Lost 6x15: "Across the Sea"

[startrekwatcher]

3 episodes from the end and I'm starting to worry whether the writers are going to pull it off. I'll reserve judgment until then but this season the payoffs were not nearly as satisfying as previous years.

Everything kept building and building, more and more pieces coming into play and at the end of last season I felt like season six would take them the final mile in their development but I've kept waiting and waiting and nothing. And now looking back I'm a little surprised things were just left where they were and have not been revisited. And to some extent this will retroactively tarnish to varying degrees what came before. It is like one hour mysteries that build well but end unsatisfactorily and you are left saying that was it. I wanted more about the injections Des took in season two, more about what the monster did to Rousseau's team and why, more about Dharma and those in Ann Arbor, why Paul's body was taken last season to the Others etc.

It still hasn't kicked into high gear which should have two or so episodes ago. When Widmore ominously hinted at the coming War I expected that would drive this season and be the epic vehicle to frame the season but looking back it was rather lacking in scope. I expected it to be literally a final battle between good and evil. Even moreso with the way Smokey was built up by Ilana and the early parts of this season as Evil Incarnate. "Dead is Dead" giving a glimpse of the glyph suggested this as well. So I have to say the idea of making Jacob and Smokey humans and not the first creations or even God or the devil are a little disappointing. Even Smokey as the season progressed became less malevolent despite what the writers suggested with the whole episode last week.

I also expected Eloise and Widmore to have a more prominent role this season too.

I guess Jack will become the New Jacob and the remaining survivors will become ironically the new Others who will help him protect the island since almost all the Others were killed off by Smokey.

 

[RoJoHen]

Out of all the candidates left, Hurley might be the only one that still retains innocense.

Interestingly enough, Hurley is also the only one who can talk to dead people, much like Smokey was able to talk to his dead mother when Jacob couldn't.

 

[exodus]

Out of all the candidates left, Hurley might be the only one that still retains innocense.

Interestingly enough, Hurley is also the only one who can talk to dead people, much like Smokey was able to talk to his dead mother when Jacob couldn't.

Right, and just like Jacob said: He was always the first choice over me.

 

[Mr Awe]

I I didn't mind the Adam & Eve clips being shown as I think it was a nice reminder to casual viewers. However I'm sure I read an interview somewhere where someone said that showing Adam & Eve will prove they had a lot worked out. But I don't get that impression from the episode.

I think it's the fact that they included the black and white stones with remains that shows they had it worked out who these skeletons belonged to.

But, it wasn't a hugely impressive revelation. And, who knows, there is some ambiguity. The white stone refers to Jacob, not his mother. So, it doesn't totally match the skeletons.

Mr Awe

 

[Mr Awe]

Out of all the candidates left, Hurley might be the only one that still retains innocense.

Funny, I was just thinking exactly that. At this point, I'd bet on Hurley being the replacement. Although, we might be seeing the end of the cycle or the start of something new too. We'll see!

Mr Awe

 

[LitmusDragon]

I think we're still missing a vital piece of the puzzle that will be revealed, either next week or during the finale.

I tend to think that Smokey maybe really isn't Jacob's brother, any more than he is Locke. He is merely assuming his form. "A fate worse than death" how about dying, and some kind of monster goes around impersonating you?

I guess Smokey just wants to leave after all, is what we're supposed to gather from this episode? But, he has to kill the candidates first? I guess that makes sense in the context of the "rules" Jacob invented, as the island keeper.

I think Jacob might have had a deeper understanding of the island than we saw here, or at least he must have gotten one in the years that followed, otherwise how can we explain the lighthouse and such.

 

[Arrqh]

I tend to think that Smokey really isn't Jacob's brother, any more than he is Locke. He is merely assuming his form. "A fate worse than death" how about dying, and some kind of monster goes around impersonating you?

How is that a fate worse then death? You're still dead, so you don't really care if anyone is impersonating you anymore. Being ripped out of your body and forced to live as a giant cloud for the rest of eternity sounds like a fate worse then death to me.

Assuming he's really not Jacob's brother, then we need some kind of explanation what he is and what he wants. This episode did not deliver on it's synopsis "The motivations of the smoke monster became clear". Um no, they didn't. If anything this episode seemed to reinforce the idea that the smoke monster just wants to leave, but that was already debunked in last week's episode ... wasn't it?

How was that debunked last week? What was debunked is that he needed the main characters alive and with him to get off the island. Instead it seems like he needs whoever is "protecting" the island to be dead for him to leave. But he still wants to leave. What this ep showed is that he was, back in the day, just some guy who wanted off the island and that's all he ever wanted. Seems pretty clear to me. He's not some evil force or whatever, but I'm glad about that because that would have been rather boring. But he's so desperate to get off and has such a dim view of humanity that he's willing to manipulate and do whatever he has to to achieve that goal.

As to the "light", that wasn't really any sort of revelation at all. I mean, we already knew about it. It's the reason why people on the island heal so fast, the source of the anomaly that the hatch was built around and the cause of the plane crash, the source of all the strange magnetism all around, the way the island was able to move, the cause of the time jumps, probably why dead people congregate on the island, the reason why Jacob and Richard didn't age and now what ripped Smokey out of his body. All they did this episode was have another hole in the ground with access to it, but it's not like this was anything new or surprising.

What's funny is that Dharma and Jacob were eventually doing the same thing. He's trying to keep the light on the island and protected. And that's exactly what the function of the hatch was, after they apparently drilled down to it from another location. What the entire show is, apparently, is Jacob trying to find someone to replace him pushing the metaphorical button in the metaphorical hatch. Desmond and Jacob basically had the same job

 

[LitmusDragon]

^ Sorry, I totally edited out the stuff that you responded to. You're right of course, I realized my mistake after I'd posted.

 

[Caligula]

Due to circumstances that required my presence away from the house at the 9 o'clock hour last night, I was forced to tape last night's episode. First, let me say that because I'd stayed away from either spoilers or even commercials for this week, I had no idea we'd be getting a Jacob/MIB backstory. I loved it!

I do have one question which has to do with the fact that I had to pre-program the damn thing.... My recording cuts off just as Jacob sets his brother's body down next to his mother and utters the line "Goodbye, brother." How much, if anything, did I miss after that?

 

[RoJoHen]

Nothing that I recall. This episode actually DIDN'T end with a crazy cliffhanger.

 

[Seven of Five]

I enjoyed this episode voted excellent. There are many parts of it that remain somewhat unclear, that will either come to light in the concluding episodes, or that will take on a new life or meaning.

I really enjoyed seeing that MiB wasn't an evil BWAHAHAHA type.

 

[Servo]

Man, all the bitching and whining in this thread is hilarious.

 

[Hober Mallow]

A couple of months ago I read the boys were born in 23AD. Don't know if that's accurate but seems about right.

Yeah, that was from the leaked script or casting call or whatever it was. The scenes with the boys were said to be from 23 AD. Everything else from the leak was accurate, so I think we can safely say the episode took place in the early first century.

Here's one theory shot down. The little boy that Not-Locke keeps seeing on the Island? Same actor playing Young Jacob in this episode. So that's dead Jacob and not a third god-like entity as I thought. Unless it's just taking the form of Lil' Jacob.

Yep. I called it when we first saw that kid, and everyone insisted it couldn't possibly be young Jacob. So...

(Does the smug dance)

...okay. I'm done.

What's interesting is the kid MIB saw when he was with Desmond was himself. What to make of that?

I'm really confused now by Jacob's explanation to Richard about evil needing to be contained. In this episode, Mother tells us that it's a light, a good that needs to be protected? Which is it?

Jacob came off looking a little like Ben Linus in this episode. Especially in the scene where he asked his mom essentially, "Why him? What was so wrong with me? What about me?" On the one hand, it makes Jacob more interesting that it was MIB who was the special one who was in tune with the island, while Jacob was just the available one. On the other hand, Jacob now looks like a freaking tool. I feel bad for all our losties who are now basically on his side. They have no clue what a fucking dimwit he was.

If this was taking place in 23AD (which I also had heard before) it really does not make any sense in tying in with other things we have seen in the past.

First, all of the Egyptian stuff (temples, statues, hieroglyphics, pictures) would have had to come way before 23AD, yet none of it was present on the Island in this episode (the statue would have been visible from the donkey wheel well) since it was visible from there in season 5.

So how did all of the Egyptian stuff end up on the Island? Did the Island jump through time to a 1000+ years before this episode took place to have the Egyptians end up on the island and build all that stuff?

It's an interesting possibility. It's possible the island has jumped through time many times before.

Who re-dug the well and finish off building the donkey wheel contraption?

That was my biggest question at the end of this episode. But perhaps whoever finished it turned the wheel and sent the island back through time, where the Egyptians discovered it.

All that could be (some what) possible if this episode had taken place way, way earlier then it seemed to. I mean, way back, pre (or concurrent) to the hight of the Egyptian empire. So, something like 3000BC? but then, I believe that was way before Latin was a language and it would make no sense for the mom to be speaking it this episode.

You're right, 3000BC would be several thousand years before the latin language existed.

So, I guess the only way to resolve these questions is to assume that the island at some point in time, went back in time.

I'm going to assume it probably did unless they clarify things in the last two episodes.

 

[RoJoHen]

On the other hand, Jacob now looks like a freaking tool. I feel bad for all our losties who are now basically on his side. They have no clue what a fucking dimwit he was.

I love this. It's such a different approach that I definitely never would have seen coming. It does make all these deaths much more tragic knowing that it's possible they all died for nothing...or for the wrong thing.

 

[trekkiebaggio]

I guess he saw what it changed his brother into. Or was Jacob actually talking to Richard about the light or about Smokey?

But then if Jacob doesn't want Smokey to leave why does he keep bringing people to the island when he knows that Smokey will try and use them as a means to an end to escape

Unless he thought no-one could help him so just killed everyone, until he started thinking about the loophole.

 

[Jenee]

When the Brother went in there he was given a fate worse than death; immortality as a blob of smoke (yet able to take the forms of the dead). His former body was spit out when the smoke shot out, that's what Jacob found in the river. He can continue to appear in that form because the original body is dead.

This scene was probably the most clear to me. All the bits and pieces we've picked up over this season and this episode.

The brother's "fate worse than death" is he is immortal, but can never leave the island because the island is surrounded by water.

When the smoke flew out of the cave, Jacob followed it, and found Brother by the stream - it can't cross water. So, the smoke ... kinda like ran into a brick wall, and fell - into his previous body. Jacob took that body to the cave, ...

after that it doesn't make sense.

Perhaps, that's how Jacob "stole" Brother's body. Maybe he did a burial ritual that kept the body in the cave - that's why he needed Christian's body and Locke's body. He could manifest himself to look like his old self, but, he didn't actually have his physical body. Maybe that's why the ash surrounding the cabin is for - maybe it's not actually surrounding the cabin, but separating ... no, that's not right, cuz Christian led Jack to the cave ...

anyway ... that's my take on it.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I do have one question which has to do with the fact that I had to pre-program the damn thing.... My recording cuts off just as Jacob sets his brother's body down next to his mother and utters the line "Goodbye, brother." How much, if anything, did I miss after that?

Jacob puts a black and white stone in a bag and sets it next to the bodies. Flash forward to 2004, where Jack and Kate find the bodies in the caves, and Jack opens the bag and takes out the black and white stones.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I was also waiting to see why people need to be sedated for their trip to the island and thought the writers were saving it for the sub escape but it went KABOOM so I wonder if we ever will. It was made a big deal several times in season 3 and several times we were teased with it like last season when Juliet, Kate and Sawyer were on the Kalaga.

Now that I've seen the season play out I am left scratching my head as to why Smokey came for Claire? I mean why take her out of everyone? The only thing I'm coming up with is that was the reason Kate agreed to come back to the island. And I honestly don't think we got an explanation for why Aaron can't be raised by another? Or what the Others were doing with Walt? Was he a candidate/special? Was Miles and where does his gift come from? Why did Ilana's friend who got ripped to pieces by Smokey try to convince Miles not to join up with Widmore? Why did Widmore wait until 1992 to Purge Dharma? Who was sending the supplies in season two? Did the players behind Dharma ever know what became of their people? Have they tried to find the island? How did the Black Rock Journal get from the island where it presumably ended up along with its author? How did Dharma learn of the island's existence--the US military?--we did see a photo on the board at the Lamp Post. Why was Smokey stuck in John's form after Jacob was killed? Why did Smokey in season 3 approach Juliet, scan her and then move on? Did he kill the pilot to keep everyone here? I don't think we ever got a good explanation for what Radzinsky was doing in the Hatch and why he drew that neon map.

Also why did Jacob let the Six leave in season four if he wanted them back on the island? He could have stopped them--did he need Jack have his breakdown so he'd come back to the island with an attitude more receptive to being the protector?

Also the more I think about everything Smokey is doing to get off the island comes back to his "Mother" telling him there isn't anything out there and he wants to show her! That is a pretty thin bit of motivation to explain his actions.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

IGN and TWOP both gave this episode low scores. I'm glad people are realizing how boring this episode was.

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/lost/across_the_sea.php

http://tv.ign.com/articles/108/1089039p1.html

Yeah, I know. I mean, I though I enjoyed the hell out of watching this episode, but fortunately there are plenty of people who know better to make me realize that I was wrong

 

[RoJoHen]

Also the more I think about everything Smokey is doing to get off the island comes back to his "Mother" telling him there isn't anything out there and he wants to show her! That is a pretty thin bit of motivation to explain his actions.

I don't think he wants to show her, but he was certainly upset that she lied to him about there being an outside world. That may have started his little rebellion as a child, but now he just wants to get the fuck out.

Maybe he wants to destroy the world. He lived with man and learned that they are nothing but selfish, corrupt individuals, and he doesn't think they deserve to live. That's why Jacob keeps bringing people to the Island -- to prove MiB wrong so that he won't be as motivated to go out and destroy everything.