Is anyone else sick and tired of unlockable content in games?

[Holdfast]

One reason I don't bother with "proper" video games any more (beyond the cost) is locked content that requires ridiculous amounts of time and grinding to access. I like something I can dip in and out of for 5-10 minutes at a time (30 mins tops) and lets me access the whole game mechanics/characters/content. I don't mind some random bonus images or alternative endings being hidden being a lock requiring hours and hours of playing, but game mechanics, characters and content should all be unlockable over the course of a reasonably competent player completing the game. I don't expect it all open to me at the start, but by the time I finish the game, yes I do expect it all to be unlocked. I shouldn't have to get x million number of special kinds of kill or collect y thousand hidden objects or whatever, to be able to play all the game's content. Playing through the game normally should give me all the toys.

I think the success of "casual" gaming demonstrates there are quite a lot of players out there with a similar approach to video games.

 

[BigFoot]

^ What's wrong with trophies and achievements?

A number of things.

- Multiplayer achievements are inaccessible to people who do not wish to play online or lack the skill to compete effectively.

- Multiplayer achievements also often cause players to become disruptive in their attempts to gain said achievement. A notable example being Pro Evolution Soccer 6 where players would attempt to get the various achievements for winning matches online by exploiting a bug in the game's pause system that would force your opponent to quit, thus giving you the win.

- Achievements often revolve around completing tasks to unlock items - so all of the problems with unlockables apply.

- They also often entail doing things that have little to do with actually progressing in the game.

- They cause players to waste time thinking up ways of easily gaining the achievement instead of enjoying the game.

Effectively, they turn gaming in to an exercise in gaining the most achievements and not having the most fun which is what it should be.

Imagine, for instance, you had achievements for watching films. The kind of mentality achievements create would result in people leaving their DVD players playing all day while they went out, just so they could have more achievements than their friends, ignoring the fact that they haven't actually watched the film or appreciated it.

There's an achievement for ensuring everyone survives the suicide mission in Mass Effect 2. I ensured they survived because I cared about the characters and didn't want them to die. It's a bit sad that others just followed some guide on GameFAQs to get 1,000 points, probably skipped all the dialogue and rushed through the game.

^ What's wrong with trophies and achievements?

I don't know if this is the case for Hermiod, but I get annoyed by online-based Trophies/Achievements. A lot of them are utterly ridiculous.

I'm a pretty hardcore gamer. I own a 360, and a PS3, and I usually have 3 or 4 games on the go at once. As a result of that, I don't have time to dedicate the number of hours required to get 1million XP on Resistance 2, or get into the top 4 Honor Roll on Killzone 2.

That means I have a bunch of games that I've not been able to 100%, because of the ridiculous targets set by the devs, who expect you to play one game to death in order to achieve them.

I've always said that the online Trophies/Achievements should be optional, or at least not contribute to getting the 1000G/Platinum Trophy. Call of Duty manages to make all the Trophies/Achievements relate to the campaign/co-op, instead of having a bunch of daft XP targets, so why can't everyone else do the same?

You know, I can appreciate all that. However, if you guys don't like trophies just ignore them. It's not like you actually have to collect them. I have the Platinum trophy (equivalent to 1000 points on the 360) in a few PS3 titles. However I only go for it in games which I really enjoy and where it's a huge grind or anything like that. I have way more games with anywhere between 30% and 75% then I do ones that are 100% complete. The others that either don't interest me enough to go for 100%, or are just too hard to get (either because of difficulty or because they require way too much time) I just get what I get and that's it.

So yeah, I really don't see the problem. Unless you're so anal that you need to have 100% in every game you play.

 

[Servo]

You know, I can appreciate all that. However, if you guys don't like trophies just ignore them. It's not like you actually have to collect them.

I do like Trophies/Achievements. Gaming is my passion, and I like the feeling of satisfaction I get when I 100% a game. Trophies/Achievements should take skill to get, and shouldn't be an encouragement to sit there and grind stats til the cows come home.

Unless you're so anal that you need to have 100% in every game you play.

So, because I enjoy completing games to 100%, I'm anal? Thanks.

 

[BigFoot]

^ See I enjoy getting 100% in certain games as well. However if getting 100% would take way too much effort, I just don't give a crap.

And "anal" may have been a bit harsh. If it came out that way, I apologize. However you do have to admit that if someone wants to get 100% in EVERY SINGLE game that could be considered a bit... well, anal.

But yeah, getting to 100% in same games is like almost impossible. White Knight Chronicles is the first game that comes to mind. I beat the game and got like 5% of all the trophies. I believe it takes at least 500 hours to platinum that game which is just insane.

 

[Timby]

To make matters worse with the original Rock Band, you had to play on Medium difficulty to unlock all the songs.

I don't mean this in any offensive or attacking way -- but didn't you criticize Rock Band because it could only be played with a special controller, instead of your standard pad, so you couldn't play it on your bed facing the television?

Maybe the current breed of rhythm games aren't for you.

(My wife and I still can't play above Medium on Rock Band. I'm learning, though.)

 

[Aragorn]

I hate unlockables. I hate achievements and trophies too.

Why do you hate achievement points and trophies? They mean absolutely nothing in terms of actually playing the game. I went back through Uncharted 2 to get the platinum trophy, and it has no bearing on my life whatsoever. I enjoy the game enough to go back through it anyway, but nothing would've changed if I hadn't gotten platinum.

To make matters worse with the original Rock Band, you had to play on Medium difficulty to unlock all the songs.

This is a bad example. There's a code to unlock all the songs. And on the 360 anyway, they stay unlocked for quickplay as long as you don't delete the game preferences.

 

[Yoda]

Having to unlock songs in Rock Band was pretty tedious if I recall... didn't you have to play that stupid tour mode or something playing the same songs over and over to unlock the other songs? If I recall they did a little better with Rock Band 2 offering a mode where you could just go through and do all/most of the songs in order... I think in a game like Rock Band you probably should make all the songs available at least in Quick Play, like someone said the later Guitar Hero games do.

The thing is the 'career' mode is mostly tedious in those games. Especially Rock Band.... the 'going on tour' stuff just doesn't feel like a game. A while back my friend had a party and booted up Rock Band 2, and there were only like 20 songs available because he hadn't unlocked anything... and of course they were all the easy and uninteresting songs. The thing with fake plastic guitar games is once you go through the progression on one, and have the skill to take down any song you want on your difficulty of choice, the later games are just tedious. If you're really good at an FPS or something, you can still enjoy the single player because there's a story, and ideally the games are different enough to where you really have to learn new game mechanics to succeed. With fake plastic guitar it's just the same shit, there's really no story integrated into the gameplay, there's really nothing new to see.

I guess with the Beatles game you had their career progression to follow, which was mildly more interesting than the other ones... but still. I don't know, I guess it's probably not a big deal since I can blast through the songs in fairly short order, and if you can't maybe forcing a difficulty curve on to you makes sense... I guess I was just really pissed my friend didn't have anything unlocked that i could 'show off' on , that and his fucking audio sync was horrible so that I'd miss notes I could hit in my sleep

 

[Hermiod]

To make matters worse with the original Rock Band, you had to play on Medium difficulty to unlock all the songs.

I don't mean this in any offensive or attacking way -- but didn't you criticize Rock Band because it could only be played with a special controller, instead of your standard pad, so you couldn't play it on your bed facing the television?

Maybe the current breed of rhythm games aren't for you.

(My wife and I still can't play above Medium on Rock Band. I'm learning, though.)

Yes, I did. Then I gave in and bought a guitar and realised I was wrong. I'm happy to admit that.

Rock Band has appeal as a simple pick up and play party game as well as appealing to the hardcore who can 100% every song on Expert. If you buy the game for a bit of silly fun at Christmas you're going to be pissed off that you have to use a cheat to unlock the songs you actually wanted to play.

Guitar Hero does this better, since all songs are unlocked for Quick Play but in career you still get that sense of progression.

 

[Aragorn]

^ You a big fan of the Guitar Hero charting too? Gonna pick up Guitar Hero 6? They're totally changing things up... with their story mode!

 

[Hermiod]

^Why am I getting bashed here? Guitar Hero does some things well. When, however, your playing the actual game Rock Band wins hands down. I'm not a musician at all, but GH just feels wrong.

 

[Rett Mikhal]

I'm not bashing you, Hermoid. I agree with everything you said so much I think you're my new best friend.

Here's a question. If games like Smash Brothers and Rock Band are party games than why are things locked? What happens when you bring the game to a friend's house? I'm not sure if memory cards still work that way (I seem to recall them becoming completely useless around the Xbox's reign), but I'm pretty sure they don't because that would mean you could copy data and not have to grind.

I have actually gotten very mad at game developers because something like this happened. I don't personally play rock band, but my friends came over to our dorm with the newest version and it only had so many songs available. Unacceptable. Like I originally said, just offer a 'party' version for an extra dollar with everything online and not a single person on Earth will even think of touching the non-unlocked version. The point is to PLAY the game!

What's the real incentive to play a game like Forza for an extended period of time if every track, car, and part is available to use from square one?

Well, let me riddle you this. What's the incentive to pay for something you can't use 100% of? F-Zero 64 came with a code that unlocked every car and every track, instead of having to grind through it by completing the circuit with EVERY CAR you had (including the bad ones). That was fan-freaking-tastic and I never, ever, ever would have gone from rental to purchase if that code wasn't included.

Collecting every DK Coin in order to access the Lost World in DKC 2 was fantastic. I love opening up bonus levels as a result of completing extra challenges. The key word here is "challenge", if the unlockable is unlocked through tedious grind I will snap the god damn game in half. I also hate unlocking costumes; I want something gameplay related.

See the difference there is, that was fun, and continued the story. That was the 'real' ending. To get to the secret world was tough, to beat the secret world was REALLY tough, and to see the real ending with a perfect score was an achievement. The best part was both the 'real' and 'fake' endings still worked and you were satisfied no matter what.

Compare that to getting the 'real' ending of Metroid Prime. If you find every single missile tank, energy tank, upgrade, scan every single FREAKING THING in the game, and basically hash out the game into a hollow shell you get three extra seconds tacked on where you sort of get to see Samus' face. Or you could just watch it on Youtube. The challenge is turned into time consuming grind that isn't fun and doesn't enhance the game like extra levels and minigames did, and the reward is pathetic. I, personally, think it is absolutely sadistic to hide the 'real' endings of games. Hiding easter eggs like Dixie and Diddy Kong beating Samus, Link and Mario for the number one spot, that's fine, but hiding content just because you didn't beat the game in a certain amount of time while following a GameFAQ? C'mon.

I don't think anyone has touched upon the ultimate sin, and that is locked game modes. Ghost Recon for the Xbox (NOT 2, NOT GRAW, just GR) is one of my favorite games of all time but the unlockables are impossible. A lot of them are really fun, like beating missions on certain difficulties, or only with M16s, and they unlock new, interesting weapons.

But ALL the multiplayer game modes (ALL OF THEM!!) are locked until you do the last few challenges. OK, odd, but they can't be bad, right?

25. Unlock Domination Game Type Complete M15 Red Square in Firefight on Elite, using only a
sniper.

26. Unlock Siege Game Type Complete M05 Embassy in Firefight on Elite, using only a sniper.

27. Unlock Cat and Mouse Game Type Complete M06 Castle in Firefight on Elite, using only a
sniper.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! Just so I can play via system link or split screen with my friends I need to do that? And when they say only a sniper, they mean ONLY A SNIPER. Instead of taking six men in two teams of three, you only get one guy. No grenades, no pistols, not even extra ammunition. Also, they want you to use the worst sniper rifle in the game which has the slowest recoil compensation, the slowest firing rate, and the shorted scope and the least damage. If you miss a shot, you are gone. In fact, if you don't kill them in one shot, you're gone. I've had the game a long time, and I still have not had the patience to do these challenges. Besides, my friends have moved on from playing that game by now. If only we could have played it when we bought it!!

Someone really needs to get flogged for that one, as Yahtzee said it so eloquently.

 

[Marten]

I don't mind single player things being unlockable, but multi player sure is annoying.

 

[Yoda]

One of the Ghost Recon games, I think GRAW had the worst achievement ever. Something like "Reach 1st place in the multiplayer leaderboard"

That game had the worst multi achievements ever... yeah, the concept was new at the time, but I don't see how they could've thought that was a good idea.

 

[Servo]

CoD: World at War had two achievements relating to the MP - one for completing your first prestige level, and one for completing the tenth level. Neither gave you any gamer points, and so didn't affect you getting the 1000G in the SP and Co-Op campaigns. They just look pretty in your achievement list.

That's the way it should be done. Well done to Treyarch. Let's hope they do something similar with Black Ops.

 

[Rii]

So, because I enjoy completing games to 100%, I'm anal? Thanks.

Pretty much. Learn to love it.

 

[firehawk12]

Has anyone brought up the insidious practice of selling unlocks to you via DLC?

 

[Hermiod]

What's the real incentive to play a game like Forza for an extended period of time if every track, car, and part is available to use from square one?

I thought the incentive was the fun involved in driving really fast cars that you can customise to your heart's content on complex and challenging tracks?

Why do you hate achievement points and trophies? They mean absolutely nothing in terms of actually playing the game. I went back through Uncharted 2 to get the platinum trophy, and it has no bearing on my life whatsoever. I enjoy the game enough to go back through it anyway, but nothing would've changed if I hadn't gotten platinum.

See my list of reasons above. Aside from anything else, achievements disrupt multiplayer. Too many people looking to "boost" for achievements.

So, because I enjoy completing games to 100%, I'm anal? Thanks.

"Completing" a game doesn't mean getting 100%, it means reaching the conclusion of the game's story.

Has anyone brought up the insidious practice of selling unlocks to you via DLC?

That problem is easily solved - get rid of the unlockables.

 

[Arrqh]

So, because I enjoy completing games to 100%, I'm anal? Thanks.

"Completing" a game doesn't mean getting 100%, it means reaching the conclusion of the game's story.

Obviously that depends on both the game and the expectations of it's audience; to blithely proclaim that completing a game means reaching the end of a story when many games don't even have stories and a significant amount of the gamer population don't even care about the stories that do exist is misplaced.

I appreciate that achievements and the like don't float your boat; generally they don't do it for me either and I just ignore them. But you're arguing from a position that the way you play games is the "right" one and since this is such a subjective topic then you can't possibly be correct. You said before that achievements are bad because they distracted from the game being fun but quite obviously a lot of people find the achievements themselves and working towards them fun. Just because you don't derive enjoyment out of them does not mean that others do not. The reason that achievements are everywhere now is because a lot of people do enjoy them.

On multiplayer: people will always find a way to disrupt it for other players if possible. Achievements are not the cause here. Do you seriously think in your Soccer game example that people would stop exploiting a bug if the achievement wasn't there? Removing them will not seriously affect how other people behave in online games and if the behavior of random people online bothers you then you should either play with people whom you know or just skip the whole thing as it'll just be more trouble then it's worth. People grief others because they can, not for an achievement.

 

[Hermiod]

^Would you care to show me the post where I demanded that everyone agree with me ?

I'm stating a personal opinion, not carving commandments in to stone.

 

[captcalhoun]

i decided a few weeks back i don't care if i never get every single achievement on MW2. i just want to be able to get a decent score and get a few kill-streaks going...

i might try using an SMG instead of an assault rifle some time, but i'm determined to master the M4 even if i never master every damn weapon and every damn attachment...