Lost 6x16: "What They Died For"

[davejames]

I thought it was decent but hate what they did with Ben. To have him turn and start bad and just kill people against after everything that has happenned justf elt wrong. Widmore was understandable given what happenned to Alex, but to help the MiB and go after Desmond with him was sort of ridiculous imo.

Also didn't like Richard's death. Seemed totally pointless, and I'm left wondering why he ever even existed.

Yeah after spending a whole episode learning Richard's life story, it does seem like a pretty crappy way to end things.

As for Ben, my feeling was that he was simply trying to find a way to survive til another day (since he knew everyone in the cabin was going to get wiped out). Obviously he didn't have a problem killing Widmore, but in the finale I suspect he'll ultimately find some way to betray Locke and help our people.

Or at least get Locke out of the way so he can challenge Jack as the island's protector.

 

[RoJoHen]

I would be surprised if Richard actually ends up being dead. I think Smokey was just pissed and knocked him over.

 

[Dream]

I would be surprised if Richard actually ends up being dead. I think Smokey was just pissed and knocked him over.

I was kind of surprised by how it was done. Was that supposed to be shocking? It almost funny how he was far he was thrown up.

Richard sure as hell deserved a better death scene than that.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Also didn't like Richard's death. Seemed totally pointless, and I'm left wondering why he ever even existed.

Like a lot of characters on this show he was merely a plot device. He added yet another character to make this universe of LOST have depth and feel like it was populated by a wide variety of interesting people. He also added another perspective on the island and held certain pieces of the puzzle to disseminate to the viewers.

As I've said for quite some time that the way the island would bring people to it and use them for a purpose and then discard them so casually at times when they served that purpose felt like meta-commentary on the part of the writers of how they viewed the characters to a large degree as chess pieces and simply a means to an end in this epic narrative.

I also forgot to add that in last season's finale Ilana posed the question to Richard--"What lies in the shadow of the statue?" and his response in Latin--Ille qui nos omnes servabit which means He who shall protect us. Well Richard never could have known personally what lies in the shadow of the statue because his arrival led to the statue's destruction for the most part so who told him? Jacob? I guess shadow of the statue is broad enough you could argue it is the shadow cast by the remaining portion of it. Anyways I wonder if next week we will see what that means. Is Jack the one who will protect the world from Smokey? And what does lie in the shadow mean? his grave? I figured this season we would see the statue in a flashback where the sun would cast a shadow and voila we'd understand. If it isn't addressed there is yet another dangling mystery or I guess the writers could argue it was just a code with that answer and has no significant meaning which would be a letdown in my opinion.

And if Richard is dead and dead is dead then we never learned what Richard was suppose to do next according to Ilana via Jacob.

 

[Aragorn]

I suppose we won't find out who the mother of Jack's kid is but I'd kinda like to know.

I'm guessing you missed her show's season finale right after Lost?

That's just a wild guess on my part.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I guess in the alternate reality John's dad wasn't the one who conned alternate Sawyer's parents.

 

[Klaus]

I think Richard and Frank are both still alive, and I think Ben is double-crossing Flocke and will end up being the new protector after Jack sacrifices himself to help Ben kill Flocke.

 

[Aragorn]

I guess in the alternate reality John's dad wasn't the one who conned alternate Sawyer's parents.

No, he still is. It's just that now he's a vegetable so James will never find his trail.

 

[pookha]

i sorta suspect in the alt universe either locke's father had some type of conversion and was sincere in his love or he was running the same con on locke he did in the lost verse but the plane crash happened first.

 

[Elemental]

Does anyone know what happened to all the other non-main cast member survivors? They all die? In hiding? The show has really been shifted away from them for the past 3 seasons.

Like who? Pretty much everybody got killed in Season 5 when they got attacked by people with flaming arrows.

Yeah, that's the last I remembered of them. I don't think they all died though - I think many just fled into the jungle and may still be running for all I know.

 

[RoJoHen]

Nah, I think it was the writers' intention to kill them all off at that point.

 

[Elemental]

Above average. Far better than last week's (which wouldn't have been difficult) and even though it was mostly setup it was pretty good setup.

I'm somewhat...disappointed (for want of a better word) at the way Widmore was dealt with this season. He was set up as the big baddie, he gets back to the island, we learn Jacob turned his attitude around (or so Widmore claimed), and then he's offed. Just like that. Very anticlimactic and made his presence this season seem pretty meaningless.

Richard's (apparent) death was if anything even more anticlimactic. A character who seemed to promise a great deal at different stages of the series and he's just flicked out of existence.

Otherwise it was pretty good stuff. Jack getting Jacob's gig was predictable (and kinda funny when I remembered the original concept was for the Jack character to be killed in the pilot ep ) and the further breaking down of the "barriers" (again, lacking a better word) between the island and LA events was fun to see. I suppose we won't find out who the mother of Jack's kid is but I'd kinda like to know.

Hopefully I won't have to wait too long to see the finale. And hopefully no one will blab about it outside this forum until I have.

I agree that Widmore's death was very anticlimactic but I can't say I was surprised. If there's any fault to the show, it's that they've built up so many plot-threads and baddies that I think they have really been having a hard time bringing to an effective close. Ben too seems to have been all but forgotten this season until this episode (aside from the occasional minor plotline such as with Ilana).

It's been kind of difficult to suddenly adjust to Smokie being the big baddy of the series after being little more than just another unanswered question of the previous 5 years. Ditto with Jacob being the ultimate force for good.

 

[Adm. Bonz]

And honestly, for the viewer like me who watched every episode but didn't obsess over every detail.... I think the overall story holds together pretty damn well.

Amen!

 

[Orac Zen]

I suppose we won't find out who the mother of Jack's kid is but I'd kinda like to know.

I'm guessing you missed her show's season finale right after Lost?

That's just a wild guess on my part.

That kinda depends on what country you're watching the show in. Given that the show on here after Lost was Stargate Atlantis I suspect I'm not going to be able to make any guesses.

If there's any fault to the show, it's that they've built up so many plot-threads and baddies that I think they have really been having a hard time bringing to an effective close. Ben too seems to have been all but forgotten this season until this episode (aside from the occasional minor plotline such as with Ilana).

Indeed. There's so much out there that wrapping it all up was pretty much impossible. It's also meant that some people / plot angles all but disappeared, which is unfortunate but probably inevitable with so many characters and so much stuff going on.

And honestly, for the viewer like me who watched every episode but didn't obsess over every detail.... I think the overall story holds together pretty damn well.

Agreed. I never expected to have every question answered but when I rewatched the series earlier this year a lot of dots joined up pretty well. So long as the finale doesn't somehow fall completely flat I'll have enjoyed the ride Lost provided a great deal.

 

[Jenee]

Yeah unfortunately I don't see anymore answers coming on the Dharma and Widmore fronts, even though those were my favorite aspects of the story. They're clearly focused on the biblical good versus evil for the fate of the Island bit at this point. I would still like to know the deal with Jacob/Horace's Cabin, though!

I don't see it as "good" vs "evil".

And, as far as Dharma and Whidmore and all that other ..., it was just a way to get us from season one to season six.

The only other "others" there have really ever been has been Jacob and his brother.

If, at the end of season one, they opened up season two with Jacob and his brother on the beach and then this season ... we'd be going "what the fuck ...?" How does a doctor from LA suddenly decide he's going to take on the protection of this island?

Seasons two through five were all just filler and now we're back to a spooky island and (down to) 4 stranded plane wreck survivors.

 

[Caligula]

And honestly, for the viewer like me who watched every episode but didn't obsess over every detail.... I think the overall story holds together pretty damn well.

Agreed, wholeheartedly.

And, really, it is better that we don't have EVERY SINGLE question answered. Where's the fun in that? I like being able to come up with my own conclusions.

 

[propita]

I kinda like the idea of Ben being the protector of the island--he's sacrificed everything for it and supposedly is willing to stay with it.

And since Ben didn't rat out Miles, I don't think he's all bad. I hope not. Guess it's like a Snape thing with redemption. Which bodes well for society, that many in society still want to believe in redemption, that a person can seriously screw up, but make things right--or as right as s/he can make them again.

 

[Aeon]

I wonder who got Desmond out of the well.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I wonder who got Desmond out of the well.

Probably Jack since that was where they were heading before they had their pow-wow with Jacob.

I agree that Widmore's death was very anticlimactic but I can't say I was surprised. If there's any fault to the show, it's that they've built up so many plot-threads and baddies that I think they have really been having a hard time bringing to an effective close. Ben too seems to have been all but forgotten this season until this episode (aside from the occasional minor plotline such as with Ilana).

And that is what is so disappointing instead of the way they dragged everything out with essentially filler with all the back and forth between the various groups and locations of the main island and hydra island they could have used those episodes to address these much more interesting issues.

Go back and watch season 4 or 5 and that is what season six should have been like--tons of revelations, fast pace, intriguing mysteries, urgency to the narrative, tying off dangling threads and building to a fever-pitch culminating in an epic payoff. So instead of building on what they had developed in S3-5 they just decided to drag out the season, just burning off episodes to kill time mostly until the series finale. They mismanaged their storytelling and those 13 or so episodes were kinda wasted. This was the 6th and final Act of what has essentially been a 6 ACT Story. This should have been the year they peaked--this should have been their crowning achievement.

I think LOST is the best series to come out of the last decade and one of my all time favorites but that doesn't change the fact that I really wanted this final season to knock it out of the park. The writers kept outdoing themselves in S3-5 and then to just sort of half-heartedly ride the final season out was surprising and disappointing. It is like seeing a student who has done A+ work before and is capable of so much more just not apply themselves. Maybe they were burnt out from such a sustained period of high creative output heading into this season?

 

[Agent Richard07]

I thought Sayid got Desmond out.