Job Dedication Is An Alien Quality

[Deks]

You believe people would not become Starfleet officers if they had no financial need to do so?

No, not really, just that *there are still jobs* even in the perfect 24th century utopia, and Starfleet is an example of that. People still have jobs and they get paid (in Federation credits) for doing so.

I don't what this has to do with your earlier statement that Earth being a paradise is a ridiculous notion.

It's just that people keep saying that the Federation has no money and *that* is what I find ridiculous. Partly because there's evidence against it, and partly because it simply wouldn't work.

Stop transposing your mentality onto technologically advanced society that works in different ways.

 

[Sector 7]

The thing with the calculations is kind of weird--so the little alien boy (soon to be forgotten) has a giant holodeck cave that can render impressive virtual reality environments, but it can't do arithmetic?

Still a great scene, though.

His mom, an ADULT, created the cave to cater to his every whim. The kid did not build it, therefore he did not need to be a mathematician to use it. You are using a computer on the internet, but can you build a computer or build the internet? Just something to think upon.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

*Which is still the most (intentionally?) hilarious thing TNG did, having Riker fall in love with a Real Doll.

To be fair, it really is extremely difficult NOT to fall in love with any character played by Carolyn McCormick.

 

[The_Baroness]

Morn was an alien....but when did we ever see HIM at work?

 

[The Wormhole]

Morn was an alien....but when did we ever see HIM at work?

Morn was a courier who was depicted functioning in that capacity in Favor the Bold when he brought a parcel to Sisko conataining information about the Dominion's attention to remove the minefield blocking the wormhole.

Also, in the alternate timeline in The Visitor Morn eventually took over Quark's bar. In the real timeline, Quark was seen leaving instructions with Morn on how to run the bar in his absence in Little Green Men.

 

[Melete]

People would work, though, as anyone who's ever been unemployed will tell you.

In THIS society, yes, because we are not the perfect utopia that the Federation is.

Well, I don't think so. IMHO humans possess an inherent drive to express themselves and impress others through changing their environment. A drive to be creative.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

The thing with the calculations is kind of weird--so the little alien boy (soon to be forgotten) has a giant holodeck cave that can render impressive virtual reality environments, but it can't do arithmetic?

Still a great scene, though.

His mom, an ADULT, created the cave to cater to his every whim. The kid did not build it, therefore he did not need to be a mathematician to use it. You are using a computer on the internet, but can you build a computer or build the internet? Just something to think upon.

And himseld, a CHILD, could use the cave well enough to create incredibly lifelike environments.

Simple mathematics are FAR simpler than what the kid was doing; and a system that can do what we saw should be able to compute a few simple equations.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Barash's environment was effectively the same as the Federation's holodecks. They can automatically create realistic environments - WITHOUT any need for special programming by the user. Anyone can walk into a holodeck (or Barash's cave) and, simply by asking, create whatever environment they want. The fact that Barash was able to do so, does not mean he would be able to do fancy calculations. You don't have to be smart to use a holodeck. All you have to do is tell it what you want.

I, for example, am certainly no programmer of any kind, but I could walk into a holodeck and say "Show me Game 6 of the 2009 World Series" and it would do so - and the result would be almost indistinguishable from reality. That's inherent in the design. It's useable even for complete newbies.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

^ Barash's environment was effectively the same as the Federation's holodecks. They can automatically create realistic environments - WITHOUT any need for special programming by the user. Anyone can walk into a holodeck (or Barash's cave) and, simply by asking, create whatever environment they want. The fact that Barash was able to do so, does not mean he would be able to do fancy calculations. You don't have to be smart to use a holodeck. All you have to do is tell it what you want.

I, for example, am certainly no programmer of any kind, but I could walk into a holodeck and say "Show me Game 6 of the 2009 World Series" and it would do so - and the result would be almost indistinguishable from reality. That's inherent in the design. It's useable even for complete newbies.

And in showing you a realistic duplicate "Game 6 of the 2009 World Series", the holodeck - or the cave - would have to perform some extremely complex mathematical operations.
Not to mention that, if there is no 'Game 6' program in the database, the computer will have to create its own program, filling in the myriad details with something indistinguishable from artistic creativity.

The holodeck - or the cave - not being able to perform a FAR SIMPLER mathematical operation is a PLOT HOLE.
Or is your argument that you can't ask the computer the question? Considering how vague, unspecific "Game 6 from 2009" is, ANYONE could ask the holodeck/cave to perform the mathematical operation - and the machine will understand, not matter how illiterate the language.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And in showing you a realistic duplicate "Game 6 of the 2009 World Series", the holodeck - or the cave - would have to perform some extremely complex mathematical operations.

Which would all be completely transparent to the user.

The holodeck - or the cave - not being able to perform a FAR SIMPLER mathematical operation is a PLOT HOLE.

Agreed. Although I thought we were arguing that the *user* should be able to perform those calculations him/herself, just because the holodeck/cave can. That's not the intent, is it? Barash, for example, didn't invent the cave/holodeck. He was just a user of it.

In the end, I think the problem was that the cave was designed not to respond to spoken commands, but to read the *brain waves* of its users. That may be why its performance suffered. Especially when a second user (Riker) was brought into the mix. Probably there was no performance lag when Barash was the only one in there.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Mr. Laser Beam

The user doesn't have to be able to perform the mathematical operations - the machine can do them easily.

Either Barash was an expert programmer - in which case he should have had no problem making the machine calculate whatever he wished;
Or Barash just gave some unspecific commands to the machine, and the cave filled in the blanks.

It makes no difference whether the commands are given verbally or mentally.

Bottom line - performing mathematical calculations is a VERY simple command for a machine that can do what was seen in the episode; as you agree, it IS a PLOT HOLE that the machine had trouble (needed a long time) in performing simple calculations and had no problem at all in creating and instantly adapting a detailed virtual environment to the reactions of its occupants (mathematically, this is mindboggingly complex).
It's like saying that you're an olympic-level sprinter but you can't walk.

And it makes no sense that the there is time delay in responding to mathematical querries and not when responding to other querries that heavily involve mathematics for the machine.