^I rather like the suggestion that "I could care less" is Yiddish-influenced sarcasm. It would explain a lot. It's pretty hard to mishear "I couldn't care less" as "I could care less," because the cadences are entirely different.
430 crew?
- Thread starter Otto von Grunwa
- Start date
I've never heard “mondegreen” used to mean anything other than misheard song lyrics.
The example given by Merriam-Webster, very close veins, is a malapropism or an eggcorn.
Oh, did this thread have a topic?
I've read and heard mondegreen used as simply a misheard phrase. Usually a song lyric, but not always, just a phrase said aloud.
Varicose veins said aloud can be misheard as "very close veins" thus being a mondegreen as defined by Websters. The meaning obviously altered as well. One being swollen and painful, the other sharing close proximity.
It isn't a malapropism because it isn't substituting a similar-sounding word for another. The famous malapropism example, "He is the pineapple of politeness" as opposed to "He is the pinnacle of politeness."
Nor can it be an eggcorn since it doesn't replace "varicose" with just one word in the phrase that has a similar sound, or homophone. In this case, two words (very close) have replaced a single word (varicose) but neither are a homophone of the other.
This is the case, at least, if we go with Grammar Girl's assessment of the differences in spoonerisms, mondegreens, eggcorns, and malapropisms.
Ain't grammar grand?
It's possible that they off loaded much of the sciences complement. In Elaan of Troyius Uhura surrendered her quarters to the Dolman. Much of the crew might have been sleeping on the flight deck and in the lower corridors. And with a hundred dignitaries there would have also been aboard spouses, aids, sycophants, belly dancers, etc.. So rec rooms and cargo holds would have been converted to sleeping spaces. Some of the ambassadors require special atmospheres and some are aquatic, the Enterprise's internal space are likely designed for easy conversion.There was also Journey to Babel where the Enterprise was carrying a little over 100 dignitaries. Unless the Enterprise offloaded some crew to account for the extra people (not mentioned in episode) then there were 500+ on board for the episode. It must've been even more packed in
Electric boots has no flare. Electric boobs fires your imagination up.
It certainly does!
What exactly are “electric boots,” anyway? Do they light up in the dark? Walk by themselves? Massage your feet? Or are they some fiendish torture device?
Actually, it would be interesting if some of our mathematically inclined members could do a rough calculation of the total square area of the deck space on the TOS Enterprise, and compare it with the available space on a comparable modern naval vessel. Any volunteers?
Beats me, but during the horrible, horrible time of the Disco I saw a guy who had platform boots with water - and goldfish - in the heels.
^Was his name Stu?
Al, actually. "Angry Al."
You know, the notion of "electric boobs" is kinda scary. Touch them and you might get "juiced"!
Given some of the impressive musings posted by Shaw and many others in the Trek Tech and Art forums, I would think the saucer section of the TOS Enterprise alone would have more than sufficient internal volume to house all 400+ Enterprise crew and the Federation dignitaries in "Journey to Babel" and also be able to hold whatever stores and machinery it would take to tend to their mission and needs.
As the grandson of a former Seabee who ended the Second World War as a CPO and also as the son of a former D.I. for the Army, I have to say that I don't have any problem with those background characters in the mono-colored jumpsuits being enlisted. The show makes more sense to me that way. And no, I don't equate the notion of "enlisted" with that of "grunt". Officers in the military are supposed to be generalists, whereas enlisted personnel are supposed to be specialists. So TOS obviously has both of those. The real question is how they were organized and how they related. It's silly to argue that Federation starships didn't have any military characteristics when they obviously did, just as it is silly for so many gaming-minded fans to pretend that the TOS Universe could be so militaristic.
Of course, TOS was very much a work in progress when TMOST was published. As such, it should not be surprising that there are inconsistencies and contradictions. It looks to my untrained eye like the Great Goddenberry's notion that "everyone's an officer" makes about as much sense as "you can't go Warp 10" and then you see the TOS E hitting Warp 14. Lest we forget, in Roddenberry's novelization of TMP, (see post #15 of the thread I just linked) he strongly suggests that the refit Enterprise is the most powerful space vessel in the Federation, worthy of being called a "battleship". And there's no shortage of folks who will try to dismiss that one.
Here's an idea: no canonical reference ever nailed down what the exact specifications should be for the crew of a Constitution-class starship. We're not even entirely sure what the assigned compliment of the Enterprise is for every given episode, although arguments could be made either for long-term stability in assigned numbers or for constant transfers, drop-offs and passenger deliveries. We can't even be sure that the ship was always entirely manned exclusively by uniformed Starfleet personnel. So maybe the final question should be: would there be such a thing as a standard compliment for a Federation starship, or could starships vary widely depending on their short- and long-term missions?
Think about it.
Why do we have to assume that Pike's reference in "The Cage" about "207 lives" literally meant the crew of the Enterprise? Sure, it's strongly implied. But it isn'y etched in stone. And even if it were to be taken literally, maybe some Connies are regularly assigned crews of less than 250 for specific mission profiles. Wasn't Pike supposed to take the Enterprise to Benecia Colony when he very reluctantly diverted to Talos IV? What's wrong with assuming that Pike's ship, at that point, was not outfitted to be a dedicated explorer? That would explain why he didn't want to change course.
Bottom line: there are arguments for assuming that Constitution-class starships all uniformly carry crew compliments of about the same size, but this was never conclusively proven, just as the whole issue about the supposed existence of enlisted rates in Starfleet was never conclusively proven one way of the other. It's possible that some Connies are outfitted and crewed with only 200+ full-time personnel, while some others have 400, and maybe others have over 500. It would all depend upon a given ship's mission profile. I could just as easily make an argument that Pike's martini lament was directed at his concern for a specific segment of the crew, not whole ship's compliment. (Maybe the Enterprise at that point was manned by 207 Starfleet peronnel plus at least another 200 civilian scientists and technicians who were under orders not to leave the ship while away from their "home port".)
Given some of the impressive musings posted by Shaw and many others in the Trek Tech and Art forums, I would think the saucer section of the TOS Enterprise alone would have more than sufficient internal volume to house all 400+ Enterprise crew and the Federation dignitaries in "Journey to Babel" and also be able to hold whatever stores and machinery it would take to tend to their mission and needs.
As the grandson of a former Seabee who ended the Second World War as a CPO and also as the son of a former D.I. for the Army, I have to say that I don't have any problem with those background characters in the mono-colored jumpsuits being enlisted. The show makes more sense to me that way. And no, I don't equate the notion of "enlisted" with that of "grunt". Officers in the military are supposed to be generalists, whereas enlisted personnel are supposed to be specialists. So TOS obviously has both of those. The real question is how they were organized and how they related. It's silly to argue that Federation starships didn't have any military characteristics when they obviously did, just as it is silly for so many gaming-minded fans to pretend that the TOS Universe could be so militaristic.
Of course, TOS was very much a work in progress when TMOST was published. As such, it should not be surprising that there are inconsistencies and contradictions. It looks to my untrained eye like the Great Goddenberry's notion that "everyone's an officer" makes about as much sense as "you can't go Warp 10" and then you see the TOS E hitting Warp 14. Lest we forget, in Roddenberry's novelization of TMP, (see post #15 of the thread I just linked) he strongly suggests that the refit Enterprise is the most powerful space vessel in the Federation, worthy of being called a "battleship". And there's no shortage of folks who will try to dismiss that one.
Here's an idea: no canonical reference ever nailed down what the exact specifications should be for the crew of a Constitution-class starship. We're not even entirely sure what the assigned compliment of the Enterprise is for every given episode, although arguments could be made either for long-term stability in assigned numbers or for constant transfers, drop-offs and passenger deliveries. We can't even be sure that the ship was always entirely manned exclusively by uniformed Starfleet personnel. So maybe the final question should be: would there be such a thing as a standard compliment for a Federation starship, or could starships vary widely depending on their short- and long-term missions?
Think about it.
Why do we have to assume that Pike's reference in "The Cage" about "207 lives" literally meant the crew of the Enterprise? Sure, it's strongly implied. But it isn'y etched in stone. And even if it were to be taken literally, maybe some Connies are regularly assigned crews of less than 250 for specific mission profiles. Wasn't Pike supposed to take the Enterprise to Benecia Colony when he very reluctantly diverted to Talos IV? What's wrong with assuming that Pike's ship, at that point, was not outfitted to be a dedicated explorer? That would explain why he didn't want to change course.
Bottom line: there are arguments for assuming that Constitution-class starships all uniformly carry crew compliments of about the same size, but this was never conclusively proven, just as the whole issue about the supposed existence of enlisted rates in Starfleet was never conclusively proven one way of the other. It's possible that some Connies are outfitted and crewed with only 200+ full-time personnel, while some others have 400, and maybe others have over 500. It would all depend upon a given ship's mission profile. I could just as easily make an argument that Pike's martini lament was directed at his concern for a specific segment of the crew, not whole ship's compliment. (Maybe the Enterprise at that point was manned by 207 Starfleet peronnel plus at least another 200 civilian scientists and technicians who were under orders not to leave the ship while away from their "home port".)
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In "This Side of Paradise" the Enterprise prepared to beam up and accomodate around a hundred extra colonists. The exact number of colonists is not known, but Spock mentions "over five hundred crewmen and colonists" later in the episode. Since there was no reason to offload personnel (the Enterprise didn't expect to find anyone on the planet left alive) then it further supports the notion that there is sufficient space to accomodate all these people without too much difficulty.It's possible that they off loaded much of the sciences complement. In Elaan of Troyius Uhura surrendered her quarters to the Dolman. Much of the crew might have been sleeping on the flight deck and in the lower corridors. And with a hundred dignitaries there would have also been aboard spouses, aids, sycophants, belly dancers, etc.. So rec rooms and cargo holds would have been converted to sleeping spaces. Some of the ambassadors require special atmospheres and some are aquatic, the Enterprise's internal space are likely designed for easy conversion.There was also Journey to Babel where the Enterprise was carrying a little over 100 dignitaries. Unless the Enterprise offloaded some crew to account for the extra people (not mentioned in episode) then there were 500+ on board for the episode. It must've been even more packed in
Works for me.You know, the notion of "electric boobs" is kinda scary. Touch them and you might get "juiced"!
Given some of the impressive musings posted by Shaw and many others in the Trek Tech and Art forums, I would think the saucer section of the TOS Enterprise alone would have more than sufficient internal volume to house all 400+ Enterprise crew and the Federation dignitaries in "Journey to Babel" and also be able to hold whatever stores and machinery it would take to tend to their mission and needs.
As the grandson of a former Seabee who ended the Second World War as a CPO and also as the son of a former D.I. for the Army, I have to say that I don't have any problem with those background characters in the mono-colored jumpsuits being enlisted. The show makes more sense to me that way. And no, I don't equate the notion of "enlisted" with that of "grunt". Officers in the military are supposed to be generalists, whereas enlisted personnel are supposed to be specialists. So TOS obviously has both of those. The real question is how they were organized and how they related. It's silly to argue that Federation starships didn't have any military characteristics when they obviously did, just as it is silly for so many gaming-minded fans to pretend that the TOS Universe could be so militaristic.
Of course, TOS was very much a work in progress when TMOST was published. As such, it should not be surprising that there are inconsistencies and contradictions. It looks to my untrained eye like the Great Goddenberry's notion that "everyone's an officer" makes about as much sense as "you can't go Warp 10" and then you see the TOS E hitting Warp 14. Lest we forget, in Roddenberry's novelization of TMP, (see post #15 of the thread I just linked) he strongly suggests that the refit Enterprise is the most powerful space vessel in the Federation, worthy of being called a "battleship". And there's no shortage of folks who will try to dismiss that one.
Here's an idea: no canonical reference ever nailed down what the exact specifications should be for the crew of a Constitution-class starship. We're not even entirely sure what the assigned compliment of the Enterprise is for every given episode, although arguments could be made either for long-term stability in assigned numbers or for constant transfers, drop-offs and passenger deliveries. We can't even be sure that the ship was always entirely manned exclusively by uniformed Starfleet personnel. So maybe the final question should be: would there be such a thing as a standard compliment for a Federation starship, or could starships vary widely depending on their short- and long-term missions?
Think about it.
Why do we have to assume that Pike's reference in "The Cage" about "207 lives" literally meant the crew of the Enterprise? Sure, it's strongly implied. But it isn'y etched in stone. And even if it were to be taken literally, maybe some Connies are regularly assigned crews of less than 250 for specific mission profiles. Wasn't Pike supposed to take the Enterprise to Benecia Colony when he very reluctantly diverted to Talos IV? What's wrong with assuming that Pike's ship, at that point, was not outfitted to be a dedicated explorer? That would explain why he didn't want to change course.
Bottom line: there are arguments for assuming that Constitution-class starships all uniformly carry crew compliments of about the same size, but this was never conclusively proven, just as the whole issue about the supposed existence of enlisted rates in Starfleet was never conclusively proven one way of the other. It's possible that some Connies are outfitted and crewed with only 200+ full-time personnel, while some others have 400, and maybe others have over 500. It would all depend upon a given ship's mission profile. I could just as easily make an argument that Pike's martini lament was directed at his concern for a specific segment of the crew, not whole ship's compliment. (Maybe the Enterprise at that point was manned by 207 Starfleet peronnel plus at least another 200 civilian scientists and technicians who were under orders not to leave the ship while away from their "home port".)
Well they can run the ship with 2 trainees and a chimpanzee. George Kirk operated the Kelvin on his own. Some of the crew will be mission specific e.g. scientists, others are needed 'just in case' e.g. spare engineers and a large security contingent, and many crew will serve multiple functions (Ann Mulhall and Marla McGyvers were both engineers who had secondary functions although I would have thought astrobiology was a full time job on an exploratory mission, most of the Ops crew will deal with maintenance and help with damage control etc).
It's 203. Two hundred and THREE lives, dammit!
I saw that, but it didn't detract from his main points so I let it pass.It's 203. Two hundred and THREE lives, dammit!
It's 203. Two hundred and THREE lives, dammit!
Ooops! My typo.
I stand corrected, but that typo doesn't change the points I was making.
Oh, I think you made some valid and interesting points regarding the number and types of personnel who might be on a starship. But if I didn't nitpick, I'd have to turn in my geek badges!
Gold Hat: "Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!"^ Yeah, I hear you.
Those badges are a son-of-a-bitch to earn, and to keep up to date, aren't they?
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