Janeway Dating Lyndsay Ballard... The Heck?

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Right, so I'm rifling through Trek wiki stuff online, and I come across this.

In the episode "Ashes To Ashes", a female crew member returns from the dead and subsequently wants to leave the starship. The episode contained a joke where she goes on a date one evening with Captain Kathryn Janeway who tries unsuccessfully to convince her to stay. It is never explained if this was a romantic evening or a platonic expression of bonding and friendship between two women.

I remember this scene.

Kathryn is dressed in a very lovely dress. It struck me that she was out of uniform, but I chalked it up to the Captain wanting to show her crewman that this was an informal dinner. Then, she burns the pot roast to a crisp and they wind up eating pb&j sandwiches.

But... then... this little exchange struck me as odd.

BALLARD: Did he include your pot roast? I'm sorry. I didn't mean. I can't believe I just said that.
JANEWAY: Why? It was funny. We're not on the Bridge, Lyndsay. You have permission to speak freely.
BALLARD: Do you really mean that?
JANEWAY: I wouldn't have said it otherwise.
BALLARD: Then there's something I've wanted to ask you for a long time. Why me?
JANEWAY: I'm sorry?
BALLARD: Why did you choose me for that away mission?
JANEWAY: Why, I suppose I thought you were best suited for the job.
BALLARD: No, I wasn't. Dilithium extraction was always Lieutenant Torres' specialty and Tuvok had far more experience conducting away missions, but you didn't send either one of them. Was it because they were closer to you?
JANEWAY: You blame me.
BALLARD: No, no, that's not what I meant.
JANEWAY: It's okay.
BALLARD: No, it's not.
JANEWAY: I'm not offended.
BALLARD: No, you don't understand. Never harbour anger toward those who brought you death, for they gave you the chance to live again. In letting me die, Captain, you gave me life. I'm sorry.
JANEWAY: Lyndsay.
BALLARD: I'm sorry. I shouldn't have come.

Reading it a little out of context (like saying the Grand Canyon is a little bigger than most canyons I've seen), it does sort of sound like a lover's quarrel of sorts.

So, folks, what do you think about all of this? I'm fairly certain this was not the intention. Right? Surely, the writers didn't intend for this to come off this way... right?!

 

[Lucky Charms]

I don't really see any subtext in the exchange above. I think it is pretty clear that Ballard does in some way blame Janeway for her death, and is working to have some closure.

As I recall wasn't it suggested that a potential romance could have happened between Ballard and Harry if she had not died?

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Yes, the subtext was clearly in favor of Harry and Ballard.

I would never have thought of anything between Janeway and Ballard, frankly. It was just reading that tidbit in the wiki that made me go and then going back to that scene that made me go... 'huh, subtext but not'.

 

[SRFX]

Is your issue that the inference that Janeway could be lesbian/bi-sexual is out of character, or is the mere possibility of this a problem for you?

 

[JanewayRulz!]

I never saw this as J/B subtext. More like C/E (Captain/Ensign) subtext.

"Why me?"

This is what she's been wondering since she was resurrected as an alien and rediscovered her memories.

"Why me?"

Was it merely luck of the draw that I was picked "to die" that day? Did the Captain not like me and liked Tuvok and Torres too much to put them in danger?

Almost sounds like a thread on TrekBBS, does Janeway "play" favorites?

To my way of thinking, Lindsay is trying to make herself understood to her former Captain and trying to revisit her old haunts that used to intimidate her and score big. Just like she planned to impress Torres in Engineering, she wanted to get that answer from the Captain.

As for the civilian clothes, I suspect Janeway was simply trying to remove the artificial barrier between her and her former crewman, to allow her to vent whatever Lindsay needed to vent "in private". If that was her plan, I'd say she succeeded.

And, not to change the subject, I'd say that Janeway has pretty well answered the signature line of one of our posters.

There really ARE sandwiches in "the future". At least peanut butter and Jelly ones.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Is your issue that the inference that Janeway could be lesbian/bi-sexual is out of character, or is the mere possibility of this a problem for you?

"Issue"?

I would have been thrilled beyond knowing if Janeway had been either a lesbian or bi-sexual. "The mere possibility"? You probably don't know me because I don't post here a lot, but, as a lesbian and an ardent Kate/Kathryn admirer, I have no problem whatsoever with the "mere possibility".

My 'issue' is that of surprise. It never crossed my mind this scene could be interpreted as anything but what JanewayRulz! has posted in her latest (and well said) posting.

I so surprised, in fact, that I hoped over here (where I don't normally post) to see if this thought about Ballard and Janeway had crossed anyone else's mind.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

It never crossed my mind this scene could be interpreted as anything but what JanewayRulz! has posted in her latest (and well said) posting.

Unlike with Captain Janeway...flattery will get you everywhere, Admiral.

Speaking of subtexts on Voyager, although you and I definately see things from different perspectives, you might like one of the new officers on the bridge of an Intrepid class starship in the fan fiction novel I posted last weekend.

http://coffeenebula.com/cgi-bin/board.cgi?read=152021

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

What a fantastic episode that was.

I think it showcases a Janeway element that doesn't always get discussed..it WAS like a date because Janeway has a way of sidling up beside someone she needs to make something right with or understand and making the conversation intimate. She quickly dispenses with the Starfleet Janeway and speaks personally as one human to another. It would be easy to read subtext into this because it's not really a common approach.. can you picture Picard or Sisko doing that? When Picard is forced into some personal intimacy in conversation he acts like it's being squeezed from him against his will, LOL. But Janeway is very comfortable engaging people on this level, though it's always her move and you can see there is a leadership objective to it.

(And who knows, maybe Janeway and Ballard had a dalliance back on earth and she relating to her as an old lover who is now in crisis.)

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

[

I so surprised, in fact, that I hoped over here (where I don't normally post)

You should post here more often Adm Hawthorn.

 

[SRFX]

Is your issue that the inference that Janeway could be lesbian/bi-sexual is out of character, or is the mere possibility of this a problem for you?

"Issue"?

I would have been thrilled beyond knowing if Janeway had been either a lesbian or bi-sexual. "The mere possibility"? You probably don't know me because I don't post here a lot, but, as a lesbian and an ardent Kate/Kathryn admirer, I have no problem whatsoever with the "mere possibility".

My 'issue' is that of surprise. It never crossed my mind this scene could be interpreted as anything but what JanewayRulz! has posted in her latest (and well said) posting.

I so surprised, in fact, that I hoped over here (where I don't normally post) to see if this thought about Ballard and Janeway had crossed anyone else's mind.

Heh, that's fine! I was just trying to make sure I was reading the tone of your post correctly.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

[

I so surprised, in fact, that I hoped over here (where I don't normally post)

You should post here more often Adm Hawthorn.

I know! I really should. My post count is WAY too low.

Is your issue that the inference that Janeway could be lesbian/bi-sexual is out of character, or is the mere possibility of this a problem for you?

"Issue"?

I would have been thrilled beyond knowing if Janeway had been either a lesbian or bi-sexual. "The mere possibility"? You probably don't know me because I don't post here a lot, but, as a lesbian and an ardent Kate/Kathryn admirer, I have no problem whatsoever with the "mere possibility".

My 'issue' is that of surprise. It never crossed my mind this scene could be interpreted as anything but what JanewayRulz! has posted in her latest (and well said) posting.

I so surprised, in fact, that I hoped over here (where I don't normally post) to see if this thought about Ballard and Janeway had crossed anyone else's mind.

Heh, that's fine! I was just trying to make sure I was reading the tone of your post correctly.

*nods* Okay, then...

 

[RobertScorpio]

Is your issue that the inference that Janeway could be lesbian/bi-sexual is out of character, or is the mere possibility of this a problem for you?

"Issue"?

I would have been thrilled beyond knowing if Janeway had been either a lesbian or bi-sexual. "The mere possibility"? You probably don't know me because I don't post here a lot, but, as a lesbian and an ardent Kate/Kathryn admirer, I have no problem whatsoever with the "mere possibility".

My 'issue' is that of surprise. It never crossed my mind this scene could be interpreted as anything but what JanewayRulz! has posted in her latest (and well said) posting.

I so surprised, in fact, that I hoped over here (where I don't normally post) to see if this thought about Ballard and Janeway had crossed anyone else's mind.

And as a guy, I wish they had gone that road too; for selfish reasons of course. VOYAGER, by that point, could have used ANYTHING original...STAR TREK: THE L WORD...

Rob

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

[

I so surprised, in fact, that I hoped over here (where I don't normally post)

You should post here more often Adm Hawthorn.

I know! I really should. My post count is WAY too low.

*snort*

I mean here, in coffee nebula land.

 

[froot]

I thought Ballard was adorable, but I wrote her off as a Mary Sue about 10 minutes into the episode. I was so set against her that I missed any kind of worthwhile interaction she had with anyone.

...I don't know that I've seen "Ashes to Ashes" in years. Perhaps it's time to give it another shot.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

You should post here more often Adm Hawthorn.

I know! I really should. My post count is WAY too low.

*snort*

I mean here, in coffee nebula land.

Yes... I need MORE!

I thought Ballard was adorable, but I wrote her off as a Mary Sue about 10 minutes into the episode. I was so set against her that I missed any kind of worthwhile interaction she had with anyone.

...I don't know that I've seen "Ashes to Ashes" in years. Perhaps it's time to give it another shot.

A Mary Sue? I didn't see that. How so?

 

[DevilEyes]

I thought Ballard was adorable, but I wrote her off as a Mary Sue about 10 minutes into the episode. I was so set against her that I missed any kind of worthwhile interaction she had with anyone.

...I don't know that I've seen "Ashes to Ashes" in years. Perhaps it's time to give it another shot.

A Mary Sue? I didn't see that. How so?

A Mary Sue, by definition, is a wish-fulfillment character (for either the writer or the viewers/readers), inserted into a pre-existing canon, who is adored by everyone, and we're supposed to accept that she (or he, though that would be "Gary Stu" I guess?) is wonderful and great and amazing, even though the character itself is not really anything special and doesn't warrant such admiration.

I'd say that Ballard was pretty much the complete opposite of a "Mary Sue", since she had more charisma and personality than many of the regulars, and she didn't get any excessive praise and adoration or get to do any "wish fulfillment" things... Unless one thinks that a romance with Harry Kim is something every VOY viewer dreams about.

Quite the opposite, I thought that Ballard should have been a recurring character, and I couldn't believe that they made someone with so much spirit and attitude just a love interest for Harry, of all people.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I agree. She would have been a much better love interest for Janeway.

 

[Timewalker]

And, not to change the subject, I'd say that Janeway has pretty well answered the signature line of one of our posters.

There really ARE sandwiches in "the future". At least peanut butter and Jelly ones.

I don't remember which episode came first, but the one in which Seven cooked a meal for the Command crew had her snarking to Tom that if he didn't like her cooking, she could replicate him a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

 

[henbane]

just a convo between two women (it can happen without sexual subtext....lol)!

 

[kimc]

I know! I really should. My post count is WAY too low.

In which universe?