First-Timer's Impressions of Deep Space Nine

[Jimmy Bob]

Season Impressions

How would I describe season 1? Hmm... Aimless. This season doesn't feel finished. It didn't develop the characters or the universe enough. I hardly know anything about Dax. And just when it starts get into itself, the season is over. There is no unifying theme and the season is somewhat schizophrenic, with earlier episodes having a distinct western atmosphere and the later ones forgetting all about it.

However it is not a bad season, especially according to Trek's first season standards. It separates itself from TNG quite nicely. DS9 has ferengi holo-sex programs. TNG has "Riker smiles and everyone explains sexuality in a very awkward way to Data". It's completely two different worlds and I still find it hard to believe that it ran at the same time with TNG.

The problem is that there are just too many mediocre episodes at the same time. And of course a lack of proper themes. And that made it hard for the moment. But otherwise, objectively, not bad as a first season. Just unfinished. It ended before it started.

Characters

In this section I describe what I know about the characters after this season.

Sisko - do I know who this guy is? Not really. I know he lost his wife and raises his son alone. But, Sisko is currently more whatever facial gestures and body movements Avery Brooks bothers to give him, than an actual written character. But Avery Brooks is fun to watch.

Kira - yeah, Kira got some character growth in this season. She starts out as this freedom fighter and later she learns that once freedom fighters become the government, then it just doesn't feel as morally superior and nice anymore (Progress). And she also learned that cardassians aren't monsters just because their cardassians, when she connected with Marittza in Duet. So she actually did quite a lot of re-examining her values on-screen this season. And thus she gets the honor of being one of season's better developed characters.

Quark - was definitely the other character who got a lot of love this season. Because Quark was right from the beginning. And for the first half of the season, Quark's and Odo's frenemyship pretty much carried the show and made it seem more livelier. He's somewhat like Lwaxana... he mostly acts a certain role, just because he enjoys to perform for others. And he seems to be a decent person, bothering to compliment Nog and getting worried about Odo.

Odo - he probably was the one whom we saw at his most naked in this season. Forsaken is as intimate as you can get. As a shapeshifter he struggles to create a form for himself, but his form is not just his physical appearance but also his job. And that's why he clings to the law so tightly, because perhaps it seems to him that he otherwise would just dissolve? Doesn't matter if it's the cardassians or federation, he just needs to do his job.

Bashir - I like Bashir. He's funny in that oblivious way. Siddig El Fadil delivers the worst line ever in this season, but otherwise he's a perfect casting choice. Though, I don't know much about Bashir, other that he has some ego issues.

O'Brien - he's a mix between a caricature and a person. He has a perfect actor performing him, but mostly he's just a caricature of a grumpy engineer who is the butt of all jokes. However he gets some deep moments every now and then. Nothing tops TNG's The Wounded yet - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJudJ9S579A. And actually, he's not that different from how he was on TNG and we don't exactly know more about him too. But I love it that he's on DS9. Actually, to be honest, Odo and Quark are sometimes caricature-like too.

Dax - I have no idea who she is. Is she just the body for the worm that wants to live forever? I've quoted those early episodes and they pretty much treat her like that, but in the "it's good" way. But you guys keep telling me that this is not the case. So I invented my own understanding of the character.

Jadzia has been raised from birth to be the host, and thus as Jadzia she never had any time to become her own person. And after becoming the host, the previous personality of the worm was just so strong so Jadzia just followed with it. Because she had done what other people told her to do her entire life, so she feels safe in following this old guy... or in being him. Because she doesn't know how to be herself. And that's why she's so confused.

But, really. Even though I managed to invent her something, doesn't mean we really got anything about her. At the moment she's Travis. Okay, not Travis. But the least-developed one nonetheless. And least interesting. Dax was only interesting in If Wishes Were Horses, just because we got a reaction from out of her. So how to fix her? Make her slutty.

Actually I don't know. Even her so-called friendship with Kira happened off-screen. Just give her something to do I guess.

Jake Sisko - he's just some kid.

 

[DevilEyes]

The best thing about In The Hands of the Prophets, apart from introducing a couple of important recurring characters, especially a great antagonist/villain in the form of Winn (I think I'm not spoiling anything by revealing that this is certainly not the last we've seen of her - in fact, she's back right at the start of season 2...), and kick-starting the storyline of Bajoran politics and religious leaders, is that it takes a surprisingly even-handed approach to religion (surprising when it comes to Star Trek), in Sisko's conversation with his son, which I've posted on TrekBBS in two threads in the last few weeks, so I'm just going to do it again:

SISKO: Sure. I heard about what happened at school. Did Mrs O'Brien call off classes?
JAKE: No. There was only me and four other kids left, but she still kept the school open. She changed the lesson to teach us about Galileo. Did you know that he was tried by the Inquisition for teaching that the Earth moved around the sun?
SISKO: Tried and convicted. His books were burned.
JAKE: How could anyone be so stupid?
SISKO: It's easy to look back seven centuries and judge what was right and wrong.
JAKE: But the same thing is happening now with all this stuff about the Celestial Temple in the wormhole. It's dumb.
SISKO: No, it's not. You've got to realise something, Jake. For over fifty years, the one thing that allowed the Bajorans to survive the Cardassian occupation was their faith. The Prophets were their only source of hope and courage.
JAKE: But there were no Prophets. They were just some aliens that you found in the wormhole.
SISKO: To those aliens, the future is no more difficult to see than the past. Why shouldn't they be considered Prophets?
JAKE: Are you serious?
SISKO: My point is, it's a matter of interpretation. It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong. If you start to think that way, you'll be acting just like Vedek Winn, only from the other side. We can't afford to think that way, Jake. We'd lose everything we've worked for here.

Which may also be the beginning of Sisko's slow, gradual change of attitude toward the Bajoran religion and this whole Emissary business.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

In the Hands of the Prophets is probably my favourite episode of Season 1. Winn and Bareil are great additions to the show.

Anyway, Season 1 was pretty forgettable overall, but they proved at the end that they could do meaty stuff.

 

[happydave]

Dax - I have no idea who she is. Is she just the body for the worm that wants to live forever? I've quoted those early episodes and they pretty much treat her like that, but in the "it's good" way. But you guys keep telling me that this is not the case. So I invented my own understanding of the character.

Jadzia has been raised from birth to be the host, and thus as Jadzia she never had any time to become her own person. And after becoming the host, the previous personality of the worm was just so strong so Jadzia just followed with it. Because she had done what other people told her to do her entire life, so she feels safe in following this old guy... or in being him. Because she doesn't know how to be herself. And that's why she's so confused.

Actually you can tell she's not confused. She's been so well trained that the blending between host and symbiont is strong. Some (myself included) argue that Jadzia gave herself completely to being blended so to an extent she has allowed the older personality to suppress her own. This isn't so much a fault in writing but a character trait of Jadzia.

She is herself in taking on so much characteristics of Dax. It'll get highlighted later in the series.


Basically you're bang on about all the characters, Sisko is incredibly underdeveloped and a lot are fairly simple at this point. Personally I find Bashir great as well, but his green eager personality grates on some. But remember there is about 150 episodes to go and they will grow. You've also got a few background characters who are around and will step forward to lead episodes which you didn't name, the recurring characters of DS9 become fantastic and better than basically any other Trek.

 

[TheGodBen]

I love ITHOTP, it's not as emotionally powerful as Duet, but it has conspiracies and religion and politics and "NOOOOOOOO!" and it introduces two important characters going forward. And I love the final scene, it acts as a good bookend to the season and it almost makes you forget that they squandered so much potential getting to this point. Another good thing about this episode is that it's not a cliffhanger (something TNG had become obsessed with) but it sets things up for the opening episodes of the next season, which is pretty much the format the show used every season.

How would I describe season 1? Hmm... Aimless. This season doesn't feel finished. It didn't develop the characters or the universe enough. I hardly know anything about Dax. And just when it starts get into itself, the season is over. There is no unifying theme and the season is somewhat schizophrenic, with earlier episodes having a distinct western atmosphere and the later ones forgetting all about it.

Yes. Exactly. But the good thing is that Season 2 hits the ground running using many of the elements laid out in season 1. There will come some points in season 2 that feel as aimless as season 1, but by the end of the season you shouldn't feel that it was as aimless as the first, and it ends with the promise of big things happening.


By the way, you might want to set aside a few hours for another marathon before starting season 2. You can watch the episodes individually if you like, but you might have more fun watching the first couple of episodes in one go.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

By the way, you might want to set aside a few hours for another marathon before starting season 2. You can watch the episodes individually if you like, but you might have more fun watching the first couple of episodes in one go.

There's more than two?

Yeah I just started watching season 2.

The Homecoming

I don't really have much to say, because I have no idea where the story is going. And I want to get back to the episodes.

First thing I noticed was that Bashir and O'Brien had different haircuts. And I really want to see that female friend of Quark's again.

The tone is just so different from season 1. Jumping immediately into ethnic nationalism, labour camps....

And the structure... perhaps it's because it's a "to be continued" episode, but as I was really getting tired from those plot A/plot B episodes in season 1, I felt a very refreshening difference about this episode.

I loved how O'Brien and Kira entered the camp. I felt that the beginning was a bit too fast-paced though.

I'm also loving how that... um... I don't know his name... legend guy shuns his popularity, shuns being a slave to his reputation. And that bit about killing a cardassian mass murderer in his underwear was just beautiful.

I'm thinking that political guy is evil. That whole "Kira has been called back to Bajor" was just so ominous. Is there a conspiracy going on? What was up with Cardassia's political response? Political opportunists, cardassian response... perhaps working together?

Okay, back to watching.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

The Circle

Oh, so this is like Enterprise season 4 - a three-parter! I love those.

Admiral Chakotay?

Anyway, the scene in the beginning in Kira's quarters was like something out of Buffy. Never have I seen this crazy interaction between characters in Trek before. That was just so wild and crazy. It's like a completely different show, but with the same characters.

Back in season finale, I thought that Vedek Bareil was a good guy. But now, he just came off as so creepy. God, I hope I haven't been like that when trying to score. But would explain a lot.

I'm thinking that he programmed the orb. Kira was just so unfocused when Sisko came to visit her.

Funny, I thought that Li Nalas guy would have been more involved in the story. I still hope he doesn't die, but he doesn't seem to have any real role anymore.

Eh, I was right about the political guy and the cardassians.

The whole situation reminds me of Russian 1990's. I believe they had a "constitutional crisis" with open urban gunfighting and tanks around the same time as this episode came out.

Now let's see the great alliance of ethnic nationalists and religious conservatives bring on the new glorious age for Bajor!

 

[Penta]

The best thing about In The Hands of the Prophets, apart from introducing a couple of important recurring characters, especially a great antagonist/villain in the form of Winn (I think I'm not spoiling anything by revealing that this is certainly not the last we've seen of her - in fact, she's back right at the start of season 2...), and kick-starting the storyline of Bajoran politics and religious leaders, is that it takes a surprisingly even-handed approach to religion (surprising when it comes to Star Trek), in Sisko's conversation with his son, which I've posted on TrekBBS in two threads in the last few weeks, so I'm just going to do it again

What amuses me: It's a great little speech/scene. For Trek, it's bravely even-handed.

But it gets the history re Galileo wrong. For one thing...The Church never burned his books. That's a generally Protestant habit, not a Catholic one. Catholics just ban the publication of a book. Much different, much less spectacular visuals.

But that, I'll admit, is kinda nitpicky. Overall, the episode kicks much ass.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

The Siege

Great. Li Nalas did wind up dead after all.

When it comes to three-parters this was in every way like the three-parters in Ent Season 4. Even down to the faults. Certain predictability in otherwise entertaining hours.

Like the fact that I was suspecting that political guy is evil and he was and that Li Nalas is going to die, and he did.

And like in Ent Season 4, the third episode was also the weakest, as it was just action and little on thought-provoking stuff.

There was a line I disliked. "Coup d'état. It's French." Just my philosophy that english in sci-fi shows is just a translation for us and that they're actually speaking some universal and shouldn't even remember old earth languages.

This was the first time when we saw the real Jadzia. On that plane, always complaining... I'm thinking that was Jadzia. As she was different from what we've seen so far... although being different is not that hard, because she just has to have lines other than technobabble in order to be different. And that was very cute actually.

But my favorite moment of the episode was: "You don't like combat rations? Miracle science these little combat rations. Time-released formula of all the nutrions the body needs for three days. I love them."

Made me want to eat combat rations too.

 

[Sykonee]

Eh, I was right about the political guy and the cardassians.

The guy was Skeletor! How could he not be the bad guy?

 

[JRS]

Eh, I was right about the political guy and the cardassians.

The guy was Skeletor! How could he not be the bad guy?

Indeed..because he also played Dracula, an evil pirate..and Richard Nixon
I think the three part Season 2 openers was a great way to start the season. There was a nice dosage of drama, action and humour...plus character development
I liked a lot personally the Kira and Dax moments with the old Bajoran fighter. It would have been nice to see more of the doghfight, though

 

[DevilEyes]

There was a line I disliked. "Coup d'état. It's French." Just my philosophy that english in sci-fi shows is just a translation for us and that they're actually speaking some universal and shouldn't even remember old earth languages.

Can't agree with you there. I'm pretty sure that the Federation standard they speak is English. You know that everything is leading that way in real life.

And how could they not remember "old" Earth languages? It's only been 300 years, they should all still be speaking those old Earth languages. Even if 1500-2000 years had passed and the languages changed beyond recognition, they'd have to be the biggest doofuses not to remember them. We still remember Latin for sure and you get quotes in it all the time, and people who study linguistics at the university have to learn languages like Old Slavic, Old English etc.

The Circle

Oh, so this is like Enterprise season 4 - a three-parter! I love those.

Admiral Chakotay?

Chekote. But it does sound similar.

Anyway, the scene in the beginning in Kira's quarters was like something out of Buffy. Never have I seen this crazy interaction between characters in Trek before. That was just so wild and crazy. It's like a completely different show, but with the same characters.

Back in season finale, I thought that Vedek Bareil was a good guy. But now, he just came off as so creepy. God, I hope I haven't been like that when trying to score. But would explain a lot.

You're the second or third person I've seen describe Bareil as "creepy". I'm not sure why. I certainly didn't find him creepy. when I first watched the show I actually had a lil' crush on him. He was hot... all nice and spiritual and all that stuff, I can see why Kira was interested.

I'm thinking that he programmed the orb. Kira was just so unfocused when Sisko came to visit her.

That's not how Orbs work. It was a real Orb vision. You just want to think the worst of the guy, don't you?

Eh, I was right about the political guy and the cardassians.

The guy was Skeletor! How could he not be the bad guy?

Indeed..because he also played Dracula, an evil pirate..and Richard Nixon

And Clare Quilty in Lolita!... But he was also Guinan's boyfriend, so he can't be all bad, can he?

Side comment: Frank Langella's Dracula was actually the first Dracula movie I ever saw, when I was 10... I loved him in it.

I was also pretty surprised to see Richard Beymer playing Li Nalas, who was so different from his character in Twin Peaks... I never even realized before that the guy is actually quite handsome, because I used to hate Ben Horne for being a sleezy pathetic annoying jerk!

 

[Pemmer Harge]

OK, the Circle trilogy. While I don't think this is quite as good as Duet and In the Hands of the Prophets it's a lot better than most of Season 1 and at least in retrospect looks like a bit of a statement of intent to take the show in more interesting directions. And Li Nalas, Minister Jaro and General Krim were great characters.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Can't agree with you there. I'm pretty sure that the Federation standard they speak is English. You know that everything is leading that way in real life.

I heard that chinese was going to become the new english.

Besides english as being federation standard is awfully imperalistic of those humans. No wonder that any alien culture interested in preservation of their own, hates the humans if they force everyone to speak english. I'd like to think there is some other federation standard... perhaps vulcanese, or simplified vulcan, or vulclish. Because of vulcans being the unifying galactic power before the humans, and because of the vulcan occupation that they now teach in schools as "the great 70 years of learning". Learning my ass.

The point is, I'd rather imagine Jake and Nog speaking to each other in some intergalactic trade language than mere english. Because Kira also said the word coup, she also speaking english? Or technically french. But why should bajorans, a proud people, during the time of crisis think in french?

So I've always imagined that it's just intergalactic trade language, and having Jake say that the word "coup" is french ruined everything.

 

[DevilEyes]

Can't agree with you there. I'm pretty sure that the Federation standard they speak is English. You know that everything is leading that way in real life.

I heard that chinese was going to become the new english.

Besides english as being federation standard is awfully imperalistic of those humans. No wonder that any alien culture interested in preservation of their own, hates the humans if they force everyone to speak english. I'd like to think there is some other federation standard... perhaps vulcanese, or simplified vulcan, or vulclish. Because of vulcans being the unifying galactic power before the humans, and because of the vulcan occupation that they now teach in schools as "the great 70 years of learning". Learning my ass.

Well, it is imperialistic. But that's exactly what the Humans in Trek are. Imperialistic in that sweet, nice, benevolent way, but still imperialistic. The Humans are clearly the dominant race in the Federation - Federation Council, Federation president's office and Starfleet headquarters are all located on Earth, and various aliens in Trek tend to regard the Humans and the Federation/Starfleet as the same, much as NATO is often seen as USA's force. Azetbur in Undiscovered Country regarded the Federation as "Homo Sapiens-only club". It is far more likely that an Earth language - probably English - is used as Federation standard, rather than a Vulcan language.

 

[TheGodBen]

One of the great things DS9 did was to make the Federation more murky and less goody-goody. In season 4 one of the recurring characters is going to make a speech about how the Federation is like a more insidious version of the Borg because they're both trying to assimilate the galaxy but at least the Borg are honest about it. The Federation has imperialistic tendencies just like all the other galactic powers, and one of the good things about DS9 is that they addressed that fact.

But the truth is that in the future we all speak Esperanto.


As for the Circle Trilogy, I really like them, they have religion, politics and conspiracies, and that's a big thumbs-up from me. Like this: The Siege isn't as good as the first two parts, and Li Nalas gets a bit lost after the first episode, but it's still an enjoyable story and the sort of thing they should have been doing in season 1.

Don't be expecting the rest of the season to be filled with three-parters like ENT season 4, the show is going to stick with the season 1 formula but the stories will be a bit more interconnected, and they're better overall.

First thing I noticed was that Bashir and O'Brien had different haircuts.

Wait until you see Jadzia at the beginning of season 3.

And I really want to see that female friend of Quark's again.

You will.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

In season 4 one of the recurring characters is going to make a speech about how the Federation is like a more insidious version of the Borg because they're both trying to assimilate the galaxy but at least the Borg are honest about it.

Spoiler: Season 4

I never really understood that speech. I mean, wasn't the Maquis's objection to the Federation the fact that they'd given up their territory to the Cardassians? If anything the Federation wasn't imperialistic enough for them.

 

[Eyes]

Spoiler: Season 4

I think that the Maquis' objection was that the Feds weren't just leaving them alone in the DMZ but were ripping up their farms to hand them over to the Cardassians over some treaty

Anyway..
Circle trilogy, not that bad as a season opener but there were a few too many faults, Li Nalas pretty much disappeared from the second 2 parts, then showed up again at the end to die, and there wasn't enough of a Bajoran civil war, just a short uprising and then quashed. I'll give it this, it really helped flesh out the Bajorans, who before this weren't that strong a presence onscreen, with episodes like Past Prologue and The Storyteller doing little more than establishing them as either terrorists or religious loonies.

 

[TheGodBen]

Spoiler: Season 4

I never really understood that speech. I mean, wasn't the Maquis's objection to the Federation the fact that they'd given up their territory to the Cardassians? If anything the Federation wasn't imperialistic enough for them.

Spoiler: Season 4

It could be argued that the Federation were siding with the Cardassians over the Maquis by handing over the industrial replicators, because the Federation felt that the Cardassian Union would be a better member of the Federation than some farmers turned terrorist. In that sense the Federation are acting very much like the Borg, siding with the planets which would lead to a more perfect Union and ignoring the crappy worlds.

I'm not saying that's the case, but that could be how Eddington perceived it.

 

[Teiwaz]

The point is, I'd rather imagine Jake and Nog speaking to each other in some intergalactic trade language than mere english. Because Kira also said the word coup, she also speaking english? Or technically french. But why should bajorans, a proud people, during the time of crisis think in french?

So I've always imagined that it's just intergalactic trade language, and having Jake say that the word "coup" is french ruined everything.

Nog is speaking in his native dialect, and Jake in his (or at least I expect he is).
In 'Little Green Men' when the Ferengi crash on earth they're heard speaking by humans without Universal Translaters in thier ears, and the Ferengi later can't understand them until they've 'reset' theirs. So I'd assume that all crew wear them. Whether 'coup de tat' had to be explained as it translater didn't translate it 'cause of its french roots or there was not a equatable word in the lisiteners language you can decide for yourself.

I do recall Picard got annoyed with Data for talking offhand about french being a dead language. I always thought that was a nice moment.

I don't think they got the sound of english right though, I once almost fell asleep to the DVD menu for 'Saphire and Steele" with its vocal intro about 'elements' and time, my mind stop translating the words after a while and I could hear how english sounded to foreign ears that were my own. Arggh - Stop drinking coffee..

Most countries of the world (or at least the english speaking ones) don't really put a lot of emphasis on second languages, most dutch I've met have good english though, and Sesame street had a lot of spanish, but visiting Italy recently I was quite impressed by their morning tv in that several programs for young children seemed to have one character speaking english or another foreign language all the time.

I was on an Aer Lingus flight a little while ago to spain and their cabin announcements were in english and irish, but not spanish - odd that...