What do we think of Alien 3?

[Bisz]

Brilliant and cliche are not the same thing. Aliens was a cliche-storm. Alien 3 was complete un-cliche. See how that works?

Fixed .

You change the text that you had quoted from me. Is that allowed? I don't think you are permitted to quote someone and then change the person's quote, are you?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Brilliant and cliche are not the same thing. Aliens was a cliche-storm. Alien 3 was complete un-cliche. See how that works?

Fixed .

You change the text that you had quoted from me. Is that allowed? I don't think you are permitted to quote someone and then change the person's quote, are you?

I think it's only allowed in the TNZ.

 

[Tulin]

Alien4; Ripley, Call and the rest of the pirates land on Earth and presumably go off to become Firefly style adventurers with Ripley as a female Mal Reynolds

Michael Jan Friedman's Aliens novel, Original Sin (which picks up after Alien: Resurrection, a period that Dark Horse has left untouched), is as close to a Firefly novel as you'll get.

Interesting!

I am slowly working my way through the "Aliens" books and I did not know that!

 

[Tulin]

Alien3 was the first movie I'd ever seen where a noticeable number of people disavow that it's canonical - that it really follows Aliens. And I hate to say it, but I have to agree; it is such a mess and it betrays far too much of the story, that it is a worse than useless sequel - it hurts the film that precedes it.

"Disavow that it's canonical"? Pardon me but

I'll just say that Ripley apparently had some very interesting dreams aboard the Sulaco. And is still dreaming. Along with Hicks, Newt, and Bishop. Safely on the way back to Earth.

Prison planets! Cloned aliens! Brad Dourif! The Betty! And now, Aliens and Predators on Earth! What will she dream about next?


That's canon! Nothing onscreen to disprove it!

That's pretty much how I see it, too!

Funny thing is, I went to visit an aunt the other day and we started talking about films(she is a huge film buff!)and we got onto the Aliens films.

Without a word of prompting from me, my 53 year old aunt said,

"The first two are classics, three and four don't exist!"


AWESOME!!!!!!

 

[SilentP]

Fixed .

You change the text that you had quoted from me. Is that allowed? I don't think you are permitted to quote someone and then change the person's quote, are you?

I think it's only allowed in the TNZ.

Well, in the manner in which Anwar did it here, I don't think there's anything against it (do NOT quote me on that one,I could easily be wrong ), since he's altered it as a joke (hence the '') and deliberately drawn attention to the fact he had altered it thusly.

If he had altered what you had said to change what you mean and argued against the misquote, that would definitely be against the rules.

 

[saturn5]

Glad they brought her back in part 4 and who knows, maybe Hicks and Newt were cloned too and they escaped the ship when the bugs broke loose?

Am I the only one who doesn't see Weaver's character in A:R as the same one who dies in Alien 3? I watched the two back to back, and the clone was far too...inhuman to be Ripley. Sure who we saw had Ripley's DNA and memories, but she also had a lot attributes of the Xenomorph, and I'm not just talking the acid blood and physical ability. A lot of her personality seemed to be influenced by Xeno behaviours; not only was she more aggressive, there was a definite predatory and sexual edge to her. Also, would the Ripley we saw sacrifice herself in Alien 3 say with genuine sadness "Sorry" to the Xeno-abomination before killing it.

EDIT: Also, what possible reason would anyone have for cloning Newt or Hicks? All we'd get are complete blanks. The only reason Ripley came back with her memories is because the Xeno-DNA that got blended seemed to have the ability to carry genetic memories.

The reason for cloning Newt and Hicks would be the USM might suspect they too have embryos. They might not retain all their memories but Ripley could teach them.

Good point on Ripley 8, you could argue that the entire movie is her recovering her humanity (the scene where she smiles at the picture of the little girl is especially poignant), the Hybrid chooses human Ripley over the Alien Queen and she chooses humanity over it

 

[SilentP]

The reason for cloning Newt and Hicks would be the USM might suspect they too have embryos. They might not retain all their memories but Ripley could teach them.

Hmmm, I'm trying to remember if Weyland-Yutani got any reports one way or the other as to the fates of Newt and Hicks bodies, but I can't think of anything besides them being told they were dead. I'm sure that the lone survivor would probably end up informing them of their whereabouts.

 

[Anwar]

They checked Newt, there was nothing there.

Hicks was nothing but a totally smashed up torso (this is better seen in the Special Edition of A3), there would've been nowhere for the embryo to be planted.

 

[saturn5]

They checked Newt, there was nothing there.

Hicks was nothing but a totally smashed up torso (this is better seen in the Special Edition of A3), there would've been nowhere for the embryo to be planted.

Well remember, they cloned Ripley from just her blood samples, if Hicks or Newt had been impregnated presumably the embryo would have died with them so it might well be worth USM's trouble to clone them too

 

[Caligula]

Alien 3 should've been epic, but ended up as an epic fail. Until Star Trek: Nemesis came around a decade later, no sequel to a popular franchise had left me feeling more cold and disappointed. Like with the latter film, I prefer to ignore Alien 3's very existence.

 

[Anwar]

Alien 3 should've been epic, but ended up as an epic fail.

Lemme guess, by being a cliche-ridden piss-poor "Aliens invading Earth!" BS story? A3 fits in fine with the Alienverse and got rid of the unneeded extras (Hicks and Newt).

 

[Deckerd]

The yays still have it, despite a spirited defence by the nays.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Alien 3 should've been epic, but ended up as an epic fail.

Lemme guess, by being a cliche-ridden piss-poor "Aliens invading Earth!" BS story? A3 fits in fine with the Alienverse and got rid of the unneeded extras (Hicks and Newt).

By doing what none of the other films did i.e. killing everyone?

 

[saturn5]

Alien 3 should've been epic, but ended up as an epic fail.

Lemme guess, by being a cliche-ridden piss-poor "Aliens invading Earth!" BS story? A3 fits in fine with the Alienverse and got rid of the unneeded extras (Hicks and Newt).

By doing what none of the other films did i.e. killing everyone?

Million different ways to have a great Alien 3, not just 'Aliens invade earth' (solving the mystery of the derelict and spacejockey would have been great) unfortunately Fincher couldn't have done a better job if he'd been trying to ruin the series.
Newt, Hicks and Bishop and the development relationship with Ripley was what Aliens was all about, whilst ST;Nemisis wasn't a great film it didn't ruin your enjoyment of the ST movies that had come before. That's why so many Aliens fans hate A3, they love 1&2 so much and then A3 just goes and ruins it all

 

[Anwar]

[(solving the mystery of the derelict and spacejockey would have been great)

Unnecessary. They work better as mysteries.

Newt, Hicks and Bishop and the development relationship with Ripley was what Aliens was all about,

Aliens was about shooting bugs, while pretending that Rambo-as-a-woman (and not even the well-written Rambo of "First Blood") was having budding relationships with a walking gun prop and a living plot device.

whilst ST;Nemisis wasn't a great film it didn't ruin your enjoyment of the ST movies that had come before. That's why so many Aliens fans hate A3, they love 1&2 so much and then A3 just goes and ruins it all

Because the audience of Aliens can't handle real dark storytelling, random realistic character death, and stories without tons of guns. Sorry that Ripley didn't land on a planet of marines and ran off into the sunset utterly triumphant but that is not what the Alienverse is about.

 

[saturn5]

[(solving the mystery of the derelict and spacejockey would have been great)

Unnecessary. They work better as mysteries.

Newt, Hicks and Bishop and the development relationship with Ripley was what Aliens was all about,

Aliens was about shooting bugs, while pretending that Rambo-as-a-woman (and not even the well-written Rambo of "First Blood") was having budding relationships with a walking gun prop and a living plot device.

whilst ST;Nemisis wasn't a great film it didn't ruin your enjoyment of the ST movies that had come before. That's why so many Aliens fans hate A3, they love 1&2 so much and then A3 just goes and ruins it all

Because the audience of Aliens can't handle real dark storytelling, random realistic character death, and stories without tons of guns. Sorry that Ripley didn't land on a planet of marines and ran off into the sunset utterly triumphant but that is not what the Alienverse is about.

Actually that sounds a pretty good story! Plenty of dark storytelling in Alien/Aliens, lots of realistic character death. Ripley isn't Rambo, she's no soldier she's a strong independent woman who is forced into this incredible situation and brings her formidable game up to the mark. ( That's why we love her and that's why the poster of her rescuing Newt is so iconic).
The characters, Bishop overcoming Ripley's fear of androids, Newt learning to trust again, Hicks trying to keep his team together are excellent and terrific performances by all Alien 3 is the exception, it's the one that betrays the tone of the other films. Alien 3 is the terrible film Aliens and Alien could have been, braindead slasher/gorno in space. I prefer films with action/story/character/entertainment/wit etc, etc

 

[Anwar]

Actually that sounds a pretty good story! Plenty of dark storytelling in Alien/Aliens, lots of realistic character death.

In Alien, yes. Aliens, no.

Ripley isn't Rambo, she's no soldier she's a strong independent woman who is forced into this incredible situation and brings her formidable game up to the mark. ( That's why we love her and that's why the poster of her rescuing Newt is so iconic).

No, it's cause she's turned into a tough soldier stereotype who guns down generic bug bad guys. Alien 3 turned her back into a real human being.

The characters, Bishop overcoming Ripley's fear of androids, Newt learning to trust again, Hicks trying to keep his team together are excellent and terrific performances by all

Terrific performances from the Alien cast, yes. Ripley overcoming her "fear" that didn't exist until Aliens, completely forgetting about her real daughter's death thanks to some random stranger she just met, a bunch of overacting 1-D soldier stereotypes getting slaughtered by generic bad guys bugs.

Alien 3 is the exception, it's the one that betrays the
tone of the other films.

It fits in fine with the first film. It's a restoration the action junkies weren't capable of handling.

I prefer films with action/story/character/entertainment/wit etc, etc

And yet you like Aliens, strange.

 

[Bisz]

I prefer films with action/story/character/entertainment/wit etc, etc

And yet you like Aliens, strange.

Not strange at all seeing as Aliens had all those things where Alien 3 lacked all of them.

Then again, to each his own. Using a ST example since this is a ST forum, there are people out there who think Voyager was the next best thing to sliced bread but DS9 was crap. The notion is just plain silly, the idea is indefensible, but hey... I'm sure you know the saying about opinions.

 

[Anwar]

I prefer films with action/story/character/entertainment/wit etc, etc

And yet you like Aliens, strange.

Not strange at all seeing as Aliens had all those things where Alien 3 lacked all of them.

Cliches?

I AM a Voyager fan, actually.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

In case you want to see something awesome, the concept art for Vincent Ward's Alien 3. (This was the "monks in space" movie. It's a fantastic script. Very lyrical. Not as much of a downer.)

Million different ways to have a great Alien 3, not just 'Aliens invade earth'

The problem, of course, is that the studio didn't know what they wanted. (There was, by the way, a teaser trailer that showed Xenomorphs invading Earth. No, not the one that has the ominous voiceover "In 1992, we discover, on Earth, everyone can hear you scream." There's actually one with Marines in a firefight in a city street with aliens. I cannot find it on YouTube, however.) The Earth invasion story is the logical progression, but realizing that on a budget just wasn't realistic. Of course, the question becomes once you've ruled that out, which direction do you go? After the bombast of Aliens, the more intimate feel of Alien 3 is a completely legitimate creative decision.

solving the mystery of the derelict and spacejockey would have been great

And also very fannish.

unfortunately Fincher couldn't have done a better job if he'd been trying to ruin the series.

Fincher is the person least deserving of blame for Alien 3. He was given an unfinished script by a studio who acted like a backseat driver and recut and reshot his film. If you want to blame someone for Alien 3, blame James Cameron for turning Alien into a franchise, blame Fox for not thinking through what they wanted, blame Fox for throwing money down a hole, blame Fox for giving an untested director an unfinished script and then meddling with his film. Don't blame David Fincher.

I will defend Alien 3 to my dying breath. I think it's a work of unintentional genius, and I think that why it works has a great deal to do with Fincher's direction. But even if you hate Alien 3, you can't say that Fincher made an already bad situation worse.