5x02 The Beast Below (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

[Checkmate]

"The Beast Below" established no such thing at all. The opening narration is rather obviously ironic, not a literal description of how she sees the Doctor.

Of course it doesn't demonstrate it at all. If, you know, you plug your ears, close your eyes, and go la-la-la during pivotal scenes because it destroys your world view.

And the fact that she hesitates when Mandy asks her if the Doctor is her boyfriend is a rather strong indicator that she does have romantic feelings for him. And that's to say nothing of the "I've got you" moment they shared.

Did you watch a different scene than I did? That hesitation was because she remembered that she ran off on her fiance the day before her wedding. Just like she explains to Mandy right then and there. More la-la-laing on your part, I presume?

And yes, friends are never glad to have one another to rely on. And from what I hear, they never ever ever hug each other when apologizing or bonding. No sir.

Again, what's with this tendency to dismiss the nature of romantic affection by describing it in the crudest, most disempowering of terms possible? As though romance is only a matter of wet panties and tented trousers?

I gave two examples. You're the one who focused on the "cruder" version in your feeble attempt to counter the point.

At this point in the show, you're just flat out wrong about her being madly in love with him. Plain and simple. He's her imaginary friend -- just like she said. Not her imaginary boyfriend, not her imaginary love interest, not her imaginary husband. Her imaginary friend.

And yes, it's very possible for a male and female to be friends without romance budding in. Sexual attraction? Duh, she's human so of course she's going to check his ass out if he's bold enough to strip down in front of her. But there's no sign of romance between them whatsoever.

 

[EJA]

Nope; no continuity error at all. The Doctor changes things; for example; the "Arc in Space" is in a "past future" that will now never happen; Because the Doctor (and Master) changed the "past".

Yeah, just imagine that the Doctor's timeline is the linear one and everything just about makes sense.

I'm sorry, but I just don't think this works. The Doctor never changes things that drastically, he's fully aware of the consequences of going too far (look at what happened in Father's Day, and he rejected Adam for trying to change established events). Besides, as another poster mentioned, even if the past had been altered, I fail to see how that would either prevent or cause the solar flares to happen in the 29th century.

Personally, I like to simply ignore the dates mentioned in the episode, and pretend it's set much further in the future. It's like the Fourth Doctor saying that the Dalek invasion of Earth occured in the year 2000 in Genesis of the Daleks; that's clearly an error, as it was 2157.

 

[Starkers]

Hmm, tricky one this because for much of it I found it incredibly average (probably the most average Moff script I've seen) not bad, just meh, kinda falls into the 42, Idiot Lantern bog standard episode slot. However it was probably more like Gridlock in the end. A mundane episode elevated by a great final third. Love the Doctor's dilema, thought Smith and Gillian were both good again (especially Amy).

On the whole though an awful lot of plot holes and it did feel rushed (I'm afraid the 45 minute run time does hamper the show at times). I'm hoping this is just the script Moffat had to spend the least amount of time on.

Average. ~(But I feel that might change on second viewing, just not sure if it'll go up or down right now!)

 

[Count Zero]

I loved the hug at the end of the episode. I love Amy so far...and I have to agree with Sci regarding the romantic thing. When the little girl (I have forgotten her name now) asks if the Doctor was her boyfriend she hesitates in her answer I believe.

I took that to mean that she realised that she had run away from her wedding (and kind of forgot about it, it seemed to me). She says as much to the girl. Later, she asks the Doctor whether he ever ran away from something and there's the bit about her marital status in the voting booth. I think what the episode is meant to convey is that she's unsure about her wedding, deep down. (Although that's actually pretty common right before wedding day, I think.)


The more I think about the episode the more plot holes, contrivances and non-sequiturs I come up with. For example, where did all the children come from at the end? Where they just kept down there because the whale wouldn't eat them and allowed to move around freely? If so, then why snatch them up in the first place? Also, if Amy and the Doctor were spit out by the whale, which was later seen to be in space underneath the actual starship, why didn't they land in the vacuum of space? And, most importantly, the whale could be clearly seen underneath the ship, so why didn't the Doctor notice that even before they boarded? He should really get some scanners installed. Also, the new screwdriver doesn't seem to be very good at detecting giant alien life...

Most Who stories have (minor) plot holes but this just seems a bit sloppily written. Which is odd since Moffat usually has very good stories. Hopefully, next week's story will be better.

 

[Silent_Bob]

I loved the hug at the end of the episode. I love Amy so far...and I have to agree with Sci regarding the romantic thing. When the little girl (I have forgotten her name now) asks if the Doctor was her boyfriend she hesitates in her answer I believe.

I took that to mean that she realised that she had run away from her wedding (and kind of forgot about it, it seemed to me). She says as much to the girl. Later, she asks the Doctor whether he ever ran away from something and there's the bit about her marital status in the voting booth. I think what the episode is meant to convey is that she's unsure about her wedding, deep down. (Although that's actually pretty common right before wedding day, I think.)


The more I think about the episode the more plot holes, contrivances and non-sequiturs I come up with. For example, where did all the children come from at the end? Where they just kept down there because the whale wouldn't eat them and allowed to move around freely? If so, then why snatch them up in the first place?

The system seemed fairly automated to me.It's meant to skim off the dregs of society who don't contribute so when the kids get a zero or screw up, try to ride the lifts they get sent down below just like an adult would. And once they got down there they cant exactly send them home after they've been inside a space whales gob.

Also, if Amy and the Doctor were spit out by the whale, which was later seen to be in space underneath the actual starship, why didn't they land in the vacuum of space? And, most importantly, the whale could be clearly seen underneath the ship, so why didn't the Doctor notice that even before they boarded? He should really get some scanners installed. Also, the new screwdriver doesn't seem to be very good at detecting giant alien life...

We didn't see the underside of the ship before the end, its conceivable that that area was enclosed until they realised the Space whale was willing to let them carry on riding it's back and opened it up a bit.

 

[Checkmate]

I took that to mean that she realised that she had run away from her wedding (and kind of forgot about it, it seemed to me). She says as much to the girl. Later, she asks the Doctor whether he ever ran away from something and there's the bit about her marital status in the voting booth. I think what the episode is meant to convey is that she's unsure about her wedding, deep down. (Although that's actually pretty common right before wedding day, I think.)

Yep.

The more I think about the episode the more plot holes, contrivances and non-sequiturs I come up with. For example, where did all the children come from at the end? Where they just kept down there because the whale wouldn't eat them and allowed to move around freely? If so, then why snatch them up in the first place?

The children were down there as part of some strange punishment system. The boy we saw did poorly on his tests, and everyone (including Mandy) knew he was going to be punished for it. It was basically detention on crack, though it does seem they've tried to get the whale to eat the children in the past along with other dissidents, too. Which, itself, is mindboggling and I'm aghast that the Doctor didn't do anything about that.

Most Who stories have (minor) plot holes but this just seems a bit sloppily written. Which is odd since Moffat usually has very good stories. Hopefully, next week's story will be better.

It just seemed to be more of a lack of time to explain everything rather than a lack of there being an explanation. The Doctor rarely ever "scans" ships or worlds when he approaches, and we saw him stumble upon the starship from above. The Sonic Screwdriver, while a magic wand that can do nearly anything, can only do what the Doctor tells it to do. If he wasn't scanning for a giant alien life form, it's doubtful it would just volunteer that information. Though he did seem to figure it out easily enough even before he got into the Tower.

The Smilers suffer the same fate, too. They were clearly a (albeit macabre) robot security force used for law enforcement/teachers/etc.. They warned people who were doing things they shouldn't be doing by changing their faces, and switched to the ugly face when punishment was at hand. The Winders were apparently cybernetic hybrids, and their main purpose seemed to be to keep the ship operating. Sort of a precursor to the clockwork men we saw in the Fireplace episode.

 

[Captain Pike]

Felt disjointed. Average. :|

Roll on next week and the daleks!

 

[Rowan Sjet]

Also, if Amy and the Doctor were spit out by the whale, which was later seen to be in space underneath the actual starship, why didn't they land in the vacuum of space? And, most importantly, the whale could be clearly seen underneath the ship, so why didn't the Doctor notice that even before they boarded? He should really get some scanners installed. Also, the new screwdriver doesn't seem to be very good at detecting giant alien life...

We didn't see the underside of the ship before the end, its conceivable that that area was enclosed until they realised the Space whale was willing to let them carry on riding it's back and opened it up a bit.

I had similar thoughts upon seeing the spacewhale out in the open like that and why it wasn't visible from the TARDIS, but you just reminded me of the whole "Abdication" process. It's quite probable there was a bottom section to Spaceship UK that contained the spacewhale (and hid it from view) and this would have been the section that the Doctor and Amy got threw up into. When the abdication button was pressed, that bottom section was blown off into space, which would have allowed the spacewhale to escape if it so chose.

All in all, the plot was a bit messy but it was still brilliant I thought. Long live the era of Moff.

 

[Count Zero]

They seemed to have some time left at the end of the episode, given the lead-in to the next one (I liked the scene with Churchill and the shadow Dalek, though), so I'm not sure why they didn't include one or two more scenes, like Mandy finding her friend and the other kids and the whale becoming visible. I guess the thing I didn't like about the episode was that there were several mysteries that were nicely set up and then resolved rather anti-climactically, basically by people just stating the explanations.
But I think a lot of that could have been mitigated by better/different editing.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ Your analysis of Amy's reaction to Mandy (thanks for reminding me of her name guys even indirectly) is probably correct I just thought for a slight second there she seemed to be thinking about the Doctor in that way but your right she was thinking about Rory. Similar to Rose leaving Mickey although even though Rose and Mickey seemed pretty committed they weren't engaged.

There were several flaws in the plot some of them have been brought up although for me this episode much like "End of the World" IMO was really to set up the dynamic between Amy and the Doctor and I think that it ended up doing that pretty well so I can live with everything else that might've been "wrong" with the episode.

 

[Scotty]

A nice episode but there was way too much going on. The episode had a frantic pace, which was a bit unnecessary. A gradual build-up of the tension would've made this episode a whole lot better.

Besides that, this episode was packed with enough ideas for 3 episodes. The Starship UK, the Smilers, Liz 10, Voting Booths, Star Whale, Waste chutes, dimensional cracks and to top it all off Winston Churchill. It all was a bit much....

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Besides that, this episode was packed with enough ideas for 3 episodes. The Starship UK, the Smilers, Liz 10, Voting Booths, Star Whale, Waste chutes, dimensional cracks and to top it all off Winston Churchill. It all was a bit much....

And "packed with enough ideas for 3 episodes" is a bad thing? Since when? I'd rather have that than 40 minutes of "hmm, does the Prime Directive applies in this case?"

 

[Shazam!]

So... can anyone explain to me why freeing the whale meant instant death? Wouldn't they just be floating around in space for a bit?

 

[The Badger]

^ Did it ever say it would be instant death? The impression I got was that the ship would go drifting ever onwards, no way to control it's voyage, until the resources ran out. The point of Starship UK was to take the survivors to another world to colonize, not to float around indefinitely.

 

[Shazam!]

^ Did it ever say it would be instant death?

The TARDIS could quite easily tow them somewhere or hang around until they made an engine. It seemed to imply that as soon as the whale link died, so did everyone else.

EDIT: I've just realised I don't mean killing the whale, I mean releasing it.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

So... can anyone explain to me why freeing the whale meant instant death? Wouldn't they just be floating around in space for a bit?

Maybe I'm extrapolating things a bit too much, but I thought the whale was their main source of energy too. Without the whale, they wouldn't have had any light, heating or electricity.

 

[Gepard]

They said releasing the whale would cause the ship to fall apart, presumably because the ship was built around it. Though the final CG image would suggest the ship is more "on top of" rather than "around." At any rate, I got the impression the idea was to suggest the physical destruction of the ship.

 

[Jon1701]

Good, but not great.

Some nice ideas but nothing seemed to come together as a coherant whole and the plot had holes you could drive a bus though.

I need to watch it again as I wasn't paying full attention the first ten minutes, but there was more than one tonal shift in the episode.

Both the leads were excellent. I quite liked Smith's shouty bit.

 

[Lensman]

Disappointed overall, spacewhale -pah, people might as well believe that the world is carried by four elephants on the back of a tortoise next.

Got the star wars line though 'Doctor, you're our only hope'.

 

[Bones2]

They said releasing the whale would cause the ship to fall apart, presumably because the ship was built around it.

Yeah, they specifically said the ship would disintegrate. None of that lazy RTD-type nonsense here.

That said, with the bit where the Doctor and Amy realise they're in a mouth and then the angle changes to clearly show a row of teeth they can clearly see with no prior change in lighting, that could have done with altering. Like, if they only see the teeth as the mouth opens slightly before vomiting. Or something. But as it stood, it looks like they should have been able to see the teeth all along.

I don't like your tone.

<sing song voice> Irony...

Well there we were discussing an episode that we actually both liked, and as soon as I dare to point out a possible plot hole, you come out with:

If you had watched the show and paid attention, you'd have known that wasn't the case.

Of course I watched the show and paid attention. That's why I'm here discussing it. But you instead insist on trying to turn a good-natured discussion into a bad-natured one. Tut tut.