Photonic torpedoes

[Timo]

To be sure, torpedoes in the real world have stayed the same externally for a century or more. There's a worldwide standardization to 533mm/21in caliber and counterrotating propellers that has worked very well and keeps on working. Additional "microtorps" have been introduced for ship, helicopter or coastal submarine use when the target is a submarine, but the 533mm torp remains the sole size and shape in antiship applications. Of course, the warhead no longer is TNT or even Torpex - there are advanced explosives, shaped charges, and nuclear tips. And the powerplant and guidance have changed several times, too.

There would be many advantages to standardizing the caliber like this in Star Trek, too. Why change that which works, when change would mean loss of compatibility?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[blssdwlf]

...As far as the photon torpedoes go, regardless of whether they were in casings or just scary blobs, they did turn to hit Nomad in "The Changeling" so perhaps very smart scary blobs...

I must admit, I don't remember them changing course! From the episode:

SULU: Photon torpedoes armed, sir.
KIRK: Has the target changed location, Mister Spock?
SPOCK: No, sir. Holding steady.
KIRK: Ready photon torpedo number two, Mister Sulu.
SULU: Ready, sir.
KIRK: Fire.
SULU: Torpedo away. (a pause, then a flash) Direct hit.
SPOCK: No effect. Target absorbed full energy of our torpedo.

In fact, it sounds like the target had to be in a given location before a PT could be fired.

BTW, I like your reasoning about the BOT fire control room, the need for secondary weapons and so forth. That makes a lot of sense!

Thanks Yeah, "The Changeling" seems to imply that Nomad stayed "bearing 123 mk 18 range 90,000km" and the Enterprise fired a single torp which made a turn at some point to hit Nomad.

 

[T'Girl]

Have always wondered if the torpedo fired while sublight and the torpedo fired at warp are the same weapon. Why fire a torpedo with a warp drive if you don't need the extra speed, assuming that the two torpedoes are the same size, the sublight only type would possess more internal spaces for warhead, sensors and fuel. Maybe countermeasure decoys too.

 

[Deks]

The only difference I see between a photonic and photon torpedo, is that the photon torpedo is the result of advances in the understanding of how to harness power from an atom, the same with the quantum torpedo used in the 24th century. The more advanced the torpedo is, the deeper the source of power inside the atom is.

That's the real problem. there is NO change

They're the same size as torpedoes with not difference in shape. They glow and take out ships...

No change in 250 years of complex weapon making...absurd.

It would be absurd to assume that there were no major differences between Photonic and Photon torpedoes.

Timo for example makes an excellent point in this retrospect.

At the same time, I do not think that SF would continue to use the outer casing of a torpedo for much longer.
The quantum torpedo might shift things into a different direction, and we have no idea how Tri-Cobalt devices look like for example, or Romulan Plasma torpedoes.

 

[blssdwlf]

Have always wondered if the torpedo fired while sublight and the torpedo fired at warp are the same weapon. Why fire a torpedo with a warp drive if you don't need the extra speed, assuming that the two torpedoes are the same size, the sublight only type would possess more internal spaces for warhead, sensors and fuel. Maybe countermeasure decoys too.

Maybe that's why Kirk sometimes picked specific tubes (tubes 2,4,6, etc) - because there were different types? Although I do think that torps would always use warp motor unit as a warp unit would run better even at sublight than an impulse unit (based on TOS dialogue)...

 

[Timo]

Indeed, it might be that the difference between a warp torpedo and a sublight torpedo lies not in hardware. Nor in software, for that matter - but in things like loadup and settings. Say, when you want to fire your torpedo at warp, you set the valves so that the warp engine eats up a lot of the onboard antimatter and gives the torpedo a high speed (but reduces the explosive yield at target). When you want a short range shot, you set the valves so that the engine gets very little and most of the antimatter reaches the destination and annihilates there.

Thus, you can select the mode of the torpedo basically at the last moment, or perhaps even alter it inflight unless your communications to the weapon are jammed.

A clumsier system might feature a robotic loader that inserts the desired set of innards into the casing shortly before launch. Such robotics could be the reason for the extensive facility we see in ST2. And that facility could be completely automated, once a group of cadets removes the peacetime covers and safety rails and dusts off the consoles - and could work at lightning speed after the initial torpedo has been taken through the paces and the status of the system verified.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[PrimeDirective]

There are differences between a photonic, photon, and quantum torpedo. The photonic torpedo is the manipulation and control of light combined with antimatter, in such a way that it yields a tightly packed and destructive sphere of energy. The casing is constructed of a material that is able to contain this combinaton, thus protecting the crew from the harmful radiation that exists when using any kind of energy. The photo torpedo is essentially the same thing as the photonic torpedo, but because of the advances in the understanding of weaponizing energy, is a more destructive one. The quantum torpedo is the deadliest of them them all, because it's power comes from the deepest recesses of an atom: The quantum level. We all know that the deeper the level is in an atom, the more destructive its energies are.

 

[Mytran]

Why would you want to combine light with antimatter - and even assuming you could get it to interact, it would be incredibly difficult! Much easier to combine it with an equal amount of normal matter, which would result in TOTAL ANNIHILATION of both sets of atoms and all the energy stored therein.

 

[PrimeDirective]

Light is normal matter.

 

[Myasishchev]

...What?

 

[PrimeDirective]

I was just replying to a comment made by "Mytran."

 

[blssdwlf]

Light is normal matter.

That's interesting considering that light aka photons have no rest mass. What exactly would the antimatter react against?

 

[PrimeDirective]

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/RestMass.html . I think you should read this, because it's going to prove that I am right

 

[blssdwlf]

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/RestMass.html . I think you should read this, because it's going to prove that I am right

Not trying to prove you right or wrong primedirective. Just asking how light/photons would get antimatter to react (for torpedoes, to annihilate each other). Sure, they have momentum and equivalent mass but they aren't "matter" in the traditional sense. How would they react with antimatter?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

There would be many advantages to standardizing the caliber like this in Star Trek, too. Why change that which works, when change would mean loss of compatibility?

Because:
1) Starfleet didn't invent photon torpedoes, so using a Klingon standardization would make no sense
2) Despite your claims, torpedoes are NOT actually standardized, as many Russian designs use torpedo tubes of various sizes in order to support different types of cruise missiles and
3) Even torpedo tubes don't seem to be standardized, considering that the muzzle of the Galaxy's torpedo tube is large enough to enclose a small shuttlecraft.

It makes perfect sense for Starfleet to prefer a particular upper limit size for its weapons, but that sense goes out the window when both larger and smaller sizes are excluded. Any argument for standardization becomes irrelevant, also, every time a torpedo tube is shown firing something OTHER than a photon torpedo (including probes, spatial torpedoes and phaser blasts).

At the same time, I do not think that SF would continue to use the outer casing of a torpedo for much longer.
The quantum torpedo might shift things into a different direction, and we have no idea how Tri-Cobalt devices look like for example, or Romulan Plasma torpedoes.

Unfortunately, even quantum torpedoes seen in "The Valiant" have the same casing as standard photon torpedoes.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/RestMass.html . I think you should read this, because it's going to prove that I am right

It actually does nothing of the sort. But we appreciate your enthusiasm.

 

[PrimeDirective]

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/RestMass.html . I think you should read this, because it's going to prove that I am right

It actually does nothing of the sort. But we appreciate your enthusiasm.

It does. According to the page, if matter is traveling at a certain speed, it does have mass, so light is considered normal matter.

 

[PrimeDirective]

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/RestMass.html . I think you should read this, because it's going to prove that I am right

Not trying to prove you right or wrong primedirective. Just asking how light/photons would get antimatter to react (for torpedoes, to annihilate each other). Sure, they have momentum and equivalent mass but they aren't "matter" in the traditional sense. How would they react with antimatter?

I'm sorry if I came off as aggressive; I didn't mean to. How is light not matter in 'the traditional sense'?

 

[Mytran]

When you're talking about a unit of light, the usual designation is photon. There is an interesting article about the mass of photons here.

 

[PrimeDirective]

When you're talking about a unit of light, the usual designation is photon. There is an interesting article about the mass of photons here.

Thanks for the article