactic of calling someone a twat and tagging a smiley on the end.

Now, now...where am I being nasty to you? Other than not immediately accepting everything you say as the word of fact?

I make a point of saying where something is a rumour. I said it as a fact, which it is, but you still went off into a tirade about how a sad fanboy must have made it up.

Besides, I think after our last discussion about Eccleston, you already know what I think of you...

Yes, though my abiding memory of that topic is you throwing a hissy fit after getting warned for your blatantly unacceptable behaviour and saying you were leaving forever. Which lasted for about a day.

Free your mind, Bones. That might lead to being tolerable of other things in life...

Err...what? My finding The Lodger shite is down to me having a closed mind? Despite my having explained my reasons for disliking it? Right-o.

 

[The]

I make a point of saying where something is a rumour. I said it as a fact, which it is, but you still went off into a tirade about how a sad fanboy must have made it up.

I see. And where in that did you decide the sad fanboy was you, and not the person you heard the rumor from? You're stretching.

Besides, I think after our last discussion about Eccleston, you already know what I think of you...

Yes, though my abiding memory of that topic is you throwing a hissy fit after getting warned for your blatantly unacceptable behaviour and saying you were leaving forever. Which lasted for about a day.

I imagine it would be, since you select the reality you wish to accept. Most people like you do that. That's okay. As I said, you know exactly what I think. So, my point was made.

And btw, I don't believe I ever said I was "leaving forever". Nice hyperbole. Your modus operandi, of course...

Err...what? My finding The Lodger shite is down to me having a closed mind? Despite my having explained my reasons for disliking it? Right-o.

Explaining how or why your mind is closed does not justify the fact that it is. You find The Lodger "shite" because you personally believe you are the final end-all judge of Doctor Who, and will not tolerate any transgression of your personal, predetermined limits. You "explain" you don't like The Doctor supposedly not knowing how humans operate on a domestic, interpersonal level. Yet, when others offer you a probable rationale on how this is, and how it could be misinterpreted as him not understanding humans (which is not at all what it was), you refuse to budge from your predetermined opinion.

I could go on, but what would be the point? You will never open your mind to other perspectives, and nothing I or anyone else says will change that...

 

[Captain Pike]

Sorry to necro this thread, but can I just say that despite the clumsy and at times heavy-handed writing in this episode, in re-evaluation this story is still a decent showcase for Matt Smith's brilliantly quirky doctor.. There are some dumb bits, and it's not the best script either, but Smith really lifts it to being still quite entertaining. That is all..

 

[Starkers]

I think the one thing that lets it down is the same thing that lets a lot of new Who episodes down; a great mystery/setup that turns out to be less interesting than you expected once everything is resolved.

 

[DAK]

I agree with you CP. For me, it would have been terrible and unwatchable with just about anyone else (especially Tennant). Matt Smith could sit and read me the phone book and I'd be entertained.