Job Dedication Is An Alien Quality

[Mr. Laser Beam]

People would work, though, as anyone who's ever been unemployed will tell you.

In THIS society, yes, because we are not the perfect utopia that the Federation is.

 

[StarryEyed]

If you believe the ridiculous notion that Earth is a paradise, then it's no surprise. If nobody has to work, then nobody WILL work.

That is a very simplistic view. The dichotomy between recreation/fun and work is a false one. People probably would not do things they didn't want to do but that isn't to say they would not contribute.

Many people have creative urges that give them great pleasure to indulge in. Some like to work on and build mechanical things. Some gain great satisfaction in helping others. Do you really think former President Carter needed to roll up his sleeves and personally take part in building houses for the poor?

The big difference between contribution on Earth in the Trekverse and contribution on Earth today is that it wouldn't be forced. People would do what they wanted, when they wanted to do it. Nobody would trudge off to work, thinking about how much Mondays suck when they would rather be doing something else.

The idea that the average person has no need for any personal sense of accomplishment and would be content to waste their entire lives in a holodeck is terribly insulting to our species. It's unrealistic too. It's only going to take twenty minutes at most to do the 5 hottest celebrities of your choice in the hot tub. What are you going to do with the rest of your time? Sure, you could relax in a recliner on a beach while Hawaiian goddesses fan you with palm fronds and feed you grapes but its going to get old after awhile. Even the most hedonistic person is going to yearn for something with more substance after a time.

 

[DevilEyes]

^ Well said, StarryEyed.

 

[plynch]

I have found myself constantly, since high school, in this battle between simply a job, and my work. And truly, having a job makes it hard to get much work done! A week or two off here and there just doesn't cut it. Those who can find a way, or a niche, out of that struggle are truly blessed, and I'm not going to be dragged down by anyone who puts their true passions in life in the category of "hobbies", and insists that everyone else "go to work" and do the same as they.
Anyway, it's almost time for me to go make the donuts. It makes the donuts. Resistance is futile.
(Sorry kids, I don't actually make donuts.)

I hope you at least somewhat like whatever the donuts are.

I am a public educator who enjoys my "day job" quite a bit.

Now it is summer vacation. Where do I go every weekday? To school, writing a book, and working on curriculum for next year. I like doing it and it's productive. An hour goes by and I hardly notice. What else would I do all day? Ironically, I was working on a chapter today about valuing one's home and family and had to confess in writing that I was at work on a day I didn't have to be. Life can be funny.

My two cents worth about working when one doesn't have to.

Be well.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Many people have creative urges that give them great pleasure to indulge in. Some like to work on and build mechanical things. Some gain great satisfaction in helping others. Do you really think former President Carter needed to roll up his sleeves and personally take part in building houses for the poor?

Perhaps I should rephrase. Those things might be work, but they are not JOBS. Would you have a job if you didn't need one?

 

[StarryEyed]

Many people have creative urges that give them great pleasure to indulge in. Some like to work on and build mechanical things. Some gain great satisfaction in helping others. Do you really think former President Carter needed to roll up his sleeves and personally take part in building houses for the poor?

Perhaps I should rephrase. Those things might be work, but they are not JOBS. Would you have a job if you didn't need one?

Of course not but of what relevance is a "job" on 24th century Earth in the Trekverse?

I think you may be locked into the idea that one needs to have a "job" to be a contributing member of society. That isn't even true for everyone today although it is probably true for most. The whole paradigm is different in the Trekverse. You don't need a job in order to follow your passions. You can do what ever you want. In that climate, you will probably do something constructive because all of your talents will be unleashed. You need not sell your idea to a corporation, you don't need to compromise your vision to satisfy a sponsor and you don't even have to worry about your idea being practical at all. You simply do what you want to do. You are far more likely to make a meaningful contribution in such an environment than you ever would in a "job."

 

[The Wormhole]

With regard to Sisko. I acknowleged that baseball was his hobby. I merely compared him to Worf and argued that Worf had a more particular interest in the holodeck than the good Captain, judging by his multiple holo combat games. Sisko might go and watch a sports match, but I don't see him doing childish things like fighting monsters in a fantasy world. Worf has also been on leaves of absenses (notice the plural!) for sorting out personal stuff. So how is this guy more dedicated compared to the Emissary?

The only times I remember Worf taking leave of absences are Redemption, Rightful Heir, and The Way of the Warrior. Redemption was actually him switching jobs, and the impression I got from The Way of the Warrior was that all the TNG characters were on extended leave following the destruction of the Enterprise D until the Enterprise E was completed. That leaves Righful Heir as the only true personal time Worf took.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Of course not but of what relevance is a "job" on 24th century Earth in the Trekverse?

You wouldn't call Starfleet a job? A professional vocation? Obviously those still exist.

And like I said, I do not personally believe that the Federation literally does not have money of any kind. They have 'credits', which are the standard monetary unit, but it's not 'money' in the sense of being coins and bills. You have a job in the Federation, you get paid in credits (we've heard about this a lot, even in TNG).

 

[Shatnertage]

Something I find amusing, is that one of the overlooked aspects of "The Visitor" is that Jake Sisko's alternate, crybaby, dadless self didn't do jack for like a decade, unless moping is a vocation, and indeed managed to get only approximately one to two years' worth of work done (his singular novel) in his entire lifetime.

This isn't something unique to Trek--how about the gajillion one-hit wonders out there today?

 

[Kain]

Many of the Alien races in Trek have a standard way of life. Klingons are fighters, always trying to climb up in their hierarchy, Ferengi are Capitalists to the core, and live to obtain money, Vulcans only obey to logic, therefore do whatever has to be done... But what about Humans? Humans do not seem to have a standard way of life in Star Trek. They have replicators, they do not have a moral need to work, like the other races I mentioned, so they work just to have something to do. So it would be understandable for them to be more laid-back about their jobs than other races...

Oh, and, didn't in "First Contact" Picard say that they do not get paid, and work only for the betterment of themselves and of mankind, or something like that?

 

[StarryEyed]

Of course not but of what relevance is a "job" on 24th century Earth in the Trekverse?

You wouldn't call Starfleet a job? A professional vocation? Obviously those still exist.

And like I said, I do not personally believe that the Federation literally does not have money of any kind. They have 'credits', which are the standard monetary unit, but it's not 'money' in the sense of being coins and bills. You have a job in the Federation, you get paid in credits (we've heard about this a lot, even in TNG).

Ah, I see what you're getting at. You believe people would not become Starfleet officers if they had no financial need to do so? I would have to disagree. There is certainly a great deal of prestige in serving in Starfleet and there will be no shortage of people who relish the challenge. I also agree with you in that there is some type of compensation system in place because for instance, you can't replicate water-front property in the Bahamas. So while there may not be a need, there is still incentive.

I don't what this has to do with your earlier statement that Earth being a paradise is a ridiculous notion.

 

[Pavonis]

...you can't replicate water-front property in the Bahamas.

Hmm, not so sure about that.

For one, the Atlantis project would definitely create more water-front property, so there's no reason to think the beaches in the Bahamas are particularly desirable merely for being scarce. And off planet, there's beach front property available on Risa, and Pacifica, and Betazed, etc.

So while real estate can be valuable and coveted, I doubt that there's a great scarcity of land of any kind in the Federation.

 

[DevilEyes]

...you can't replicate water-front property in the Bahamas.

Hmm, not so sure about that.

For one, the Atlantis project would definitely create more water-front property, so there's no reason to think the beaches in the Bahamas are particularly desirable merely for being scarce. And off planet, there's beach front property available on Risa, and Pacifica, and Betazed, etc.

So while real estate can be valuable and coveted, I doubt that there's a great scarcity of land of any kind in the Federation.

Why would you think that? There's a lot of reason to think that land is a valuable property in the Federation. How many planets can there be in the Federation with the life conditions perfect for Humans (or Vulcans, Betazoids, etc.) to live? And is it likely that everyone is potentially OK with moving from Earth to a colony, and that many people would still rather stay on the land, not to mention the planet, where they were born and where their parents lived? What is Earth is overpopulated, which is a real possibility considering the advancements in medicine and living conditions?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You believe people would not become Starfleet officers if they had no financial need to do so?

No, not really, just that *there are still jobs* even in the perfect 24th century utopia, and Starfleet is an example of that. People still have jobs and they get paid (in Federation credits) for doing so.

I don't what this has to do with your earlier statement that Earth being a paradise is a ridiculous notion.

It's just that people keep saying that the Federation has no money and *that* is what I find ridiculous. Partly because there's evidence against it, and partly because it simply wouldn't work.

 

[Pavonis]

Why would you think that? There's a lot of reason to think that land is a valuable property in the Federation. How many planets can there be in the Federation with the life conditions perfect for Humans (or Vulcans, Betazoids, etc.) to live?

Hundreds? Thousands? Even a few dozen would have a lot of beach front property. Not that everyone wants beach front property. Some people would prefer to live in the mountains, or in the city.

And is it likely that everyone is potentially OK with moving from Earth to a colony, and that many people would still rather stay on the land, not to mention the planet, where they were born and where their parents lived?

Not everyone has to be ok with moving from Earth to a colony world. Just those people with a desire to live on "beach front property" (or what have you) that they can't find on Earth and that outweighs their desire to live on Earth.

What is Earth is overpopulated, which is a real possibility considering the advancements in medicine and living conditions?

"Overpopulated" is a relative and rather loaded term. Is the population of Earth in the 24th century at a sustainable level given the technology of the era? Probably, since they say it is a paradise. What is that population level? Who knows! No one has ever said how many people live on Earth in the 24th century.

 

[Myasishchev]

Something I find amusing, is that one of the overlooked aspects of "The Visitor" is that Jake Sisko's alternate, crybaby, dadless self didn't do jack for like a decade, unless moping is a vocation, and indeed managed to get only approximately one to two years' worth of work done (his singular novel) in his entire lifetime.

This isn't something unique to Trek--how about the gajillion one-hit wonders out there today?

True, but they usually have some sort of job before their big hit, even if they coast on it afterward.

It's also less common in novelists, I would think, because the money, especially from a first novel, wouldn't be there to support someone for a lifetime.

 

[Shatnertage]

^^^ I was thinking of Ralph Ellison, who wrote one of the greatest (IMHO) books of the 20th century, but could never finish his second novel. I would never call him a one-hit wonder, but as far as his literary output goes, he really didn't do much after Invisible Man. If you're first was good enough, I guess you could scrape by teaching.

As far as the OP goes, I rewatched "Future Imperfect" last night, and something grumpy future Riker said struck me as relevant: when demurely-bunned future Crusher suggests he go to his quarters to jog his memory, he demands instead to go to work, because "My life is on that bridge."

True, he had plenty of hobbies (trombone, holographic pickups, etc), but the character clearly felt that his work, not his play, defined him.

 

[Myasishchev]

^^^ I was thinking of Ralph Ellison, who wrote one of the greatest (IMHO) books of the 20th century, but could never finish his second novel. I would never call him a one-hit wonder, but as far as his literary output goes, he really didn't do much after Invisible Man. If you're first was good enough, I guess you could scrape by teaching.

As far as the OP goes, I rewatched "Future Imperfect" last night, and something grumpy future Riker said struck me as relevant: when demurely-bunned future Crusher suggests he go to his quarters to jog his memory, he demands instead to go to work, because "My life is on that bridge."

True, he had plenty of hobbies (trombone, holographic pickups, etc), but the character clearly felt that his work, not his play, defined him.

Which is kind of dickish, considering he had a "wife"* and "son."

*Which is still the most (intentionally?) hilarious thing TNG did, having Riker fall in love with a Real Doll.

 

[Shatnertage]

^^^Yeah, if nothing else it showed that, in his own mind at least, the woman he wanted to be with most was part of a "very special program."

In that episode I just love the look on Data's face when Riker's giving him those calculations. It's like, "I'm so in over my head now, you've got no idea."

 

[Myasishchev]

The thing with the calculations is kind of weird--so the little alien boy (soon to be forgotten) has a giant holodeck cave that can render impressive virtual reality environments, but it can't do arithmetic?

Still a great scene, though.