Whoah, you lost me right there. Explain something? You're actually wondering if the writers of Lost are going to explain something?
Lost 6x16: "What They Died For"
- Thread starter Agent Richard07
- Start date
Whoah, you lost me right there. Explain something? You're actually wondering if the writers of Lost are going to explain something?
I should also mention that this ep changes the premise somewhat of what happens if MiB succeeds. Previously, it was suggested that if MiB succeeds, it would be "the end of everything and everyone", or some such thing. Widmore convinced Jin to help him by telling him that both their daughters would be dead if MiB succeeded. In this ep, MiB bargained with Widmore over Penny's life, which suggests that actually, Widmore doesn't believe that MiB winning would *necessarily* mean the end of all life. At least some people could continue living, even if MiB wins.
So, bottom line, we're going into the finale without really knowing what the stakes are. We don't know what will happen if MiB wins, other than that it's bad, and that it will involve the destruction of the Island.
So, bottom line, we're going into the finale without really knowing what the stakes are. We don't know what will happen if MiB wins, other than that it's bad, and that it will involve the destruction of the Island.
Wow. Awesome episode. Loads of setup for next week's episode. Had a feeling Jack would setup and become the candidate.
I'm hoping Richard isn't dead.
I'm hoping Richard isn't dead.
Really liked this episode, and I particularly enjoyed it as a companion piece to Jacob's tale from last week. I was pretty much ready to just sink into the finale, but have a ridiculously long wait till... Sunday? Really? That quick? 
Above average. I'm not sure if if the episode answered why they died, but it gave a good indication. Pretty much as we expected, that the candidates were in line to replace Jacob to protect the island, specifically the light. I didn't expect that they'd pick the replacement tonight though. Why do I get the feeling that was too easy? I'm guessing that we're near the end of the cycle and that Jack's reign will be short. I guess the list was just those who'd potentially choose to take the job. Crossed out when Jacob felt like they wouldn't freely choose to accept it.
Freedom of choice. If that had been offered to the brother, for him to leave the island, he would've never became the monster.
Didn't expect Whidmore to die in this episode. His return was largely wasted but suspect he was more the vehicle for getting Desmond back to the island. Desmond is what, a plug in case the light goes out? Not sure if I entirely understood that. It sounds like Locke will try to put the light out and as long as Desmond is alive, he still won't be able to escape?
Mr Awe
Freedom of choice. If that had been offered to the brother, for him to leave the island, he would've never became the monster.
Didn't expect Whidmore to die in this episode. His return was largely wasted but suspect he was more the vehicle for getting Desmond back to the island. Desmond is what, a plug in case the light goes out? Not sure if I entirely understood that. It sounds like Locke will try to put the light out and as long as Desmond is alive, he still won't be able to escape?
Mr Awe
Yeah, I'm really hoping this plays a large role in the finale. I'm still expecting a huge twist rather than just a continuation of the ongoing battle. I suspect that Locke wins, Jack's reign is short, and that our characters inherit the "alternate", happier, reality because Jacob somehow never existed. The surviving characters will have to choose this other reality, probably by dying.
This plays into the larger issue of freedom of choice. You can only freely choose when you have all of the information and Lost has constantly been about not having all the info, to say the least! Even Jack didn't have a free choice because he didn't have all of the info before accepting the job. I think that invalidates Jack's decision.
Mr Awe
Jacob may not appear in the finale but I think he'll play a huge role in the outcome. We've learned that Jacob was a very flawed character who was essentially forced into taking the job of island protector. The process and selection criteria for his replacement is pretty flawed. It's just all F'd up basically.
Yet, the story is presented as you either follow Locke or Jacob. I think the big turning point will be when the characters follow neither and do what's best for them. I've said this many times. This will play out in the finale. They won't go with Locke or Jacob. Or maybe a bit from both?
This may lead to the big twist, that the characters decide to blow up the island. Smokey is powered by the light so that might destroy it. It might also somehow prevent Jacob from ever having the ability to travel to the mainland and affect things. Voila, the other timeline is the result.
Mr Awe
"Excellent" from me....but it still seems like there's too much story left to tell, for the time we have left. <sigh!>
Interesting, that so many people think that Hugo will inherit the mantle from Jack...that just doesn't seem right, somehow. Jack was our P.O.V. character in episode one, and if anyone remains in the role of New Protector in the end, it'll be him.
Interesting, that so many people think that Hugo will inherit the mantle from Jack...that just doesn't seem right, somehow. Jack was our P.O.V. character in episode one, and if anyone remains in the role of New Protector in the end, it'll be him.
I don't understand why Widmore would tell MiB anything or why he wouldn't want Ben to hear, apart from the writers not wanting the audience to hear. Makes me wonder if whatever Whidmore told Locke was actually part of the backup plan or if MiB was full of crap and his "blowing up the island" plan is simply some mind game to trick Ben into killing Desmond since blowing up the island and MiB's deal to give Ben the island does not compute.
Anyway, gave it an above average and I can't wait for the final episode next week. Must avoid spoilers for ending at all cost...maybe I'll go live in one of those caves that doesn't have wireless Internet.
Anyway, gave it an above average and I can't wait for the final episode next week. Must avoid spoilers for ending at all cost...maybe I'll go live in one of those caves that doesn't have wireless Internet.
I have something that I'm trying to figure out regarding the Smoke Monster.
Why is it that we have never actually seen Locke turn into the Smoke Monster vica versa? It's always, "Smoke monster shows up, disappears, and then Locke appears from somewhere else." We've never witnessed an actual transformation. Is it a simple matter of budget and CGI effects, or is this being done intentionally (much like the first time we saw "Earth" in BSG and the landmasses were hidden under clouds)?
Is Locke REALLY the Smoke Monster?
Why is it that we have never actually seen Locke turn into the Smoke Monster vica versa? It's always, "Smoke monster shows up, disappears, and then Locke appears from somewhere else." We've never witnessed an actual transformation. Is it a simple matter of budget and CGI effects, or is this being done intentionally (much like the first time we saw "Earth" in BSG and the landmasses were hidden under clouds)?
Is Locke REALLY the Smoke Monster?
I suspect they just don't want to be so obvious, and have it look like a generic scifi movie effect out of the Mummy movies or something.
I don't really mind. Not seeing the process maintains some of the mystery, and makes him seem even MORE creepy somehow.
I don't mind, either, but it's that very mystery that makes me question what's really going on. I'm not 100% convinced that Locke is the Smoke Monster, nor am I 100% convinced that Locke and Christian are the same person, even though that's what we've been told.
What about Locke's mother? We saw what she did to the village of the Others, but I seriously question whether or not she did it by hand? How do we know SHE hasn't been the Smoke Monster all along?
I think I have to side with startrekwatcher on this one. The only reason to have these expectations is because that's just how the human brain works. It has a need to complete patterns and make sense of confusion. If you show Walt dripping wet in the forest talking backwards, people are going to want to know why the hell he was there. If that isn't a "promise", then the writers have failed to understand the fundamentals of what people are perceiving.
I think the producers know all this and are just following this kind of modern storytelling method where you present mysteries but don't ever answer them. I'm not sure why they do this. For shows like this, I've often heard the defense that in real life we don't always get the answers. My response to that is that this is a TV show about a magical island. Fiction should not emulate reality in this way. It should give satisfying answers to proposed mysteries, otherwise it shouldn't present those mysteries at all. It seems like bad storytelling, and they keep making it worse this season.
Essentially what they're doing in some instances is dangling a carrot in front of the viewer, which frankly sucks. I'm still waiting on the finale to be sure, because maybe the questions will be answered to my standards. But I have this feeling that somehow I'll be left unsatisfied in that regard.
I will definitely agree that this season could have been better (most of the island stuff was pretty damn forgettable until now), but to be honest, most of these little mysteries that people have obsessed over for so long I always accepted as being just a reflection of the strange, mysterious nature of the island itself.
I never really expected to get an answer as to where the statue came from, or why Walt was speaking backwards. Most of that stuff was simply to make it clear that this was a mysterious and ancient place that didn't work according to the rules we're used to.
And honestly, for the viewer like me who watched every episode but didn't obsess over every detail.... I think the overall story holds together pretty damn well.
Yeah, I was honestly a bit disappointed that it was Jack, because it was so predictable.
But I thought that Hugo had said "So it's not me" and he sounded disappointed as well. I must have heard wrong.
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S
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Guest
It was a pretty decent episode. Certainly watchable in that nothing stupid happened and it was centered around people we care about.
The end of this season has robbed the show of its sizzle though. The MiB conflict is really underwhelming, there's no sense of urgency... a few weeks ago, something strange happened. I watched the episode, but suddenly found no desire to read up on discussion and speculation about the episode, didn't care if I missed the show on its original airing, had no desire to listen to my usual Lost post-episode podcast, or read in-depth reviews..... the island story is so underwhelming, and it makes so much of the show before it seem meaningless. All it is is people playing 'musical chairs' going from one "camp" to another to another. Nobody acts in a logical manner.
I think they really screwed up by not giving us a clear idea of what happens if MiB gets off of the island. As cliche as it is, even something like an apocalyptic vision or something would help.
Ironically it's the flash-forwards, which I tired of earlier in the season, which are holding my attention. Desmond getting the 'gang' back together with the prison break-out, is the only storyline which feels tense and urgent. It feels like it's leading to something, and going there fast, like a runaway train.
The end of this season has robbed the show of its sizzle though. The MiB conflict is really underwhelming, there's no sense of urgency... a few weeks ago, something strange happened. I watched the episode, but suddenly found no desire to read up on discussion and speculation about the episode, didn't care if I missed the show on its original airing, had no desire to listen to my usual Lost post-episode podcast, or read in-depth reviews..... the island story is so underwhelming, and it makes so much of the show before it seem meaningless. All it is is people playing 'musical chairs' going from one "camp" to another to another. Nobody acts in a logical manner.
I think they really screwed up by not giving us a clear idea of what happens if MiB gets off of the island. As cliche as it is, even something like an apocalyptic vision or something would help.
Ironically it's the flash-forwards, which I tired of earlier in the season, which are holding my attention. Desmond getting the 'gang' back together with the prison break-out, is the only storyline which feels tense and urgent. It feels like it's leading to something, and going there fast, like a runaway train.
I expect when questions are raised they are answered especially when they do have a track record of doing so--just look at S3-5 and what they did answer. So I expected them to continue on that trajectory by adding more questions/mysteries this year and then answering them as the season went on and finish tying up and unifyng everything. They didn't. How it colors my view of the series overall I probably won't know for some time as some distance happens between the series ending and that time.
I never said I hated it. I said that I didn't find this season all that well-polished or organized. It seemed to just stumble towards the end.
Don't blame me for expecting sooooo much more--blame L/C whose high standards of brilliance in S3-5 raised the bar for me as a tv viewer in what I should now expect out of television. This season of LOST was better than just about everything else on tv but it wasn't as good as it should have been. They got lazy and dropped the ball. Same thing happened after season one of Heroes with Kring. Or seasons 1 and first half of 2 with BSG and Moore. It would seem shows of this ilk burn very very bright but burn out quickly. Although LOST managed to stay on top longer than the other two in terms of quality and having a better final season.
Ha ha yeah, there was definitely way too much of that this season. Most of the time it felt like the characters were just wandering aimlessly around the island for no reason at all.
I'd disagree that there's no urgency now though. I think the threat from Locke couldn't be MORE palpable, and it definitely feels like things are starting to ramp up in a big way.
Totally agree. This was probably my biggest problem with the first half of the season. I couldn't remember from week to week who was doing what and who knew different things just because they kept moving around so much. It'll probably be a lot easier to follow when I go back and re-watch it on DVD.
