• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spock: Did they miss the point of their own story?

Flying Spaghetti Monster

Vice Admiral
Admiral
Ok, well, first, I didn't know what forum I should place this in. Could be placed in the Star Trek (2009), or perhaps in the TNG forum, so I just put this here.

Over the past few weeks, I watched Unification, Face of the Enemy, The Forge, and the new film, as well as a few various episodes, and I am always appreciative of any elaboration into Vulcan culture and the relationships of Vulcans to Romulans.

I didn't watch those epsides in roder recently. Last night I watched Unification. It seems that in watching it, I realized that the writers had a great resolution to a story and yet it it wasn't that story they were primarily interested in telling. What's more, the follow-ups to that story, while adequet, seemed to have forgotten the point as well. Perhaps.

Think, and ask yourself: What was the point of Unification?

The big Spock episode. Yet, the episode has so many dissonant aspects to it that it is amazing that hangs together soe well, it almost does so by the force of its own sheer will, where it is actually just trying to play out like an epic two-parter, one worthy of calling up Nimoy.

I'll try to explain.

It is stated that Spock could be a defector. Picard must find out. To start, he goes to see Sarek. He and Sarek know each other. They had a mind-meld. The writers of Unification were smart enough to jump of from Sarek as a means of bringing Spock into the fold. However, perhaps they did this a little too strongly. The story seems less about how Spock is interacting with our characters in the TNG universe, and not much more than what he is even doing on Romulus than it is about his conflict with Picard, which, we learn, is just a manifestation of the story shown throughout ALL of Trek from Journey to Babel to the current film and that is the conflict between Spock and his father.
And one could say that that dramatic concept is just way of telling his real story, which is far more basic, and that is the fact that he is not pure Vulcan and that he is half-humn. THAT is a theme that runs through all of Trek from the beginning.

I'll step back a bit to say here that I don't blame the writers of Unification for using that as an important thread in that story, as it is so fundamanetal to Spock and to Trek in general.. the relationship to Spock and his father seemed to underly a great many scenes in Unification that had Nimoy in them, and particularly those with Nimoy and Picard. Indeed, I felt that we really didn't see Picard and Spock interact as much as we thought they did, as much of what was being said or talked about seemed to go back to Sarek, and there was a lot of great dialogue therein about how Picard was speaking with Sarek's voice (possibly) and that the arguments between the two characters weren't resolved before Sarek passed. My point is that, in a snese, it was less Picard and Spock intereacting so much as it was Spock and Sarek interacting through Picard, and then Spock understanding Picard ina more roundabout way.

To the writer's credit, that is a really strong theme, a great way to connect Picard to Spock, and it does work well. To be devil's advocate, however: I will say that this story thread is given so much weight in the episode, that all other aspects of the episode seem secondary. I mean you almost forget that there was Riker was investigating something, and you don't know (or hardly care) who really owned that big weapons ship the big E was fighting. There were other stuff in there too: Data was obliged to share info with the Klingons, Data was screwing up playing a Romulan, there was a bad senator who betrayed Spock, Sela (the worst character in all Trek) was brought in, blah blah.. And yet, truth be told, the episode still somehow hangs together well, and all this stuff somehow works in the story by the force of tis own sheer will. I actually liked all of it, even Sela.

But here's my point: a few scenes caught my eye. Scenes that were short but really important to the story. Scenes that I think I really important to Star Trek as a franchise. The scenes I am talking concern the Romulan underground itself. This is shown mainly through D'tan, the Romulan boy.

Interestingly, almost proving the point I am about to make, different characters seem to pronounce this kid's name differently, and no one really bothered to correct them after watching the dailies.

D'tan is interested in Vulcan culture, and has toys that are not only old for Vulcan but would get him in a lot of trouble if the Romulans found out. But he is interested in these because he is interested in understanding how these cultures were actually one culture once.

Here's what I am saying: it all comes down to one of the final lines of the episode, spoken by Spock:

Spock: The reason for my coming here has never been more clear, Captain. The union of the Romulan and Vulcan peoples will not be achieved by politics. Or by diplomacy. But it will be achieved. The answer has been here in front of us all the time. An inexorable evolution toward a Vulcan philosophy has already begun: Like the first Vulcans, these people are struggling to find a new enlightenment. It may take decades, centuries for them to reach it... but they will...and I must help.

Watching the episode, I can't help but think that this quote is the point of the episode, of the actual story that is being playing out. It is exemplified in the character of D'ton.

Yet, the story of Sarek/Picard/Spock is just as strong thematically, and is certianly given more weight emotionally in the story. Everything else in the story is almost unimportant, it's all plot stuff to get us from here to there. The Picard/Sarek/Spock stuff (great stuff indeed) was given so much more heft in the story, that even this final speech that I quoted didn't seem to resonate by the time you watch the episode, and the last shot of the show, the mind-meld, implies that Picard/Sarek/Spock story is more important than the unification story.

What I'm confliced about is that it very well be.

Ok so, we have Unification, and how it's disparate tones have led me to question what was the most important thread. Then, we have Face of the Enemy. Great to hear that Spock is still at work, and that other higher-ranking Romulans support that dissident movement. The story involves them defecting. However, depsite how cool that is, it seems oddly irrelevant. Read the quote again. The point of what Spock is doing is to show how the cultures are similar, and how they were once the same and can be again. In Face of the Enemy, and in the new film, this aspect was not followed up on. The deep cultural unification these two races have was not important to the post- Unification stories, despite the fact that it was the reason Spock even went to Romulus.

In a way, I feel that the biggest treat we were given from this thread concerning the Spock's mission to reunite cultures that were once whole and now disperate was the fact this major plot element was recognized in a story that predates Spock: The Forge. This is a great story, and this line really hit home:

Syran (Arev): But his katra was spirited away... before the last battle against those who marched beneath the raptor's wings. Those who wanted to return to the savage ways.

So here's my point, it seems that the writers of Unification figured that this cultural separation as a good background plot, but it was simply a means to end to tell the story of Picard/Sarek/Spock and wasn't really that important, and it certainly wasn't important in any of the followups, but it seems to be such a waste, because I think it resonates, at least for me.
 
I feel that "Unification" is one of the greatest unfinished stories of modern Trek. Years down the road, for all intents and purposes, it seems like Spock must have failed because we never hear anything about it again. The episode "Unification" could have been a great launching point for a much grander Unification story arc (not necessarily involving Spock, but some other Vulcans and Romulans could have still told the story).

I love the Spock/Sarek/Picard relationship, but it should have been used as an addition to the Unification story rather than the main focus.

It's probably one of the reasons why Insurrection and Nemesis bother me so much. Insurrection could have been reworked to be a big story about Vulcans and Romulans instead of two random races we had never heard of. And with Nemesis...here we have what is finally supposed to be our big "Romulan Movie" and Unification isn't even mentioned.

I always enjoyed the politics in Trek. One of the reasons I enjoy the later TOS movies is because we got to see things like Federation HQ, and we got to interact with Klingon and Vulcan politicians. We got to see that there was a larger universe beyond the corridors of the Enterprise. The TNG movies seemed to take the opposite approach.

Even if we didn't get to see the Unification story unfold before our eyes, it would have been nice to at least hear about it once in a while. DS9 would have been a great place for this, especially with the big war on. Vulcans and Romulans coming together to fight a common foe...

I dunno, it's disappointing. The Unification story just kind of disappeared.
 
I realize that, but it seems like a weird story to introduce if you have no intention of returning to it.
 
I feel that "Unification" is one of the greatest unfinished stories of modern Trek. Years down the road, for all intents and purposes, it seems like Spock must have failed because we never hear anything about it again. The episode "Unification" could have been a great launching point for a much grander Unification story arc (not necessarily involving Spock, but some other Vulcans and Romulans could have still told the story).

I love the Spock/Sarek/Picard relationship, but it should have been used as an addition to the Unification story rather than the main focus.

It's probably one of the reasons why Insurrection and Nemesis bother me so much. Insurrection could have been reworked to be a big story about Vulcans and Romulans instead of two random races we had never heard of. And with Nemesis...here we have what is finally supposed to be our big "Romulan Movie" and Unification isn't even mentioned.

I always enjoyed the politics in Trek. One of the reasons I enjoy the later TOS movies is because we got to see things like Federation HQ, and we got to interact with Klingon and Vulcan politicians. We got to see that there was a larger universe beyond the corridors of the Enterprise. The TNG movies seemed to take the opposite approach.

Even if we didn't get to see the Unification story unfold before our eyes, it would have been nice to at least hear about it once in a while. DS9 would have been a great place for this, especially with the big war on. Vulcans and Romulans coming together to fight a common foe...

I dunno, it's disappointing. The Unification story just kind of disappeared.
Thanks for your response. You seemed to catch the drift of what I was saying.

Sure, I think it is good for epsidoes, and pretty much any story, to have a strong focus in characterization, and Unification had that covered with the Spock/Picard/Sarek story, but this was so weighty that it almost made yourget the actual plot!
 
Well, he did try and save the Romulan star from exploding (in XI), so he was still probably trying to earn the trust of the Rommies. And doesn't the beginning of the new film take place in the early 2400s, the same timeframe as the Star Trek Online game?

Unfortunately, he failed to save the star, and the planet, so the surviving Romulans may well have gone to war with Vulcan, blaming them for the death of their world (as Nero did). All that reunification work, gone to waste.
 
I have often thought about this as well, but there was one other block of dialog between Spock and Picard, that I think belies the true meaning behind "Unification":
SPOCK: ...Perhaps you are aware that I played a small role in the first overture to peace with the Klingons...
PICARD: History is aware of the role you played, Ambassador.
SPOCK: Not entirely. It was I who asked Kirk to lead that peace mission. And I who had to accept the responsibility for the consequences to him and his crew. Quite simply, I am unwilling to risk anyone's life but my own on this occasion. I would ask you to respect my wishes and leave.
I am now convinced that Unification was sadly nothing more than a massive marketing gimmick for Star Trek VI that was to come out later that year, sacrificing any real significance that the 2-parter would have normally contributed to the overall mythology of the series.
 
Ok, well, first, I didn't know what forum I should place this in. Could be placed in the Star Trek (2009), or perhaps in the TNG forum, so I just put this here.

Over the past few weeks, I watched Unification, Face of the Enemy, The Forge, and the new film, as well as a few various episodes, and I am always appreciative of any elaboration into Vulcan culture and the relationships of Vulcans to Romulans.

I didn't watch those epsides in roder recently. Last night I watched Unification. It seems that in watching it, I realized that the writers had a great resolution to a story and yet it it wasn't that story they were primarily interested in telling. What's more, the follow-ups to that story, while adequet, seemed to have forgotten the point as well. Perhaps.

Think, and ask yourself: What was the point of Unification?

The big Spock episode. Yet, the episode has so many dissonant aspects to it that it is amazing that hangs together soe well, it almost does so by the force of its own sheer will, where it is actually just trying to play out like an epic two-parter, one worthy of calling up Nimoy.

I'll try to explain.

It is stated that Spock could be a defector. Picard must find out. To start, he goes to see Sarek. He and Sarek know each other. They had a mind-meld. The writers of Unification were smart enough to jump of from Sarek as a means of bringing Spock into the fold. However, perhaps they did this a little too strongly. The story seems less about how Spock is interacting with our characters in the TNG universe, and not much more than what he is even doing on Romulus than it is about his conflict with Picard, which, we learn, is just a manifestation of the story shown throughout ALL of Trek from Journey to Babel to the current film and that is the conflict between Spock and his father.
And one could say that that dramatic concept is just way of telling his real story, which is far more basic, and that is the fact that he is not pure Vulcan and that he is half-humn. THAT is a theme that runs through all of Trek from the beginning.

I'll step back a bit to say here that I don't blame the writers of Unification for using that as an important thread in that story, as it is so fundamanetal to Spock and to Trek in general.. the relationship to Spock and his father seemed to underly a great many scenes in Unification that had Nimoy in them, and particularly those with Nimoy and Picard. Indeed, I felt that we really didn't see Picard and Spock interact as much as we thought they did, as much of what was being said or talked about seemed to go back to Sarek, and there was a lot of great dialogue therein about how Picard was speaking with Sarek's voice (possibly) and that the arguments between the two characters weren't resolved before Sarek passed. My point is that, in a snese, it was less Picard and Spock intereacting so much as it was Spock and Sarek interacting through Picard, and then Spock understanding Picard ina more roundabout way.

To the writer's credit, that is a really strong theme, a great way to connect Picard to Spock, and it does work well. To be devil's advocate, however: I will say that this story thread is given so much weight in the episode, that all other aspects of the episode seem secondary. I mean you almost forget that there was Riker was investigating something, and you don't know (or hardly care) who really owned that big weapons ship the big E was fighting. There were other stuff in there too: Data was obliged to share info with the Klingons, Data was screwing up playing a Romulan, there was a bad senator who betrayed Spock, Sela (the worst character in all Trek) was brought in, blah blah.. And yet, truth be told, the episode still somehow hangs together well, and all this stuff somehow works in the story by the force of tis own sheer will. I actually liked all of it, even Sela.

But here's my point: a few scenes caught my eye. Scenes that were short but really important to the story. Scenes that I think I really important to Star Trek as a franchise. The scenes I am talking concern the Romulan underground itself. This is shown mainly through D'tan, the Romulan boy.

Interestingly, almost proving the point I am about to make, different characters seem to pronounce this kid's name differently, and no one really bothered to correct them after watching the dailies.

D'tan is interested in Vulcan culture, and has toys that are not only old for Vulcan but would get him in a lot of trouble if the Romulans found out. But he is interested in these because he is interested in understanding how these cultures were actually one culture once.

Here's what I am saying: it all comes down to one of the final lines of the episode, spoken by Spock:

Spock: The reason for my coming here has never been more clear, Captain. The union of the Romulan and Vulcan peoples will not be achieved by politics. Or by diplomacy. But it will be achieved. The answer has been here in front of us all the time. An inexorable evolution toward a Vulcan philosophy has already begun: Like the first Vulcans, these people are struggling to find a new enlightenment. It may take decades, centuries for them to reach it... but they will...and I must help.

Watching the episode, I can't help but think that this quote is the point of the episode, of the actual story that is being playing out. It is exemplified in the character of D'ton.

Yet, the story of Sarek/Picard/Spock is just as strong thematically, and is certianly given more weight emotionally in the story. Everything else in the story is almost unimportant, it's all plot stuff to get us from here to there. The Picard/Sarek/Spock stuff (great stuff indeed) was given so much more heft in the story, that even this final speech that I quoted didn't seem to resonate by the time you watch the episode, and the last shot of the show, the mind-meld, implies that Picard/Sarek/Spock story is more important than the unification story.

What I'm confliced about is that it very well be.

Ok so, we have Unification, and how it's disparate tones have led me to question what was the most important thread. Then, we have Face of the Enemy. Great to hear that Spock is still at work, and that other higher-ranking Romulans support that dissident movement. The story involves them defecting. However, depsite how cool that is, it seems oddly irrelevant. Read the quote again. The point of what Spock is doing is to show how the cultures are similar, and how they were once the same and can be again. In Face of the Enemy, and in the new film, this aspect was not followed up on. The deep cultural unification these two races have was not important to the post- Unification stories, despite the fact that it was the reason Spock even went to Romulus.

In a way, I feel that the biggest treat we were given from this thread concerning the Spock's mission to reunite cultures that were once whole and now disperate was the fact this major plot element was recognized in a story that predates Spock: The Forge. This is a great story, and this line really hit home:

Syran (Arev): But his katra was spirited away... before the last battle against those who marched beneath the raptor's wings. Those who wanted to return to the savage ways.

So here's my point, it seems that the writers of Unification figured that this cultural separation as a good background plot, but it was simply a means to end to tell the story of Picard/Sarek/Spock and wasn't really that important, and it certainly wasn't important in any of the followups, but it seems to be such a waste, because I think it resonates, at least for me.

^^ this was really good. I hadn't put it all together like that, but I think you did a great job. I wish they would have picked up on this thread with DS9 and its dealings with the Romulans in the final years of that show. Missed opportunity for sure.

Rob
 
I am now convinced that Unification was sadly nothing more than a massive marketing gimmick for Star Trek VI that was to come out later that year, sacrificing any real significance that the 2-parter would have normally contributed to the overall mythology of the series.

I thought that it was pretty apparent at the time that it was nothing more than a big advert for the film. The story itself is largely unremarkable and likely would be far less popular if Spock were not in it. Unlike Relics, which is a good story made better by the inclusion of a familiar face.
 
I realize that, but it seems like a weird story to introduce if you have no intention of returning to it.

Well it is not the story that is unfinished is it? All that stuff about the Vulcan invasion concludes the story of the episode.

It was a nice bit of background, which was in many ways followed up (dissidents appear in Face Of The Enemy for example) but they would have needed a really special script to bring Nimoy back again in any form, and he only did the 2009 film as he was passing the torch.
 
I realize that, but it seems like a weird story to introduce if you have no intention of returning to it.

Well it is not the story that is unfinished is it? All that stuff about the Vulcan invasion concludes the story of the episode.

It was a nice bit of background, which was in many ways followed up (dissidents appear in Face Of The Enemy for example) but they would have needed a really special script to bring Nimoy back again in any form, and he only did the 2009 film as he was passing the torch.

I think what the OP is saying is that the later attempts to carry on the spock story, with or without him, missed the point of the spock story. I think there is merit to this belief.

Rob
 
Your right, Robert. The point of the story is not about dissidants or anything like that. It's about how the cultures, which are separated, would be come one again. It sould be a cultural thing, and it wouldnt be about politics, spies, or anything like that, though the follow-ups seem to to treat it that way.

Again Psock says this

Spock: The reason for my coming here has never been more clear, Captain. The union of the Romulan and Vulcan peoples will not be achieved by politics. Or by diplomacy. But it will be achieved. The answer has been here in front of us all the time. An inexorable evolution toward a Vulcan philosophy has already begun: Like the first Vulcans, these people are struggling to find a new enlightenment. It may take decades, centuries for them to reach it... but they will...and I must help.

but we almost forget that he does. It doesn't carry the weight it should have because the actual end of the episode is the mindmeld that finishes the story of Picard/Sarek/Spock.
 
Interesting. I've always wished they'd done more w/ the actual unification theme, too. Both in that episode and later.
 
It's like the wrote Nimoy a great final speech about Romulan Vulcan culture, but they weren't interested in the actual content of that speech so much as they were interested in the Paramount bottom line.
 
Call me Mr. "Got my head in the clouds," but I've always thought that Mr. Spock's struggle with uniting his half-breed nature WAS the heart of Star Trek. :cool:

We explored Spock's exploring and coming to terms with his dual nature. Chapel's rare insight into Spock's problem in "The Naked Time" and accepting him as he is. His realization that the Vulcans and Romulans are related in "Balance of Terror." In my opinion, his only real love interest in the Romulan Commander in "The Enterprise Incident." She equated his logic and sterility of non emotion as having been solved by the Romulans. Romulan women were capable of both. His acceptance of his human side in STTMP. His mentoring of the half-Romulan Saavik in STTWOK. All of this appears to be laying the ground work for his ambassadorial stint at reuniting Vulcan and Romulus. Surak brought peace to Vulcan during the Awakening but Spock was now going to try to bring unity to it as well. The over-intellectual Kohlinahr types on one side, the emotional Romulans on the other, and the IDIC loving type found in most ambassadors caught in the middle. I can see why it was so important to Sarek to have Spock follow in his tracks. I think, just like accepting his human side in STTMP, that it was a necessity for Spock to come to final terms and acceptance with his father Sarek in order to have the necessary perspective needed to help reunite Vulcan and Romulus. If there's no order in your own house, why hope to change the universe? I'd like to believe Spock accomplished this reunification with Romulus before the events of ST XI. The bottom line for me, just as Spock tried to bring unity to his fictional world of Vulcan, I believe Star Trek is helping to bring some unity to our everyday world through the fans who love it and unite to change the world in their professions and attitudes and letter-writing campaigns from movies to space shuttles. :cool:
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top