Circumstantial Evidence?/Why did spock end up in alt. universe?[Merge]

[Kai Winn]

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

Nero went back in time to 2233. By changing things he created an alternate universe. Surely Spock, who fell into the black hole a few seconds after Nero, should have been altered and be the 2387 product of Nero's new timeline rather than TOS Trek?

that's all very confusing, because in 2233 kirk had moved to tarsus 3 (the conscience of the king), what suggest he must have been born earlier. even if the tos episode got that wrong, it's established that kirk was born in iowa. what was kirk's mom doing aboard the kelvin? how did nero manage to alter happenings before his arrival? it's not so that nero's attack triggered the birth, he made short work of the kelvin.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

that's all very confusing, because in 2233 kirk had moved to tarsus 3 (the conscience of the king), what suggest he must have been born earlier. even if the tos episode got that wrong, it's established that kirk was born in iowa. what was kirk's mom doing aboard the kelvin? how did nero manage to alter happenings before his arrival? it's not so that nero's attack triggered the birth, he made short work of the kelvin.

Kirk was born in 2233, in both timelines (the writers got the year from the 1994 Star Trek Chronology). The Tarsus thing was when he was somewhere around 10-15 years old (and seemingly never happened to alternate Kirk).

There's nothing to say Kirk (prime) was born in Iowa, just that he was raised there.
Although it's possible the Kelvin was en route to Earth, and Nero's attack sent Winona into labour a little prematurely.

 

[Ronald Held]

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

I can see how Kirk J's birth was hasten by the battle.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

That it isn't onscreen shows that Abrams either didn't really know and/or care about the original continuity and/or he was just sloppy.

Or that Spock is becoming quite elderly. They really aged up Nimoy for this outing, including even making his eyes rheumy. I was pleased to see that Nimoy out of makeup, promoting the film, wasn't quite as ancient as his Vulcan counterpart.

I think Nimoy would strongly disagree that Spock was senile in this movie.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

There's nothing to say Kirk (prime) was born in Iowa, just that he was raised there.

Isn't the ST IV quote, to Gillian, "I was born in Iowa, I only work in outer space"?

At one point, the ST 2009 writers were going to have the Kelvin be the Iowa, as a word play on the canonical quote.

I think Nimoy would strongly disagree that Spock was senile in this movie.

Who said "senile"? There is obviously a moment of confusion; he's doing calculations as he speaks, and realises something's definitely changed. At this point, Spock hasn't had an opportunity to work out how many differences Nero's presence has wrought.

I think Nimoy would disagree on most of your opinions on this movie.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

Therin, the STIV line was "No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space".

Nothing to say where he was born.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

the STIV line was "No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in outer space".

Well, I did do a quick Google search on both versions before posting, rather than digging out the DVD. Hence my question mark.

 

[Warped9]

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

He went for a bucket of extra crispy KFC.

 

[I-Am-Zim]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

So, Nero is supposed to be a 24th century Romulan from the TNG-era prime universe. He should look the part.

Again, totally a matter of artistic choice and nothing to do with the plot but for JJ and his team thought they looked better this way.

A point I happen to agree with. GR really should have kept the Romulans ridgeless.

However, they are still supposed to be 24th century TNG-era Romulan. We know what 24th century TNG-era Romulans looked like. These Abrams/Rommies should look the part. If JJA would have us believe that these Rommies are from the original TOS-TNG universe, they should have made them look like they came from that universe. That's the way I see it. YMMV.

Nor do we need any "background" as to why they all shave their heads. They just do, its really no huge deal and to derail a movie with that little bit of information would be funny.

You don't. But I would have liked to have had a little background info on the Darth Maul makeup other than JJA did it 'cuz he's a Star Wars fan. A couple of lines of dialogue wouldn't have hurt.

 

[Ronald Held]

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

There are no KFC franchises in the Prime Universe, or the food slots can't cough up some?
I suppose it is as good as saying he went to "Someplace Else".

 

[M'Sharak]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

So, Nero is supposed to be a 24th century Romulan from the TNG-era prime universe. He should look the part.

Again, totally a matter of artistic choice and nothing to do with the plot but for JJ and his team thought they looked better this way.

A point I happen to agree with. GR really should have kept the Romulans ridgeless.

However, they are still supposed to be 24th century TNG-era Romulan. We know what 24th century TNG-era Romulans looked like. These Abrams/Rommies should look the part. If JJA would have us believe that these Rommies are from the original TOS-TNG universe, they should have made them look like they came from that universe.

Even if the TNG-DS9-VOY Romulan make-up looked ridiculous and was a thoroughly unlikely appearance for a people who had split from the Vulcans a mere six thousand years before? I think a lot of Trek fans were quite happy that we didn't get TNG-looking Romulans.

 

[FarStrider]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

However, they are still supposed to be 24th century TNG-era Romulan. We know what 24th century TNG-era Romulans looked like. These Abrams/Rommies should look the part. If JJA would have us believe that these Rommies are from the original TOS-TNG universe, they should have made them look like they came from that universe. That's the way I see it. YMMV.

Nor do we need any "background" as to why they all shave their heads. They just do, its really no huge deal and to derail a movie with that little bit of information would be funny.

You don't. But I would have liked to have had a little background info on the Darth Maul makeup other than JJA did it 'cuz he's a Star Wars fan. A couple of lines of dialogue wouldn't have hurt.

Were you this upset when Klingons developed a butt on their foreheads? Really. . we know what Klingons looked like in the TOS, and despite the BS story that never made any sense we accepted that Klingons had forehead bumps. . . this is a stupid detail to get hung up up on. . . especially considering that Vulcans don't have ridges, and they are essentially the same species as Romulans. . .

And using being a Star Wars fan as an indictment against Abrams is weak tea, considering that franchise is the defining science fiction/fantasy series for people (mostly men) of a certain age. . .

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

Could anyone imagine Nero with a bowl cut, ridges and those horrific TNG shoulder pads?

And the Kelvin bridge looking like "The Cage", where George Kirk gets the heads-up on Nero's attack from a little paper printer attached to the science station?

Modernized/reimagined visuals in Star Trek XI = awesome.

I loved the modernized TOS look on the Kelvin. My thoughts were "this is what it would have really looked like".

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

Close the rift

Needs rare red matter for that.

Not necessarily. There are many other technobabbly ways to close temporal rifts. We've seen them countless times in the original Trek universe.

No for the love of all that is holy drop the f@#king technobabble nobody wants it back.

and/or blow up Nero's ship.

'Cos we know that's a piece of cake!

Sure it is. Spock is from the 24th century. He should know all about tricobalt bombs and whatever else he would need to blow up the Narada.

Except

1) the materials needed to make these weapons may not exist yet (hence why they wouldn't be used in the 23rd century).

2) It would probably be a bad idea to show an advanced (from a 2233 perspective) federation starship with really advanced and highly destructive weaponry ON THE DOORSTEP OF THE KLINGON BORDER. Did some of you guys forget how the Klingons reacted to Genesis? Remember these aren't the 24th century lets be buddies with the Federation Klingons, these are the 23rd century lets CRUSH the Federation Klingons.

 

[milo bloom]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

I haven't dipped into this forum for a while, and this is precisely why. The thing about the ridges/lack of ridges doesn't really matter and there's onscreen evidence for why they don't matter. The TNG eps where Spock is running around on Romulus. None of the other Romulans notice him as different because of the lack of forehead ridges. Therefore they are an accepted look for Romulans.

Do we need an ENT style story like we got for the Klingons? (Which I don't totally hate, but would have preferred to have been explained as different races like in the novels).

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

Didn't the Enterprise episodes pretty much create the two different races from the novels? I can imagine them getting named "Imperials" and "human fusions" shortly after.

The Romulan ridge thing doesn't need explaining IMO. I liked that underlings on Nero's crew had odd lumps and bumps too.

I like to think that the smooth and ridged Rommies were the upper-crust, high-caste guys who all held prestigeous posotions in the senate and military, and the weirder guys on Nero's crew were the lower-class rabble, with some non-Romulan blood from dumpy conquered farming worlds in their bloodline, thus giving them odd noses and the like.

 

[Talosian]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

Nero comes from a different 24th century to the extent that Star Trek XI is a "reboot" (lord I hate that word), and to that extent only. Beyond that, you just have to take the creators word that Spock and the Romulans came from the original universe and leave it at that. Frankly, there's enough implausibility in any number of TOS or TNG episodes to provide precedent for the implausibility of the Narada or the new Romulans physical appearance or whatever.

 

[Epsilon-9]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

What happened to (startrekrcks) did she get put in “the agony booth”?

As to the timeline of universal Star Trek laws of events being altered, sigh wrong. In about another year or so I would just forget about Star Trek XI (2009) like some bad dream.

Could anyone imagine Nero with a bowl cut, ridges and those horrific TNG shoulder pads?

And the Kelvin bridge looking like "The Cage", where George Kirk gets the heads-up on Nero's attack from a little paper printer attached to the science station?

Modernized/reimagined visuals in Star Trek XI = awesome.

I loved the modernized TOS look on the Kelvin. My thoughts were "this is what it would have really looked like".

Now that’s funny, made me chuckle.

Captain Nero you’re wanted on the bridge, sir. And we have those new shoulder pads that you ordered.

Looked like Nero had some water leaks in his spaceship damn! He needs to call a plumber before, they get flooded!

So, Nero is supposed to be a 24th century Romulan from the TNG-era prime universe. He should look the part.

Again, totally a matter of artistic choice and nothing to do with the plot but for JJ and his team thought they looked better this way.

A point I happen to agree with. GR really should have kept the Romulans ridgeless.

Nor do we need any "background" as to why they all shave their heads. They just do, its really no huge deal and to derail a movie with that little bit of information would be funny.

I’m sure its been mentioned before Star Trek the motion picture shows us a new Klingon then its explained in Star Trek deep space 9, “trials and tribbles” how they became the way they are now.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

What happened to (startrekrcks) did she get put in “the agony booth”?

As to the timeline of universal Star Trek laws of events being altered, sigh wrong. In about another year or so I would just forget about Star Trek XI (2009) like some bad dream.

Could anyone imagine Nero with a bowl cut, ridges and those horrific TNG shoulder pads?

And the Kelvin bridge looking like "The Cage", where George Kirk gets the heads-up on Nero's attack from a little paper printer attached to the science station?

Modernized/reimagined visuals in Star Trek XI = awesome.

I loved the modernized TOS look on the Kelvin. My thoughts were "this is what it would have really looked like".

Now that’s funny, made me chuckle.

Captain Nero you’re wanted on the bridge, sir. And we have those new shoulder pads that you ordered.

Looked like Nero had some water leaks in his spaceship damn! He needs to call a plumber before, they get flooded!

So, Nero is supposed to be a 24th century Romulan from the TNG-era prime universe. He should look the part.

Again, totally a matter of artistic choice and nothing to do with the plot but for JJ and his team thought they looked better this way.

A point I happen to agree with. GR really should have kept the Romulans ridgeless.

Nor do we need any "background" as to why they all shave their heads. They just do, its really no huge deal and to derail a movie with that little bit of information would be funny.

I’m sure its been mentioned before Star Trek the motion picture shows us a new Klingon then its explained in Star Trek deep space 9, “trials and tribbles” how they became the way they are now.

No it wasn't Worf just said the Klingons didn't like to talk about it.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

In the Enterprise two-parter "Affliction" and "Divergance" we meet the human-fusion Klingons for the first time. They're a botched Klingon genetic-engineering experiment based on stolen human augment (i.e. Khan and friends) embryos. That somehow ends up a virus that infects a whole Klingon colony world...