I've long held the view that over the years we've been seeing different alternate continuities. For me it goes something like this:
TOS-TAS-TMP
TWoK-TSFS-TVH-TFF-TUC and this continuity may be part of TNG-DS9-VOY-ENT
And finally there's ST09.
I will add that I think that something parallel to TWoK through TNG happened in the original TOS continuity only somewhat altered. In no way can I accept anything parallel with ENT in TOS' continuity. TOS' 21st and 22nd centuries were quite different.
I understand where you're coming from here, and I agree to a considerable extent... although I have no problem including films 2-4 and 6. (Along with quite a few novels, FWIW.)
The sensibilities of Trek changed in a very noticeable way after TNG was on the air, and it often leads to a certain cognitive dissonance trying to fit it into the same continuity with TOS. That's exacerbated by the fact that TNG in its first few years went out of its way to
avoid mentioning any characters, events, planets, or aliens from the TOS era. Sometimes it seemed as if GR was treating it as more of a remake or "re-imagining" than a sequel. Other producers papered over a lot of those gaps in later years, but still, that's how it came across.
AFAIK, people can believe whatever they want to believe. However, personal belief, personal "canon" if you will, has absolutely zero effect on what the "actual" canon of the show/movies are. .... Someone telling me that they completely disregard all events after TOS is meaningless to me, because I don't feel the same way... It's like arguing for or against the existence of God. But if that's what that person believes, fine.
I honestly don't see where you're coming from here. First of all, the OP wasn't talking about "canon"—a very specific term where Trek is concerned, which basically boils down to "what Paramount will acknowledge on screen." It was talking about
continuity, which is a different matter, and which unavoidably involves questions of interpretation and the need to reconcile inconsistencies.
Second, if you don't have discussions with people who don't see things the same way as you, that must really constrain the number of discussions you can participate in.
Third, debating the existence of god(s) is a terrific intellectual exercise with a rich and fascinating tradition behind it. Several authors have had bestselling books on the topic in the past few years alone. So it's kind of an odd example of something "pointless."
I frankly have never understood a personal canon. I know you are all making fun of the obviousness of "None of it really happened," but it . . . well . . . didn't. And there's SO much inconsistency even within some series, you'd have to throw out whole ep.'s from your canon, right? ...I guess I don't think too much about the continuity for above reasons.
The only continuity that matters is the story that I'm watching/reading at the moment.
You guys seem to be on the same page with one another here. But surely you can understand that for a lot of people (certainly including myself), continuity is a big part of the attraction of serial entertainment? The more that episodes/installments of something contribute to a whole that's greater than the sum of the parts, the more they build a mythos, the more interesting it all is. Any single story may not be all that great, but it's a piece in a puzzle that reveals a much bigger picture.
And yeah, there will always be some internal inconsistencies (even when you have a canon like, say, Sherlock Holmes, when it's all from a single author)... but working those out is all part of the fun.
I count it all. But where there's a conflict I defer to TOS.
Very sensible man. Without TOS, none of the rest would exist. It's Ur-Trek.
I did the same thing with my own chronology - TOS (based on the episodes) holds together pretty well as a series of events in the EARLY 23rd century. Even the first season of TNG fits into this pattern.
The Okuda's approach of taking TNG as the focal point and looking back to TOS meant that a lot of TOS' events had to be shoehorned in.
The major headache turning point was in the TNG episode "The Neutral Zone" when Data gave the year as 2364.
I completely agree! Pre-TNG, the prevailing fan crhonologies almost all went with early 23rd century. Even TNG at the beginning seemed to follow that... remember the remarks in "Farpoint" about Data graduating with Starfleet's "class of '78"? I wish I knew why that was changed, and by whom.
Then it got even worse later with the dicta (from Richard Arnold?) that the events of TOS happened
exactly 300 years after they were broadcast (never mind any internal references), which wound up enshrined in the official
Trek Chronology. Sigh. (Alongside the equally arbitrary rule that TNG seasons exactly followed calendar years. But I digress...)
Anyway, continuity is irrevelant. Kanon is futile. All bets are off, now that the franchise is in new hands. J.J., and the future makers of Trek will produce it as they see fit. We have the choice of going along for the ride, or getting off the bus.
Indeed. Myself, I'm off the bus, so long as Abrams, Orci & Kurtzman are driving it.
(Much like the approach I took to both VOY and ENT under Berman & Braga... I gave them a chance early on, and quickly decided they just weren't worth my attention. I did eventually watch 4th-season ENT on DVD, though. It's amazing what a difference good writing can make. Had Coto and the Reeves-Stevenses been running the show from the start, it might actually have come across as a plausible prequal to TOS.)
For me Star Trek TOS is Star Trek. The rest are adaptations. I don't feel I'm missing anything by ignoring them.
I've seen all the films except only bits of NEM (Yuch).
I've seen all of TNG.
I've seen most of DS9 (about 60-70%).
I've seen perhaps a quarter of VOY).
I've seen about a quarter of ENT.
TNG and DS9 had some good segments. If I put all the stuff I liked from both series I might get maybe three seasons worth.
If it doesn't interest you then you're not missing anything.
QFT. Sounds not unlike my own viewing history.
At the very least, even giving TNG the benefit of the doubt, my
most tolerant interpretation of "later" continuity still can't avoid acknowledging that as of STVII:FC, we're operating in a different timeline... one that's changed from 2163 forward, just as surely as ST09's "alternate reality" is changed from 2233 forward.
There is a lot of hokiness and lack of attention to detail that often has to be retconned when it comes to TOS.
