Riker to Jellico: There's no Joy. -Are you #$# kidding me?!

[JarodRussell]

Ironically, weren't they doing the 4-shift thing on DS9 and were all positive about it?

Didn't Picard keep the 4 shift rotation?

Haha, that would be even more awesome, showing that Jellico, Picard and Sisko are kinda on the same wavelength, while Riker is constantly whining.

 

[BenRoethig]

From CHAINS OF COMMAND Part 2-when Riker and Jellico have their long awaited confrontation....

I cannot believe the writers had Riker say that when he's describing that the crew has been wound up tight by Jellico.

I've never been in the military but I have to believe that Jellico is probably more what the real captain of a naval ship would be like compared to the more laid back Picard.

Can you imagine the XO of an aircraft carrier telling his captain that there is no JOY in the crew?

Best part of the storyline was early on when Riker looks to "daddy Picard" for help when he didn't carry out Jellico's orders to have the four crew rotation and Picard says nothing knowing that if Jellico asked for something he should have "Got it Done".

The one of the duties of the XO is to report the crew's morale. also, this is why they rotate CO's and crew. If a crew gets too used to a certain command style, if that CO is promoted or retired and someone with a different style comes in, there could be problems getting used to the new CO.

This does seem like an instance of overwriting a character to make our people look better, but the point remains that Starfleet is not a purely military group.

Yes it is. Exploration is just a primary mission (like it has been in the past) in addition to combat.

 

[sonak]

No, he just said it's not PURELY a military organization, which is pretty hard to debate if you look at TNG. They're obviously not just an outer space version of a military. If you acknowledge that their primary mission is exploration, how can you then say that they're purely military? What country has a military with a primary mission of scientific exploration???Yes, Starfleet has defense as part of their responsibilities, but no less an authority than the creator of Star Trek itself, Gene Roddenberry, didn't like the trend in TWOK and TUC of accentuating Starfleet's more militaristic traits.

In times of war, like the Dominion War, yes they're the ones called on, but they're not just a military.

 

[Tiberius]

You gotta admit that stuffing eith the crew work roster when they were facing a conflict and possible war with the Cardies wasn't really a priority...

 

[RandyS]

And from a civilian management perspective, I'd agree too. If you have a goal (stop the cardies) you don't increase confusion and add risk by complicating that with distractions. Switch shift rotations in the middle of a crisis is asinine.

You also shouldn't expect to roll in and think the entire unit culture will turn around on your whim. People can argue on principle as much as they want, it's all opinion and can't go anywhere, but in reality you don't purposely introduce disruptions without good reason. It reduces productivity. That is a fact, not an opinion. It's is the nature of workforces, military of civilian. Only difference is the military people will keep their mouths shut when around superiors, but let fly when they're alone.

This was precisely my issue. It just didn't make sense for Jellico to disrupt what was a pretty smoothly functioning organisation with a clear sense of hierarchy, especially when facing a major crisis.

Did he have the right? Sure. But that doesn't make it good management style.

Yes, he had the right. But that didn't make him right.

 

[Agenda]

Sisko would have taken Riker apart in that episode, lol.

Sisko would not have had to, because he was a better commander.

 

[Mallory]

This was an awful episode, made watchable only by Ronnie Cox' performance as Jellico. In this episode, I was pulling for Jellico all the way, and felt nothing but contempt for the Enterprise crew.

 

[Shikarnov]

I think Diane Carey explained it best when wrote, in Ship of the Line, that the reason the Klingons have such a difficult time predicting Federation behavior was because there is no cookie-cutter Captain. A Starfleet CO could have come up through security, engineering, sciences, medical, and etc - and each would think very differently about all kinds of situations, from combat to First Contact.

Jellico illustrates this kind of difference brilliantly, and while he's a drastic departure from the CO's we'd seen previously, he's also very competent. The Enterprise crew may have been upset, but they should know they were being tested. Just like Picard was a bossy prick in EAF, so too is Jellico. Maybe, in time, the harsh edges between the crew and CO would have softened as they got used to each other, but, alas, that wasn't to be seen...

 

[Dancing Doctor]

I always interpreted Jellico's behavior as being the fact that he knew his assignment to the be the commanding officer of the Enterprise was temporary, that he was there to do a job, and that as long as the job got done it didn't matter if the crew necessarily liked him.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Ironically, weren't they doing the 4-shift thing on DS9 and were all positive about it?

Didn't Picard keep the 4 shift rotation?

It's never said one way or the other, but since Picard had had the Enterprise running on three shifts before, he'd probably return them to it once he got back.

Honestly, I never got the four shift thing - three makes a lot more sense, eight hours of duty, eight hours of off duty time for personal and social activities, eight hours of sleep. At least as far as I can gather, the way Jellico's four shift schedule worked was that there would be six hours of standard duty, six hours of cross-skill work (Geordi was complaining about his engineers being reassigned to security at the same time Jellico wanted the warp core overhauled in a time frame that required every hand working at it the whole time, meaning other tasks and duties would be put aside), six hours of personal/social time, and six hours of sleep. Aren't we told that eight hours of sleep is ideal for human beings? Granted, the whole crew isn't made up of humans, but still...

As for Sisko, remember that DS9 functioned on the Bajoran clock, which comes to about twenty SIX hours. That doesn't come out evenly in a three-shift pattern but about even (6.5 hours) in a four shift. So based on that particular clock, it's conceivable it works better than the three shift.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Concerning the shift change, I have no idea if the writers were thinking of this, but in fact one of the quickest ways to get an idea of how a new crew will respond under stress is to give them a task they don't particularly want to perform.

 

[Snaploud]

Concerning the shift change, I have no idea if the writers were thinking of this, but in fact one of the quickest ways to get an idea of how a new crew will respond under stress is to give them a task they don't particularly want to perform.

Good point. Jellico might have been trying to figure out the crew weak points in a very short time-frame.

Honestly, though, we don't even know what the four-shift rotation meant. How many shifts within a four-shift rotation will an individual crewmember likely work (one, two?). We really don't have the details.

 

[BenRoethig]

No, he just said it's not PURELY a military organization, which is pretty hard to debate if you look at TNG. They're obviously not just an outer space version of a military. If you acknowledge that their primary mission is exploration, how can you then say that they're purely military? What country has a military with a primary mission of scientific exploration???Yes, Starfleet has defense as part of their responsibilities, but no less an authority than the creator of Star Trek itself, Gene Roddenberry, didn't like the trend in TWOK and TUC of accentuating Starfleet's more militaristic traits.

In times of war, like the Dominion War, yes they're the ones called on, but they're not just a military.

You really don't know much about militaries beyond combat operations or history do you?

First off, you confuse "combat oriented" and military.

Most of the major exploration missions of the last 500 years have been military. Civillians have been usually geared towards the more theoretical sides of science. In fact many of the missions you probably assume are civilian are performed by the Navy, Coast Guard, and Air Force.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Sisko would have taken Riker apart in that episode, lol.

Sisko would not have had to, because he was a better commander.

This was an awful episode, made watchable only by Ronnie Cox' performance as Jellico. In this episode, I was pulling for Jellico all the way, and felt nothing but contempt for the Enterprise crew.

These.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Just watched this two part episode and it's a season six highlight for me and I love Captain Jellico. I look at the conflict between the Enterprise crew and Jellico as just a crew being used and content with their own Captain's ways (remember that Picard had a reputation of being a hardass in the first season) they have come to know Picard and his command style along with what to expect from him. Obviously Jellico's high demand and eye for detail and "getting things done" (Lol) was a little bit of a shock to them. They were thrust into an unknown critical situation with a new Captain and had no time to deal with it. Jellico stated as much to Deanna during their conversation. My favorite scene in the entire two parts is when Jellico tells her to get into a proper uniform!!! I always wondered outside maybe the obvious off screen reasons why Deanna always wore those informal uniforms that we never saw on any of the other female staff.

 

[sbk1234]

Maybe, in time, the harsh edges between the crew and CO would have softened as they got used to each other, but, alas, that wasn't to be seen...

Actually, we did start to see that. The scene with Jellico and LaForge in the shuttle showed a softer side to Jellico where he could relate to the crew.
I, for one, am sorry we didn't get to see more of him. Sure, he may have been a very serious commanding officer, but he was damn skilled, IMHO.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Jellico might have been trying to figure out the crew weak points in a very short time-frame.

And you know what? If that's what the writers meant to convey, I'm gonna stop giving them such a hard time about this episode.

I mean, I still think the regular characters where written as spoiled, whiny nitwits, but the more I think about the episode, the more nuance I can see in the Jellico character.

 

[Nardpuncher]

This was an awful episode, made watchable only by Ronnie Cox' performance as Jellico. In this episode, I was pulling for Jellico all the way, and felt nothing but contempt for the Enterprise crew.

x2!

 

[Arpy]

I kept waiting for an explanation for what the hell was wrong with the regulars. I didn't think there was one ("they were possessed by aliens" wouldn't have helped) but I at least hoped things would get better...that the regular crew would surprise us and we'd see why Jellico was wrong beyond just his style making things miserable for everyone. Though itself very real military concern, nothing happened as a result of it in the episode! Nor did anything come of his dangerous tactics with the Cardassians.

But fine, the episodes needed work; what gets me about these threads is the total lack of loyalty (there's a military virtue) of some people. OBVIOUSLY the writers dropped the ball on this one. OBVIOUSLY Jellico was supposed to be a "villain". In this case one taking over a regular's duties for an episode like that doctor who took over for Crusher to fix Worf's spine in "Ethics" - the one who haphazardly experimented on patients.

Actually, it shouldn't get me at all. I have a feeling the same people, for the most part, who love Jellico have a problem with Picard & Co. even when they're being written well.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

But fine, the episodes needed work; what gets me about these threads is the total lack of loyalty (there's a military virtue) of some people. OBVIOUSLY the writers dropped the ball on this one. OBVIOUSLY Jellico was supposed to be a "villain". In this case one taking over a regular's duties for an episode like that doctor who took over for Crusher to fix Worf's spine in "Ethics" - the one who haphazardly experimented on patients.

The difference, though, between Jellico and Dr. Toby Russell, was that she was never intended to take over for Dr. Crusher - she was there to be a consultant, due to her work and experience in neurogenetic research.

In fact, Dr. Russell went way beyond her authority and role on the ship several times, since she was essentially a guest. Jellico, on the other hand, was specifically placed in command of the Enterprise, with all the rights and responsibilities thereof.

I never got the impression that he was a "villain". I felt more that the Enterprise crew had gotten used to Picard's way of doing things, and were given an unpleasant surprise and change.