A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

[Lindley]

The Techno-mages aren't seen much in B5 (since they're going into hiding, that's not surprising). They have a somewhat more visible profile in the short-lived spin-off.

It wasn't until I read the novels, specifics the Passing of the Techno-Mages trilogy, that I really came to appreciate their potential as characters. Basically, these guys are the Jedi of B5.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

As for the b-plot, I loved the simplicity of the greens and purples killing one another for such a silly reason. Well, it's silly to me, I'm sure it makes sense to them.

I love the Drazi. I've always considered them the heart of Babylon Five.

Why are you so opposed to each other? Why are you fighting? Can't you see you're actually no different in any meaningful way?!

Narns and Centauri
Minbari and humans
Mundanes and telepaths
Earth and Mars

Spoiler: Later developments on Babylon-5

Vorlons and Shadows
Religious Caste and Warrior Caste

Green and Purple.

One of those on this list is different, because they actually know the two sides are really essentially alike. The Drazi are quite wise really. No, honestly. They actually openly admit the two sides have no real differences, and that the reasons for hating are artificial because they're making artificial differences.

They've taken the opposing forces of order and chaos and made them work together- chaos is order for them, order is chaos. Their unified government stems from a division and a conflict. They are united as a people by the division.

They're a wise race in their way (I'd say in some ways wiser than humans, Narn, Centauri and Minbari), but everyone underestimates them because they speak in macros and like brawling.

No-one here is exactly as they appear...

 

[Canadave]

I was so disappointed by "The Geometry of Shadows" because it had a title that made it sound like there would be Important Happenings, but alas, it was not to be.

 

[Kegg]

Sorry, but this is just one of those things I find too silly to take seriously.

To a certain extent I think JMS wants basically to put fantasy tropes into his sci-fi show. In essence, he wants wizards, so he inserts 'techno' to the start of mages so he can have his elder prophetic people making grand sweeping statements. They're really of a part and parcel with his Holy Grail searcher from the first season in terms of tone; and it's a consistent idea that will continue to emerge.

That said, I thought Michael Ansara really sold the role. But then, damn, I just love that guy's voice. And who doesn't?

Spoiler: Crusade

This is also by far the best use of the Technomages. Galen is a completely insufferable character who can frequently be as bad as Byron.

As for the b-plot, I loved the simplicity of the greens and purples killing one another for such a silly reason. Well, it's silly to me, I'm sure it makes sense to them.

Yeah, this is one of the comic plots from B5 I absolutely love. I do feel the series is hit and miss on the subject (even when limited to the field of 'aliens do weird things') but the Green/Purple scenario is one of the funniest things in the series run.

 

[Lindley]

Disagree on that spoiler tag claim. I liked the guy.

 

[Kegg]

I don't hate him (just generally dislike him), but don't you want to punch him just once? He has that sort of attitude.

 

[Jan]

A bit of trivia regarding "Geometry of Shadows"...originally Ivanova was supposed to get herself out of trouble but she really did break her foot just before shooting was to begin which required a quick re-write.

Jan

 

[sidious618]

I don't hate him (just generally dislike him), but don't you want to punch him just once? He has that sort of attitude.

No, never; he was awesome.

 

[chrisspringob]

I was so disappointed by "The Geometry of Shadows" because it had a title that made it sound like there would be Important Happenings, but alas, it was not to be.

Again, this is an artifact of knowing spoilers about the show before watching it. To a newbie who's never read any spoilers, at this point in the series, there's no reason to think the word "shadow" is of any significance.

 

[RoJoHen]

I was so disappointed by "The Geometry of Shadows" because it had a title that made it sound like there would be Important Happenings, but alas, it was not to be.

Again, this is an artifact of knowing spoilers about the show before watching it. To a newbie who's never read any spoilers, at this point in the series, there's no reason to think the word "shadow" is of any significance.

Even if you don't know anything about The Shadows, the title of that episode does make it seem like it would be kind of awesome.

It's one thing that early B5 did that bothered me. Some of the lamer episodes have really intriguing titles.

 

[Brian]

I was so disappointed by "The Geometry of Shadows" because it had a title that made it sound like there would be Important Happenings, but alas, it was not to be.

Again, this is an artifact of knowing spoilers about the show before watching it. To a newbie who's never read any spoilers, at this point in the series, there's no reason to think the word "shadow" is of any significance.

Agreed. That's one thing which has bothered me about these reviews. Paraphrasing, we see a lot of "... which was supposed to be some big surprise, but I know what's coming, so it really fell flat..."

You can't blame the show for your spoiler knowledge.

 

[Brian]

Even if you don't know anything about The Shadows, the title of that episode does make it seem like it would be kind of awesome.

It's one thing that early B5 did that bothered me. Some of the lamer episodes have really intriguing titles.

The title didn't tell me it was supposed to be awesome. It just told me that the creators of the show are literary and have a bent for language.

It said nothing to me about "the" Shadows, nor did it make me expect to see them featured. I took it to be about the technomages. How they use technology (geometry) to create "magic" (shadows).

 

[Fist McStrongpunch]

I was so disappointed by "The Geometry of Shadows" because it had a title that made it sound like there would be Important Happenings, but alas, it was not to be.

Again, this is an artifact of knowing spoilers about the show before watching it. To a newbie who's never read any spoilers, at this point in the series, there's no reason to think the word "shadow" is of any significance.

Unless you've seen Signs and Portents.

 

[Kegg]

Again, this is an artifact of knowing spoilers about the show before watching it. To a newbie who's never read any spoilers, at this point in the series, there's no reason to think the word "shadow" is of any significance.

We-ell.

Last year "Signs and Portents" had a character die who said it had been prophecied by his aunt that he'd be killed by shadows; and JMS was already using the term 'Shadowmen' in internet conversations at this point.

 

[RoJoHen]

Even if you don't know anything about The Shadows, the title of that episode does make it seem like it would be kind of awesome.

It's one thing that early B5 did that bothered me. Some of the lamer episodes have really intriguing titles.

The title didn't tell me it was supposed to be awesome. It just told me that the creators of the show are literary and have a bent for language.

It said nothing to me about "the" Shadows, nor did it make me expect to see them featured. I took it to be about the technomages. How they use technology (geometry) to create magic (shadows).

It didn't tell me anything about The Shadows either. But I do remember thinking it was a neat title, and I was expecting something neat from it.

 

[Brian]

Last year "Signs and Portents" had a character die who said it had been prophecied by his aunt that he'd be killed by shadows; and JMS was already using the term 'Shadowmen' in internet conversations at this point.

Frankly, I thought the aliens in "Signs and Portents" could have been one-offs, like

Spoiler: an alien race

the First Ones, which seemed to be just that until much later in the series.

And internet conversations by JMS? Again, we shouldn't blame the show for our own spoiler knowledge.

 

[Reverend]

I think I saw or read a statement by JMS somewhere that the seed of the idea for the Techno-mages came from that old Arthur C. Clarke quote: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

If they're not to your taste, fret not. They won't been seen again for quite a while. Though it was never said onscreen (though it would've been had Crusade not been cancelled) their origins and history fit right in to the show's mythos so they're not as incongruous as they might first appear.

And internet conversations by JMS? Again, we shouldn't blame the show for our own spoiler knowledge.

I have to say, when the show was first aired, I personally didn't have an internet connection, neither I imagine did a lot of people.

 

[chrisspringob]

I was so disappointed by "The Geometry of Shadows" because it had a title that made it sound like there would be Important Happenings, but alas, it was not to be.

Again, this is an artifact of knowing spoilers about the show before watching it. To a newbie who's never read any spoilers, at this point in the series, there's no reason to think the word "shadow" is of any significance.

Even if you don't know anything about The Shadows, the title of that episode does make it seem like it would be kind of awesome.

It's one thing that early B5 did that bothered me. Some of the lamer episodes have really intriguing titles.

IMHO, virtually all of the titles in Season 2 are pretty darn cool. Both good and bad episodes alike.

Last year "Signs and Portents" had a character die who said it had been prophecied by his aunt that he'd be killed by shadows;

And the average viewer is going to remember that line of dialogue, and extrapolate that any title with the word "shadow" means a really important episode?

and JMS was already using the term 'Shadowmen' in internet conversations at this point.

Spoilers from JMS are still spoilers. And this was 1994. Not nearly as many people were online. And most of those who were were not following Usenet posts by JMS. Of the millions of people watching the show ever week, how many do you actually think were following JMS's postings? Probably a fairly tiny number.

[Heck, what fraction of the millions of people watching the show at that point were even paying attention to the titles of the episodes, and could have told you that that episode was called "Geometry of Shadows"? Yes, among sci-fi fandom, it's more common for fans to pay attention to episode titles than in other genres, but there are plenty of people who don't. Most of the people I know IRL who follow even "geeky" shows like B5 don't pay that much attention to episode titles.]

 

[TheGodBen]

That said, I thought Michael Ansara really sold the role. But then, damn, I just love that guy's voice. And who doesn't?

Deaf people. Only deaf people cannot love that voice. Put him in a scene with Keith David and I'd have to change my underwear.

Frankly, I thought the aliens in "Signs and Portents" could have been one-offs

I don't see why you'd think that, that weird smiling man was clearly connected to those aliens in some way and he was clearly connected to them again in Chrysalis, and given all the talk of a great darkness encroaching, and G'Kar's tying that up with the attack on the Narn base, it's clear to anybody that is paying attention that these guys are important. Admittedly people told me that Signs and Portents was going to be important before I watched it, but I'd like to think that I would have connected the dots without being told that.

 

[Neroon]

I don't hate him (just generally dislike him), but don't you want to punch him just once? He has that sort of attitude.

Not after you've met the guy in person.