Voyager & Christianity/Religion

[borg_curious]

I have just started watching the earlier Voyager episodes (season 1-3) for the first time, give or take a few random episodes. I just watched "Tattoo" and have included a quote from that episode below. The conversation is between Janeway & Chakotay and it is pretty clear to me that faith in Christianity is disregarded in favor of evolution...is this the main philosophy in the future?

Many alien species that have been encountered in the Trek universe have dealt with their own religious beliefs and usually include an afterlife. Do we ever witness a display of Christian faith (worship/prayers) amongst any of the Voyager crew?

I am still new to Voyager, so bear with me for being a novice. Also, if any of this has been discussed before I apologize. I was just curious if Christian beliefs are relevant in the Trek universe.

CHAKOTAY: I can give you an official Rubber Tree People theory if you like. Sky Spirits.
JANEWAY: Sky Spirits?
CHAKOTAY: It's an ancient myth. Sky Spirits from above created the first Rubber People in their own image and led the way to a sacred land where the Rubber People would live for eternity.
JANEWAY: You obviously don't put a great deal of faith in this explanation.
CHAKOTAY: How much faith do you put in Adam and Eve? Hasn't science proved that all humans developed from a single evolutionary process?
JANEWAY: That's what I was always taught. On the other hand, none of my teachers ever spent much time in the Delta Quadrant.

 

[exodus]

The concept of "faith" in general is explored in eps. like "Sacred Ground" & in ep. where Neelix dies.(I'm drawing a blank on the title.) In the latter, the idea of an afterlife is left up to the viewer on what you believe awaits you after death. In "Sacred Ground" the idea of faith can be taken w/ religion or by itself as a motivational tool to strive to over come the impossable. In "Omega Directive", Seven deals with the concept of "God" as the aspect of being "perfect" in his/her/it's image.

Our own world is multi-cultural and consisting of many different beliefs & faiths. Seeing as how Trek is also shown internationally, it's safer to have the human Starfleet officers show no bias or no affiliation to any faith. That way the viewer can associate any character with any faith/religion they see fit or even none at all.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

it is pretty clear to me that faith in Christianity is disregarded in favor of evolution...

These two things are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Udat]

Whats the point of this question? Is religon relevant in Star trek? Not sure. I think Star Fleet encouraged everyone to express themselves almost unhindered regardless?! Sorry battling with this question, don`t want to stand on anyones toes.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

As exodus has suggested, Trek tries to not step on any toes when it comes to religion. Just like it hides Black-White issues, or Middle Eastern/ Western under the guise of Klingons, Romulans, or Kazons, it hides religious issues under the guise of other alien philosophies. Its less messy that way.

If you are asking whether there are "ever" any illustrations of Christianity in the future, I would send you back to the original series and the planet where Roman civilization prospered into its version of the 20th century.

If you are asking if there are ever any allusions to Christianity in Voyager, I would direct you to the eps with the Davinci Holoprogram.

If you wonder whether there is ever a discussion of faith and the unknowable, then I agree with exodus who pointed you to the episode "Sacred Ground". It takes the woman (KJ) who admits to being a secular scientist (we aren't all secular) and teaches her what faith is all about.

Its a powerful ep, and one of the few that I love just for the last 5 seconds as we watch Janeway walk away in thought.

 

[T'Girl]

CHAKOTAY: How much faith do you put in Adam and Eve? Hasn't science proved that all humans developed from a single evolutionary process?
JANEWAY: That's what I was always taught. On the other hand, none of my teachers ever spent much time in the Delta Quadrant.

Notice Janeway doesn't say "That's what I believe." Her reply to Chakotay lack a certain amount of conviction.

Seeing as how Trek is also shown internationally, it's safer to have the human Starfleet officers show no bias or no affiliation to any faith.

Christianity says Adam and Eve. Islam says Adam and his (unnamed) mate. Judaism say Adam and Eve (or Hawwa). Hinduism says Manu and Shatarupa. That's about 3.6 billion people. If Star Trek wanted to avoid international controversial with it's viewers, you'd think TPTB would refrain from mentioning evolution.

It would have been nice if in one of the series, if there had been just one episode where the characters just came out and discussed this matter.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

In one sense, there was an episode where they discussed the matter of evolution. IIRC, it was in TNG, and Picard with a nudge from an old Professor, discovered that the genetic code of all humanoids was seeded upon the different planets by a earlier race, and within their genes held the puzzle to who that race was.

Evolution was also mentioned in the TNG finale, when Picard witnessed what happens when the primordial soup was disturbed on Earth 3.5 billion years ago and those first proteins DIDN'T get together. (Darn those anomalies)

 

[brcarthey]

...in ep. where Neelix dies.(I'm drawing a blank on the title.) .

mortal coil

 

[Admiral Shran]

I was just curious if Christian beliefs are relevant in the Trek universe.

I would direct you to the Enterprise episode Cold Front. At one point Doctor Phlox says, in a throw-away line, that he attended a mass at St. Peter's in Rome when he first arrived on Earth, in an attempt to familiarize himself with as many Human religions as possible. So, at least in the twenty-second century, Christianity and other religions are still around and fully functioning.

Whether or not they're still around in the twenty-third and twenty-fourth centuries is a little more unclear, as Trek only refers to them in very round-about ways. For example....

1.) The Enterprise has a chapel in TOS: Balance of Terror.
2.) Kirk implies that Humans believe in one God in TOS: Who Mourns for Adonais?
3.) Christmas parties are held on the Enterprise in TOS: Dagger of the Mind.
4.) Joseph Sisko quotes the Bible (2 Timothy 4:7) is DS9: Far Beyond the Stars.
5.) Crusher's grandmother received a Christian burial, with more biblical verses quoted in TNG: Sub Rosa.
6.) Picard's version of the Nexus was a traditional Christmas celebration in Star Trek Generations.
7.) In DS9: The Ship, it's stated that Carnival, a traditional celebration before the beginning of Lent, is still celebrated in the twenty-fourth century.
8.) Kassidy Yates says her mother would want her to be married by a minister in DS9: Penumbra.
9.) Data refers to how the Hindu Festival of Lights is being celebrated on the Enterprise-D in TNG: Data's Day.

So, my personal opinion is that Christianity, and other religions, are still around by the twenty-fourth century. However, the writers simply do not focus on any stories where it would be essential to show this.

 

[TheGodBen]

The conversation is between Janeway & Chakotay and it is pretty clear to me that faith in Christianity is disregarded in favor of evolution...is this the main philosophy in the future?

Firstly, as The Mirrorball Man said, there's nothing preventing an acceptance of both, the majority of Christians in the world today accept evolution. Secondly, evolution is not a philosophy, it is a scientific theory that fits with all the evidence and which has been observed. It is as close to a fundamental truth as you are going to get in science.

Star Trek was created by Gene Roddenberry, and Gene was an atheist, he took a much harder line in his atheism than I do. In TOS he threw in some references to Christianity because it was the 60s and he pretty much had to, but when it came to creating TNG he decided to create his "perfect" vision of the future, a future where there was no conflict, no poverty or disease (at least on Earth), no capitalist greed, and no religion. The best example of this is TNG's Who Watches the Watchers where Picard gives a very forceful speech about how religion holds societies back. Here's a quote from Gene:

I condemn false prophets, I condemn the effort to take away the power of rational decision, to drain people of their free will -- and a hell of a lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in their degree of idiocy, but I reject them all. For most people, religion is nothing more than a substitute for a malfunctioning brain.

Once Gene was forced to take a step back from TNG, and eventually die, the writers became more open to including forms of faith in Star Trek, a lot of it was new-aged nonsense while some of it tried to be respectful of other alien's religious beliefs (such as the faith in the Prophets on DS9). But I don't think there was ever a confirmation of the existence of Christianity in the 24th century.

And for what it is worth, one of the most influential writers on Voyager, Brannon Braga, was also an atheist.

 

[exodus]

Seeing as how Trek is also shown internationally, it's safer to have the human Starfleet officers show no bias or no affiliation to any faith.

Christianity says Adam and Eve. Islam says Adam and his (unnamed) mate. Judaism say Adam and Eve (or Hawwa). Hinduism says Manu and Shatarupa. That's about 3.6 billion people. If Star Trek wanted to avoid international controversial with it's viewers, you'd think TPTB would refrain from mentioning evolution.

Why?

I would like to believe that even folks that believe in creation are aware of the concept of evolution. Trek isn't enforcing any believe but it shouldn't shy away from letting the audience know there are choices.

 

[Udat]

Toes people lets not forget our toes!

 

[exodus]

Toes people lets not forget our toes!

What?
Are we getting a pedicure?



What up, Udat.
Long time, no see.
You've been missed.

Very sexy picture BTW, you handsome Devil you.

 

[Deckerd]

Christianity says Adam and Eve. Islam says Adam and his (unnamed) mate. Judaism say Adam and Eve (or Hawwa). Hinduism says Manu and Shatarupa. That's about 3.6 billion people. If Star Trek wanted to avoid international controversial with it's viewers, you'd think TPTB would refrain from mentioning evolution.

You are joking of course. What does religion have to do with evolution?

 

[CoveTom]

At the risk of repeating some of what has already been said, I'd like to make two points:

1. Janeway seems to actually express some doubt that what she was taught about evolution is correct. Or, at the very least, she is open to the possibility of exploring the question. Her comment about her teachers having never been in the Delta Quadrant would suggest she's still open to the possibility that there are many things science has not yet considered. So I don't take that conversation as an absolute repudiation of the possibility of creation. And, frankly, I find that to be the best type of scientific approach. "Yes, this is what I've been taught, and this is what seems to make the most sense by our current understanding but, y'know, it could all be wrong and I allow for that possibility."

2. Christianity and evolution are not opposites. They are not mutually exclusive. To accept one does not imply denial of the other. Yes, there are some Christians who believe in a literal interpretation of creation as presented in Genesis. Young Earth creationists, as I believe they are called. There are many others who do not. I, personally, am a Roman Catholic, which is the single largest Christian denomination in the world. And yet my religion does not reject evolution. It does not reject creation either, in fact. It leaves that decision up to the individual believer.

Catholicism's stance is that the basic tenants expressed by Genesis, that God was the originator of all life and that he imbued human beings with an immortal soul that separated them from the animals, are correct. The particular method that God used to accomplish this, whether creation, evolution, or some combination of the two is rather unimportant. And I know there are many members of other Christian denominations who feel the same way. So to accept evolution is not to reject Christianity, religion, God or anything of the sort and, thus, Trek and its characters are not taking a stance one way or the other on religion just because they accept evolution.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Christianity says Adam and Eve. Islam says Adam and his (unnamed) mate. Judaism say Adam and Eve (or Hawwa). Hinduism says Manu and Shatarupa. That's about 3.6 billion people. If Star Trek wanted to avoid international controversial with it's viewers, you'd think TPTB would refrain from mentioning evolution.

You are joking of course. What does religion have to do with evolution?

Some idiots insist they are mutually exclusive because planet Earth is only 6000 years old and that dinosaurs are just a divine practical joke to test our faith.

I have met so many Christians that say "Dude that's just an allegory, can you chill?" and I've met a couple extreme fundamentalists too who are hilarious as they stick to the literal interpretation of the bible according to their faction.

VOY: Distant Origin pisses on a the usual suspects as it apes the extreme sort of thinking that got Galileo locked in his room for the last years of his life.

 

[T'Girl]

I would like to believe that even folks that believe in creation are aware of the concept of evolution. Trek isn't enforcing any believe but it shouldn't shy away from letting the audience know there are choices.

Nicely said.

 

[Destructor]

I was just curious if Christian beliefs are relevant in the Trek universe.

Trek is interesting because it's primary message is one of tolerance (IDIC), meaning that no Starfleet person would ever dismiss a person's beliefs out of hand- the best example I can think of this is when Sisko rebukes Jake for calling the Bajoran beliefs 'stupid'. However it's also a show that has a great enthusiasm for science, for discovering the truth, be that scientific truth, historical truth or personal truth. I can't imagine Starfleet, Picard, Janeway or any of the other characters we so admire abandoning such a well-supported theory as evolution simply because an ancient, apocryphal text told them to do so.

Gene's original conception of the Trek universe was that humanity had 'outgrown' religion and left it behind. Ron Moore rightly thought this was unrealistic, humanity will always fear the unknown and look for answers about our spiritual life, a subject much explored on DS9.

To say that evolution somehow denies religion or faith is extremely limited thinking- watch more Trek for many examples of this.

 

[CoveTom]

Gene's original conception of the Trek universe was that humanity had 'outgrown' religion and left it behind. Ron Moore rightly thought this was unrealistic, humanity will always fear the unknown and look for answers about our spiritual life, a subject much explored on DS9.

Minor point of correction here: That wasn't Roddenberry's ORIGINAL conception of Trek. There's plenty of references to religion in TOS. Heck, Roddenberry himself even co-wrote "Bread and Circuses." The "evolved past religion" thing was his revised post-TOS perfect humanity utopian idea of Trek. The two were vastly different, as discovered by anyone who later came into the Trek universe and had run-ins with Roddenberry over what Trek should be, like Harve Bennett, Nicholas Meyer, and Ron Moore. Moore was more a believer in the original TOS vision of Trek, and so am I.

 

[kimc]

Some idiots insist they are mutually exclusive because planet Earth is only 6000 years old and that dinosaurs are just a divine practical joke to test our faith.

Referring to those with beliefs different from yours while posting on this bbs as "idiots" generates notifications. Quite frankly I'd rather be enjoying my morning coffee than dealing with notifications thankyouverymuch.

This topic has the potential to generate some interesting discussion. Let's not blow it by throwing insults. Let's see some IDIC in action.