My problem with Deep Space Nine...

[Kinggodzillak]

Bad BillJ! Bad!

She's not only my fave actress on the show but probably my fave actress of all time ever, and not just because I'm absolutely head-over-heels in wub with her.

See, it's like this - a little-known fact about the Star Trek universe is that parents give their children the surname 'Kir' if they're particularly awesome, then stick an extra letter on the end of it to denote an exact grade of awesomeness. Hence we have James T Kirk, who as we all know is the coolest guy who ever lived and yet is only a grade K level of awesomeness.

Thus Kira Nerys is eleven levels of awesome up from him, at grade A, y'see, making her the most awesome Trek character ever. That's fact, that is. I did the maths. And an awesome character requires an awesome actress, hence Nana.

As for the voice...if you met her at a con and she asked after you by dropping her voice to a husky whisper, flashing her eyebrows at you and asked "How you doin'?" you would not say that her voice is annoying. In fact, you would not be capable of saying anything.

 

[Praxius]

...is Nana Visitor.

She has to be one of the most horrific actresses I've ever seen on screen. Every time I hear her voice I'm reminded of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer has seizures when he hears the voice of Mary Hart from Entertainment Tonight.

Absolutely ruins any entertainment value I get from the show.

Your loss I suppose.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Well opinions really do vary, because I thought Nana Visitor was FABULOUS as Kira and one of the better actors on the show who delivered consistently good performances. Alexander Siddig wasn't so good the first season, Terry Farrell was often bland, Avery Brooks could be OTT a lot, but Visitor was always solid and believable and handled the evolution of her character very well, whether you liked the character or not. And for the record, I did. Kira was my favorite character during the show's run. I wanted to be like her, all tough and strong and take no prisoners, heh. It's the OP's loss if they couldn't see how good she was, but hey, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

 

[jwb]

Funny, I always thought Rene Auberjonois was the weak link.

No, I'm joking! Really, don't get mad.

Anyway, I think Kira and Nana are fantastic. Originally I was disappointed that Ensign Ro wasn't on the show, but now I know that's only because it would have meant less work for me - I wouldn't have had to get to know the Bajoran character, because I already would have. Looking back, the show wouldn't have been as good with Ro because she wouldn't have opposed Starfleet. As for an actress, I don't think they could have done any better than Visitor.

 

[Mr. Scott]

I didn't mind Nana Visitor except for her ridiculous stage name.

 

[Trek_princess]

Which, conversely, is my reaction to Jadzia the Klingon Party Girl (TM). She just grates on me and seems like a composite of people in my life that I couldn't stand.

I didn't like Farrell as Jadzia-the-Klingon-Party-Girl, it just seemed out of character for her. Overall, I didn't think that Farrell was bad.

And I certainly don't think Visitor did a bad job, either.

Someone mentioned that early Siddig was bad, but I disagree - his character is immature and annoying at first, but the acting is solid.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

And I certainly don't think Visitor did a bad job, either.

Someone mentioned that early Siddig was bad, but I disagree - his character is immature and annoying at first, but the acting is solid.

See, I think that both of these actors have one thing in common (besides that fact that they were married and have a child together IRL, that is) - I think that both of their characters were written in the beginning to be sort of INTENTIONALLY extreme -

* Kira was written intentionally hostile because Bajor had just emerged from the Cardassian Occupation and her status as Resistance Fighter called for her to be uncompromising, tough, aggressive, and a rabid advocate for Bajor's complete independence (including independence from the Federation). Remember, at the opening of the show, Kira didn't even want the Federation THERE.

* Bashir was written intentionally brash and immature since he was a young doctor who had always succeeded at everything he had ever done and knew very well he was alot smarter than pretty much everyone. His weak point, of course, where his social skills. Which, by the way, is the case with MANY really smart people who are extremely confident of their professional abilities.

By starting these characters off where they did, they allowed some great opportunity for growth on both their parts - growth which, I might add, was one of the more interested components of their characters throughout the 7 seasons of the show.

That is what makes DS9 so great - our heroes are FLAWED heroes, right from the start. And when you set them up as flawed heroes, there is a lot more you can do with them. I mean, besides fly around the galaxy and preach at everyone else about how wonderful you are.

 

[flemm]

Someone mentioned that early Siddig was bad, but I disagree - his character is immature and annoying at first, but the acting is solid.

I think Siddig is mostly fine as Bashir from early on, I actually find his goofy nature more endearing on repeat viewings of the early episodes than I initially did. Sisko, Kira, Bashir, Odo, Quark... all these characters basically work on the same principle of being flawed from the outset, with O'Brien being the everyman of the bunch, and Dax, at least initially, as the wise old soul that accompanies them on their journey.

When Bashir has to act out of character in the early seasons, for whatever reason, the results are a bit painful. In The Passenger, notably, I can't imagine what he or the director were thinking. As I recall there is at least one other similar occasion in the early seasons.

 

[Trek_princess]

The Passenger[/I], notably, I can't imagine what he or the director were thinking. As I recall there is at least one other similar occasion in the early seasons.

Yeah, "The Passenger" is rough. Good story idea, but Siddig isn't very convincing as "possessed Bashir".

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Someone mentioned that early Siddig was bad, but I disagree - his character is immature and annoying at first, but the acting is solid.

Two words: Rao Vantika.

EEEEK, that was bad acting!!!!!!

 

[flemm]

Two words: Rao Vantika.

EEEEK, that was bad acting!!!!!!

That's The Passenger, and yeah, I dunno what happened there

 

[Tiberius]

Avery a bad actor? He's one of the best I've ever seen? His Joran was spine chilling!

 

[CorporalClegg]

As I said in another thread, her problem was exposition. She was bloody awful at it. And, unfortunately, one of the biggest problems with Berman-era Trek was the excessive amount of exposition. However, when she actually had to act, she was brilliant.

I have to say, though, I actually think Armin was the best of the main cast. I can never understand why he doesn't get more props in these threads.

I didn't mind Nana Visitor except for her ridiculous stage name.

 

[flemm]

As I said in another thread, her problem was exposition. She was bloody awful at it.

Can you think of an example? This is not something I've ever noticed in particular. Do you mean things like technobabble or explanations for what other ships are doing in the battle, that sort of thing?

...when she actually had to act, she was brilliant.

Indeed, which is why she was called upon to actually act much more often than most Trek regulars, though Stewart and Auberjonois are notable exceptions.

Shimmerman is often great as Quark, but he gets saddled with some of the series' least popular (and sometimes quite terrible) material in the form of Ferengi episodes, which explains why he is not cited more often in these types of threads (I think).

 

[DevilEyes]

...when she actually had to act, she was brilliant.

Indeed, which is why she was called upon to actually act much more often than most Trek regulars, though Stewart and Auberjonois are notable exceptions.

Shimmerman is often great as Quark, but he gets saddled with some of the series' least popular (and sometimes quite terrible) material in the form of Ferengi episodes, which explains why he is not cited more often in these types of threads (I think).

Shimerman was definitely one of the best actors on the show. He was also one of the few who hit all the right notes right from the start, from the pilot and his (unscripted) laughter at being told he's a community leader. Even though so many people hate Ferengi episodes, I think most people agree that Quark was an awesome character.

This reminds me of the poll about Best acting on DS9... I was surprised that Robinson won the poll so convincingly - yes, he was great, but no more than several other people on the show, and his job was easier than some others since he was never saddled with bad writing and was always given great lines. Of course, every character is very dependent on good writing, but Garak is one of those characters who works almost as well on paper (or computer screen) when you're reading his dialogue, because the dialogue is just that good. With some other characters... it doesn't always work, you read the dialogue and you aren't as impressed as when you are watching the actor delivering those lines.

 

[flemm]

I was surprised that Robinson won the poll so convincingly - yes, he was great, but no more than several other people on the show...

It can't say it really surprises me, since to a large extent a poll like that will be a tweaked version of a "which is your favorite character" poll. Garak is popular among fans of the show (with good reason), especially the more hardcore forum-going ones, and will therefore do very well in a poll like this.

Andrew Robinson's acting was certainly very good for the most part, but did not outclass people like Shimmerman, Auberjonois, Visitor, Alaimo and Meaney by any means. Brooks is more erratic, but at his best certainly deserves to be mentioned right alongside those others. Robinson is actually guilty on occasion of the kind of awkward pauses and wierd emphasis that Brooks is sometimes derided for.

Garak definitely benefited from only appearing when the writers had something important for him to do, as you say, and I tend to think that in hindsight Quark might have worked very well as a semi-regular for similar reasons.

With some other characters... it doesn't always work, you read the dialogue and you aren't as impressed as when you are watching the actor delivering those lines.

That's true. In the case of Quark, this is a character who is very well-written as part of the ensemble, but who then has to struggle mightily with some really bad material in his own episodes. It's a pretty unique case in that sense, perhaps somewhat comparable to Jadzia, but more extreme. There's a whole litany of very mediocre to outright bad episodes that Shimmerman is forced to carry: Family Business, Prophet Motive, Bar Association, Ferengi Love Songs, Profit and Lace, etc. Shimmerman seldom got the material he deserved in the Quark-oriented shows.

 

[Cepstrum]

...is Nana Visitor.

She has to be one of the most horrific actresses I've ever seen on screen. Every time I hear her voice I'm reminded of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer has seizures when he hears the voice of Mary Hart from Entertainment Tonight.

Absolutely ruins any entertainment value I get from the show.

The only thing I didn't like about Kira/Visitor was her shoulder pads.


Oh, and the fake sneezing during her pregancy.

 

[Too Much Fun]

I would have agreed with the person who started this thread if the show had only lasted three seasons, but I think both the character of Kira and Nana Visitor's acting became considerably more appealing in "Starship Down" when she bonded with Sisko.

For the first few seasons, I thought Kira was just an infuriating blowhard, always complaining and arguing with people. I really, really wished the producers would kill her off. Once she started to show some humanity and sense of humour, the show became significantly less frustrating.

 

[Ensign Johnson]

I liked Kira right from the start, I thought it was pretty obvious that her hostile attitude was just a smokescreen. TV shows seem to love characters (usually female characters) that are outwardly cold or angry that turn out to be warm and fuzzy on the inside (Ling and Nell off Ally McBeal are good examples).

I think Major Kira being very angry at the start of the series made sense, as others have mentioned Bajor was finally free from the Cardassians and probably didn't appreciate the Federation interfering. Also Kira joined the resistance when she was in her teens, when she wanted to join she was told she was too young, too small so she probably felt she had a lot to prove. Its no wonder she acts the way she does, she had to be tough all her life and it was probably difficult to shake that attitude. I thought it was very interesting watching her change to a softer Kira that was more willing to let people in.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

Really?

Not Terry Farrell? Because I always figured her for the show's weak link.

Agreed. Terry is a looker, not a strong actress....