Sam Mendes
Lost 6x15: "Across the Sea"
- Thread starter Agent Richard07
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When CrazyMom said the light was the heart of the island, it reminded me of John Locke back in season one, during his first encounter with the Smoke Monster.
"I have seen into the heart of this Island, and it was beautiful."
Perhaps the light is now carried in the Man in Black and now if he leaves that's why everything will be destroyed? CrazyMom did say something about how if the light ever went out everything else would die.
"I have seen into the heart of this Island, and it was beautiful."
Perhaps the light is now carried in the Man in Black and now if he leaves that's why everything will be destroyed? CrazyMom did say something about how if the light ever went out everything else would die.
Good question. I don't think they really made a point of showing us either way, but I suppose there was still a funky light spilling out of the donkey wheel when Ben and Locke turned it.
So if the Man in Black's name is brother (since that's all Jacob ever calls him), does that mean Desmond has just been ultra-cautious this whole time about the Man in Black's shape shifting mojo and calls everyone "brother" just in case it's him?
So if the Man in Black's name is brother (since that's all Jacob ever calls him), does that mean Desmond has just been ultra-cautious this whole time about the Man in Black's shape shifting mojo and calls everyone "brother" just in case it's him?
Could be. My first thought was that when the smoke monster came through the trees it gave Locke a view of the spring.
Also back in the season four finale--it was so cold down there where the wheel was Ben put on an arctic coat before descending yet tonite in the flashback it looked warm with no ice and MIB had on a sleeveless shirt--I wonder what caused the freeze.
Another element I found cool in this episode was the continuation of the theme of man coming to exploit the Island. It's a faction in the Island's history that seems to always be there, and it also represents the science side of things.
The well-diggers in this episode, the U.S. Army in the 50's, Dharma in the 70's, Widmore (possibly) in the present. There's always a group out there who are doing scientific experiments using the Island's electromagnetic properties, until the mystical guardians of the Island kick them out.
It's man of science vs. man of faith on a large scale.
Even compare this season to season five. Season five was about time travel and the Dharma initiative. Daniel Faraday was the voice of exposition to explain the sciencey things going on. Season five was the year of the Man of Science.
Season six is about ghosts, immortality, mystical rules, light and dark. It's main voice of exposition has been the Man in Black, a being compared to the devil, who is dead, who can transform into a pillar of black smoke. It's the year of the Man of Faith, which is fitting, as that is what Jack has been brought around to.
The well-diggers in this episode, the U.S. Army in the 50's, Dharma in the 70's, Widmore (possibly) in the present. There's always a group out there who are doing scientific experiments using the Island's electromagnetic properties, until the mystical guardians of the Island kick them out.
It's man of science vs. man of faith on a large scale.
Even compare this season to season five. Season five was about time travel and the Dharma initiative. Daniel Faraday was the voice of exposition to explain the sciencey things going on. Season five was the year of the Man of Science.
Season six is about ghosts, immortality, mystical rules, light and dark. It's main voice of exposition has been the Man in Black, a being compared to the devil, who is dead, who can transform into a pillar of black smoke. It's the year of the Man of Faith, which is fitting, as that is what Jack has been brought around to.
Below average. Pointless. Frustrating. Argh.
There were so many better ways this hour so close to the end could have been spent. I wish these 100% mythology episodes had been done as webisodes or something instead and then I could just ignore them. Get back to the characters I've spent 6 years caring about.
There were so many better ways this hour so close to the end could have been spent. I wish these 100% mythology episodes had been done as webisodes or something instead and then I could just ignore them. Get back to the characters I've spent 6 years caring about.
I'm kind of in the middle on this one. I liked the familial aspect of it all, it was very mythic, but Allison Janney's dialogue was far too vaguely written. Yeah, yeah, every answer will lead to another question, very funny, writers. How about show don't tell; i.e., get on with it. For instance, I really would have preferred to see more post-Smokey history - the arrival of the Egyptians on the island, for instance.
Having said that, it definitely puts the two brothers in a new light. It seems to me they're both evil, in their own way - one following the path of his mother, one rebelling against it. Certainly Jacob's claims about Smokey and the island's purpose in Ab Aeterno are highly suspect. At this point, I'm really rooting for the castaways to find a third option.
Having said that, it definitely puts the two brothers in a new light. It seems to me they're both evil, in their own way - one following the path of his mother, one rebelling against it. Certainly Jacob's claims about Smokey and the island's purpose in Ab Aeterno are highly suspect. At this point, I'm really rooting for the castaways to find a third option.
Titus Welliver and Mark Pelligrino did a fine job with what little that they were given.
But I was disappointed with the episode since we learn so little. I watch LOST for the awesome main characters, so it felt like an entirely different show this week. I get the feeling that we got this episode so the main cast could have more time working in the series finale.
This episode should have been shown much sooner, definitely not so close to the series finale.
But I was disappointed with the episode since we learn so little. I watch LOST for the awesome main characters, so it felt like an entirely different show this week. I get the feeling that we got this episode so the main cast could have more time working in the series finale.
This episode should have been shown much sooner, definitely not so close to the series finale.
Funny for me the big selling point for LOST for me in the last few years has been the mythology, the structure of the series, the twists, the cliffhangers, the mysteries, the inventive writing.
A lot of times I've felt the characters were as much chess pieces to the writers as they were to the island--mainly there to provide exposition, be action figures, react, facilitate information to the audience since in a lot of cases the audience was the only ones to learn something and the other characters never found out about etc. The characters are likeable enough but there are just too many of them and too little screentime with the numerous plot threads and need to constantly advance them that there was never really a chance to connect with them in the way you would on a more traditional drama with a more modest ensemble of characters where scenes wouldn't be rushed and a lot of reactions wouldn't be offscreen that viewers would have to supply. I mean take last season you got a slice of life for Juliet/Sawyer to get a general idea of their relationship but at the end of the day it was there enough on screen to really connect in a major way--same thing with Sun/Jin's deaths last week. It was a footnote in the episode. Blink and you would have missed it--no time for emotional fallout just a tip of the hat to it.
And the biggest character focus has been Jack/Kate/Sawyer which for me has been the least interesting. That's why going into the final season I knew that I wouldn't have the same emotional reaction to saying good-bye as I had with my other favorite tv series.
It was always in my eyes that everything on this show for the last 6 years has been about the Big Picture--much in the way that everything that happened within the LOST universe was in service of the island. So I am fine with all mythology all the time--I mean the show sidelines characters and forgets about them for years before bringing them back.
So apparently nobody actually knows what's going on. I mean, we first thought that the Others knew what the Island was all about, but then it was "No, most of them don't know anything. It's Ben who has all the answers." Then we learned that Ben was just following orders indirectly from Jacob. Now I guess it turns out that Jacob only knows what the Island is and why it needs to be protected in a very vague sense. That is, he's protecting the glowing rocks because his mother told him to, and he blindly follows, but he doesn't really know specifically what the glow is, or what would happen if the glow ran out. He's just protecting it because he was told to, sort of like Desmond pressed the button because he was told it was important but never asked any questions.
The glow is apparently what Charles Widmore is after, and it puts his motivation into sharper relief. But it's still a little unclear how MiB being trapped on the Island plays into this. Why exactly is it so important that he stays on the Island now? Because he was touched by the glow, and none of it can ever leave the Island? That kind of sucks for him, since he never asked to be turned into a Smoke Monster. All he did was kill his adoptive mother in retribution for her going on a mass murdering spree and trapping him on the Island forever.
The glow is apparently what Charles Widmore is after, and it puts his motivation into sharper relief. But it's still a little unclear how MiB being trapped on the Island plays into this. Why exactly is it so important that he stays on the Island now? Because he was touched by the glow, and none of it can ever leave the Island? That kind of sucks for him, since he never asked to be turned into a Smoke Monster. All he did was kill his adoptive mother in retribution for her going on a mass murdering spree and trapping him on the Island forever.
Excellent. We got an Adam and Eve origin story, and a Donkey Wheel origin story, and a MiB / Jacob origin story all in one episode. I'm happy. 
The obvious question now is that if Jacob's brother died then who or what is the man in black? If he isn't Jacob's brother anymore, then why do the rules still apply to him? I are confused on this point.
The obvious question now is that if Jacob's brother died then who or what is the man in black? If he isn't Jacob's brother anymore, then why do the rules still apply to him? I are confused on this point.
I might take exception to this. This series has had such an expansive cast of characters that it has always spread the screentime around. MIB and Jacob are important characters and deserved their showcase.
But LOST and other shows like it i.e. season one of Heroes always sprinkled clues and building up the mysteries of the year throughout the season always waiting just right before the final stretch of the season to pull it altogether before launching into the resolution for the year. This was not much different. I do think though the season could have been tighter and I question whether the writers needed 18 episodes or maybe I should ask did they do the best they could with them.
I think the monster is his brother. It is his soul. The body he placed beside Mother[TM] was just the empty vessel that was discarded. All season they've talked about balancing the good with evil within an individual going back to Sayid and Claire, the scales in the rock face room etc so maybe whatever happened to him in the light revealed his darkness in his soul literally.
If this was taking place in 23AD (which I also had heard before) it really does not make any sense in tying in with other things we have seen in the past.
First, all of the Egyptian stuff (temples, statues, hieroglyphics, pictures) would have had to come way before 23AD, yet none of it was present on the Island in this episode (the statue would have been visible from the donkey wheel well) since it was visible from there in season 5.
So how did all of the Egyptian stuff end up on the Island? Did the Island jump through time to a 1000+ years before this episode took place to have the Egyptians end up on the island and build all that stuff?
Who re-dug the well and finish off building the donkey wheel contraption? Who built the original stone wall blocking off the energy? The wall the MIB started to take apart before his mom killed him?
And this is another possible mistake (unless the island has undergone major geographical modifications sometime from this episode to the present) but the Donkey Wheel was super super deep into the island's core. Remember the super deep well that led down to it? Remember the long elevator ride in the Orchid station to get down that deep? The well we saw in this episode wasn't very deep at all. 20-30 feet, that's it.
So how did it end up getting so deep later on? Also, when we last saw this well and the Orchid station, etc... there was a temple near by and it was on top of a hill!
No hill in this episode. No ancient temple near by.
So, going by what we've seen, at some point between when this episode took place, a bunch of Egyptians had to come to the island, build tons of temples, statues, etc... (which would take 100+'s of years given the number of them that we've seen (or that literally thousands of Egyptian slaves were brought to the island to build all this stuff really quickly)) and then all die off before Richard shipwrecked on the island. Plus, all the Island geography would have to change with hills rising up, burying stuff way deeper into the ground then what we've seen.
All that could be (some what) possible if this episode had taken place way, way earlier then it seemed to. I mean, way back, pre (or concurrent) to the hight of the Egyptian empire. So, something like 3000BC? but then, I believe that was way before Latin was a language and it would make no sense for the mom to be speaking it this episode.
So, I guess the only way to resolve these questions is to assume that the island at some point in time, went back in time.
First, all of the Egyptian stuff (temples, statues, hieroglyphics, pictures) would have had to come way before 23AD, yet none of it was present on the Island in this episode (the statue would have been visible from the donkey wheel well) since it was visible from there in season 5.
So how did all of the Egyptian stuff end up on the Island? Did the Island jump through time to a 1000+ years before this episode took place to have the Egyptians end up on the island and build all that stuff?
Who re-dug the well and finish off building the donkey wheel contraption? Who built the original stone wall blocking off the energy? The wall the MIB started to take apart before his mom killed him?
And this is another possible mistake (unless the island has undergone major geographical modifications sometime from this episode to the present) but the Donkey Wheel was super super deep into the island's core. Remember the super deep well that led down to it? Remember the long elevator ride in the Orchid station to get down that deep? The well we saw in this episode wasn't very deep at all. 20-30 feet, that's it.
So how did it end up getting so deep later on? Also, when we last saw this well and the Orchid station, etc... there was a temple near by and it was on top of a hill!
No hill in this episode. No ancient temple near by.
So, going by what we've seen, at some point between when this episode took place, a bunch of Egyptians had to come to the island, build tons of temples, statues, etc... (which would take 100+'s of years given the number of them that we've seen (or that literally thousands of Egyptian slaves were brought to the island to build all this stuff really quickly)) and then all die off before Richard shipwrecked on the island. Plus, all the Island geography would have to change with hills rising up, burying stuff way deeper into the ground then what we've seen.
All that could be (some what) possible if this episode had taken place way, way earlier then it seemed to. I mean, way back, pre (or concurrent) to the hight of the Egyptian empire. So, something like 3000BC? but then, I believe that was way before Latin was a language and it would make no sense for the mom to be speaking it this episode.
So, I guess the only way to resolve these questions is to assume that the island at some point in time, went back in time.
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