Trek 5's Rock Creatures.

[ConRefit79]

I just saw Doctor Who: The Fires of Pompeii. The Rock Creatures in that episode were pretty good. Paramount expects us to believe that they could not afford to add Shatner's. If this TV show could do it, why couldn't Paramount?

The Rock Creatures and shuttle scenes would have been the only effects that had to be re-created. Many of the other bad effects could be replaced with stock footage. Good editing could have removed some of the worst humor and production gaffes(ie Deck 78).

 

[Gorn Captain]

I agree.

Which would have reduced the number of flaws with this film to approximately 9000.

 

[ConRefit79]

A little improvement is better than none. They improved ST:TMP, but I still find ST:FF to be more fun.

 

[Mjuice]

I'm sure they could afford it. They could afford a lot of things. However being a soulless corporation they only do things that they think will make them money, which of course is a shame. Anyway I'm sure the BBC actually has a lot bigger budget allocated to a completely new episode of Doctor Who than Paramount does for a DVD release of a not particularly succesfull 20 year old film.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Just watch Galaxy Quest. The rock monster in that is cooler than anything they could CG over STV's floating head.

The fan who can't enjoy a film until it's been "fixed" with CG decades later is watching it wrong. If you don't like STV as it is, no amount of editing and CG will save it.

"Deck 78" wasn't a mistake, btw. People told Shatner the way ships are laid out in Trek, but he did it anyway. It was a choice .

 

[ConRefit79]

The fan who can't enjoy a film until it's been "fixed" with CG decades later is watching it wrong. If you don't like STV as it is, no amount of editing and CG will save it.

I enjoy the film just fine. But Shatner wanted to finish it. Because of Paramount, the film was rushed to completion. So they chose a bad FX company. Because of Paramount, some dumb humor was forced into the script. Because of Paramount, there was not enough money to complete some key scenes of the film. They spent millions on TMP then went back and did a directors cut.
I don't have a problem with the Search for God part. Anyone who watched TOS, knows they took on many false gods.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I posed this question from STV to a non-fan... "What does God need with a starship?" Her response: "He doesn't need a starship! He's F***ing God!"

 

[Therin of Andor]

They spent millions on TMP then went back and did a directors cut.

Yes, but even that wasn't an easy road. A re-cut theatrical version of TMP was being mooted in "Starlog" since 1980! TMP made many millions of dollars in first release. ST V barely hit respectable numbers.

No amount of rock creatures would save the ending of ST V.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Paramount expects us to believe that they could not afford to add Shatner's. If this TV show could do it, why couldn't Paramount?

You're comparing the SPFX in a TV show made for airing in April 2008 with ST V's two-disc DVD release of 2003?

Many of the other bad effects could be replaced with stock footage.

The stock footage of a Klingon bird of prey exploding (ST VI) in "Generations" continues to cause much fan anger today.

Good editing could have removed some of the worst humor and production gaffes(ie Deck 78).

Shatner liked the humor in ST V - including the "humor" of Kirk and McCoy balanced on Spock's jet boots and passing Deck 78 at fast speed. In a true Director's Edition, he'd insist on keeping those scenes.

 

[Captrek]

Did somebody say rock creature?

The stock footage of a Klingon bird of prey exploding (ST VI) in "Generations" continues to cause much fan anger today.

Doesn’t TWOK’s Kobayashi Maru simulation reuse Klingon Battle footage from TMP? So what?

 

[Dukhat]

Doesn’t TWOK’s Kobayashi Maru simulation reuse Klingon Battle footage from TMP? So what?

The difference is that in "Generations," the Duras sisters were supposed to have gotten an new Klingon ship, one that was supposedly more of a match to the Enterprise-D (and hence, making the Enterprise's destruction make more sense). Instead, to save money the scrawny BoP was reused, along with the stock footage of it exploding.

So in the former, stock footage was used to depict exactly what it was meant to depict: a simulation involving Klingon battlecruisers. In "Generations," the script was altered to cater to the reuse of a 20+ year old filming model and stock footage in order to save a few budget dollars while at the same time sacrificing story logic.

 

[ConRefit79]

I understand they did the Directors cut 5yrs before the Dr. Who show. My point was, if a TV budget could do decent CGI rock creatures, surely a new directors cut could afford it.

As for reusing stock footage, we're only talking about some dumb going to warp and BOP firing shots. The shuttle shots would have to be new.

Besides, you know there will be another one sooner or later for some if not all the movies. Paramount will milk this product for all its worth. They'll either do it for Blue Ray or whatever follows.

 

[Dukhat]

Besides, you know there will be another one sooner or later for some if not all the movies. Paramount will milk this product for all its worth. They'll either do it for Blue Ray or whatever follows.

I'm fairly certain that Paramount has no interest whatsoever in redoing the visual effects for Star Trek V. And it's already out on BluRay.

 

[Captrek]

Besides, you know there will be another one sooner or later for some if not all the movies. Paramount will milk this product for all its worth. They'll either do it for Blue Ray or whatever follows.

I'm fairly certain that Paramount has no interest whatsoever in redoing the visual effects for Star Trek V. And it's already out on BluRay.

Yeah, but it’s not out in 3D yet.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Doesn’t TWOK’s Kobayashi Maru simulation reuse Klingon Battle footage from TMP? So what?

Yes, but for some reason, the stock footage explosion used in "Generations" really rubs the FX fans the wrong way. Different eras, different audiences, different expectations.

Yeah, but it’s not out in 3D yet.

Yeah, like that'll really improve Shatner's baby.

 

[Captrek]

For the most part, I regard 3D as a gimmick and don’t particularly care for it, but I enjoyed Avatar in 3D and am intrigued by the idea of traveling into Vejur in 3D. I don’t know much about the technology for converting existing 2D film into 3D images, so maybe somebody with more knowledge than I can comment on the prospects for a proper 3D version of TMP.

 

[Captrek]

Doesn’t TWOK’s Kobayashi Maru simulation reuse Klingon Battle footage from TMP? So what?

The difference is that in "Generations," the Duras sisters were supposed to have gotten an new Klingon ship, one that was supposedly more of a match to the Enterprise-D (and hence, making the Enterprise's destruction make more sense). Instead, to save money the scrawny BoP was reused, along with the stock footage of it exploding.

So in the former, stock footage was used to depict exactly what it was meant to depict: a simulation involving Klingon battlecruisers.

I watched The Deadly Years this morning and the KM scenario appears to be lifted from the climactic confrontation in that episode with few changes. In TDY, the Enterprise violates the Romulan Neutral Zone and is surrounded by Romulans and attacked. When Commodore Stocker, in command of the Enterprise, tries to hail the Romulans to explain the intrusion, the Romulans refuse communications and Chekov states, “The Romulans do not take captives,” foreshadowing Kirk’s “Klingons don’t take prisoners” line in TWOK.

In the TV series, Klingons made a habit of taking prisoners and there was never any mention of a Klingon Neutral Zone. I’m wondering if the KM may have been conceived with Romulans in mind and then changed to Klingons for the sake of reusing the footage from TMP. Anybody know?

 

[Therin of Andor]

In the TV series, Klingons made a habit of taking prisoners

And in ST III.

and there was never any mention of a Klingon Neutral Zone. I’m wondering if the KM may have been conceived with Romulans in mind and then changed to Klingons for the sake of reusing the footage from TMP. Anybody know?

They were at liberty to use the TMP Klingon vessels as Romulan ships anyway, since similar trade agreements had happened in TOS. Yes, there were early rumours that the KM simulation involved Romulan ships, not Klingons, but remember that there was to have been mileage made with Saavik being half-Romulan, so I think that may have influenced an early change. You don't want Saavik having to battle her ancestors. For motion pictures, you have to shed all baggage that doesn't progress the story being told; the general public would think "Klingons" when seeing the TMP stock footage. And yeah, "Klingon Neutral Zone" was coined as a result of the switch.

As for ST III, "Return to Genesis" was a script treatment pitching Romulans and their cloaking bird of of prey into the action. Then, a script draft had Kruge as a Klingon pirate who'd stolen Romulan property. Then came the shooting draft where the Romulans were right out the story. this "Klingon cloaking device" and "Klingon bird of prey" coined. Also explains Valkris not being concerned about dying to protect her spying venture; in TOS ritual suicide was more a Romulan thing.

 

[Captrek]

In the TV series, Klingons made a habit of taking prisoners

And in ST III.

For that matter, in ST VI, Klingons accept surrender. That decision is difficult to explain.

Chang is part of a conspiracy to instigate a war between the IKE and the UPF. So he accepts the Enterprise’s surrender, allows Kirk and McCoy to beam over, arrests them, and hatches one of cinema’s worst evil schemes to have them killed on Rura Penthe. Wouldn’t it have been simpler and much more effective just to ignore the surrender and destroy the Enterprise? That’s assuming Chang is in command of Qo'noS One at the time of the Enterprise’s surrender. Maybe not, but Kerla is a hawk, Azetbur has not yet been named to any position of authority, and Gorkon is in no condition to be taking sitreps and giving orders.

Any thoughts? Info from the novelization, maybe? Who made the call to accept surrender, and why?

 

[ConRefit79]

For that matter, in ST VI, Klingons accept surrender. That decision is difficult to explain.

I'm guessing Klingons were used in KM for STWOK and Star Trek, because there was a recent war and several skirmishes with them. As for them not taking prisoners, in the STTSFS, they wanted Genesis secrets. In STTUC, Chang was conspiring with SF members, one who was on board Enterprise. I think they knew Kirk & Spock would surrender to try and avoid a war. So they could use the show trial to stop the peace talks. That backfired, so they decided to kill the Fed Pres.