Old Fashioned Good Manners

[RoJoHen]

Um...no, not really at all.

And if I did, somehow I doubt my parents would call me by my formal title.

 

[Jan]

Being called by my formal name makes me uncomfortable.

Got scolded a lot as a child, eh?

Nah, that would be the middle name to cause that discomfort.

Jan

 

[sidious618]

I wish everyone would use first names. I think people would be a lot nicer if we all just addressed each other that way.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I went to one of those mandatory training sessions once where the trainer pointed out that while the service person means "It was no trouble at all to help you", the person served might take it as "It might have been a problem but it turned out not to be". I'm not sure I completely agree with that but I do find that being told that I'm welcome is more satisfying.

I'm alternating "You're welcome" and "My pleasure" at the moment.

Using that same logic though, if you say "my pleasure" aren't you also implying that it could have been an unpleasant experience but it just happened to turn out okay?

People are too nitpicky. If customer service people who don't interact with you on a regular basis are calling you by your first name, 9 times out of 10 that means it's company policy. If you have an issue with it, I would suggest you write the company, not blame the clerk or assume it represents some generational decline in civility.

Likewise with calling you by your last name or title. Which brings us to the problem of no two people wanting to be treated the same way, so it's a no-win situation.

"No problem" is often used as this generation's version of "thank you." It doesn't literally have to mean "you could have been a problem, but fortunately everything worked out" and serves the same basic purpose of saying "thank you." Take it in the spirit it was given and don't get irritated over minor things like that when people are making an effort to be polite.

As far as the Heinlein comment, I could go back and pull quotes from the past about how "the kids of this generation have no respect for their elders"; essentially calling them punks except all ancient Greekified. It's human nature that those of the previous generations are going to think those of the next have no respect, and it's at least as old as human civilization.

Maybe I'm just an informal guy, but I prefer it when people call me by my first name.

As you get older, you'll learn there's a distinct difference between business and personal affairs.

Condescension however is exclusive to no generation.

 

[RoJoHen]

"No problem" is often used as this generation's version of "thank you." It doesn't literally have to mean "you could have been a problem, but fortunately everything worked out" and serves the same basic purpose of saying "thank you." Take it in the spirit it was given and don't get irritated over minor things like that when people are making an effort to be polite.

Exactly.

Hell, sometimes I say "No problem" just because I get tried of saying "You're welcome" all day long. When you work in a service industry where you are constantly saying stuff like that, you need to mix it up. For a while, instead of "Have a nice day," I would often say, "Take it easy" or "See ya later." I just got tired of using the same phrases over and over again.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

I wish everyone would use first names. I think people would be a lot nicer if we all just addressed each other that way.

But it would be a bit strange if someone saw me and shouted "Zion is coming!"

 

[Holdfast]

I think this thread - and the Heinlein quote - are close to the mark, but not quite hitting the nail on the head.

Pleasantries and formalities can sometimes be extremely valuable, but sometimes informalities can be useful too. The key, I think, is not having a single style of communication. Rather, it's about rapidly sizing up the other party, and then playing the role they need (rather than what they might expect, or think they need) in order for effective communication to take place.

With some clients, I adopt an extremely formal manner - almost to the point of affectation (affected, moi?) - whilst with others I reduce the format of the conversation to knockabout banter, though when I need to drive a point home, I switch to a deliberately strikingly different formal tone. I continuously play different "roles" in this sense, when dealing with different parties. (In some regards, none of them is the real "me" any more - I'm more an amalgam of all those different styles).

Manners/formalities are useful because under certain circumstances they work better to achieve your ends. Be pragmatic - if they won't achieve your ends in a given situation, mix it up and use a different style. WillsBabe's story is a prime example of how customer service by protocol/script can go horribly wrong.

 

[KimMH]

I tend not to return to places I'm not treated respectfully for whatever that's worth.

Maybe I'm just an informal guy, but I prefer it when people call me by my first name.

I don't mind if I've had a few exchanges with the person (assuming business) but I always hated it back when I had to wear a name tag and perfect strangers would address me by my first name. Don't really know why, though.

Jan

I hated wearing a name tag too - it gives people knowledge about you that you may not have about them - I know that sounds trite, but people already tend to treat people in customer service rudely anyway, why give them the freebie?

 

[John Picard]

"No problem" is often used as this generation's version of "thank you." It doesn't literally have to mean "you could have been a problem, but fortunately everything worked out" and serves the same basic purpose of saying "thank you." Take it in the spirit it was given and don't get irritated over minor things like that when people are making an effort to be polite.

Exactly.

Hell, sometimes I say "No problem" just because I get tried of saying "You're welcome" all day long. When you work in a service industry where you are constantly saying stuff like that, you need to mix it up. For a while, instead of "Have a nice day," I would often say, "Take it easy" or "See ya later." I just got tired of using the same phrases over and over again.

"You're welcome"
"Cheers"
Certainly, Sir/Madam"
"My pleasure"

Alternate as needed.

 

[Miss Chicken]

In Iceland everyone is called my their first name, even the President. This is because Icelanders don't generally have surnames. The President of Iceland is Olafur Ragnar Grimmson. The last name is a patronymic i.e he is the son of Grim. People outside of Iceland might call him President Grimmson but that is totally wrong.

In the murder mysteries written by Icelander Arnaldur Indridason , the detective, Erlandur Sveinnson, always introduces himself as Erlandur or sometimes as Inspector Erlandur.

Addressing people by their first names doesn't stop Icelanders from being polite.

 

[RoJoHen]

"No problem" is often used as this generation's version of "thank you." It doesn't literally have to mean "you could have been a problem, but fortunately everything worked out" and serves the same basic purpose of saying "thank you." Take it in the spirit it was given and don't get irritated over minor things like that when people are making an effort to be polite.

Exactly.

Hell, sometimes I say "No problem" just because I get tried of saying "You're welcome" all day long. When you work in a service industry where you are constantly saying stuff like that, you need to mix it up. For a while, instead of "Have a nice day," I would often say, "Take it easy" or "See ya later." I just got tired of using the same phrases over and over again.

"You're welcome"
"Cheers"
Certainly, Sir/Madam"
"My pleasure"

Alternate as needed.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually use the word "Madam" in real life. And if I called someone that, they'd probably get insulted.

 

[Jan]

People are too nitpicky. If customer service people who don't interact with you on a regular basis are calling you by your first name, 9 times out of 10 that means it's company policy. If you have an issue with it, I would suggest you write the company, not blame the clerk or assume it represents some generational decline in civility.

Issue? Blame? Not at all, and I apologize if I gave that impression.

Likewise with calling you by your last name or title. Which brings us to the problem of no two people wanting to be treated the same way, so it's a no-win situation.

I disagree. While it seems friendly to request to be called by one's first name, I can't see anybody taking it as being friendly to request to be addressed more formally if that's what the person being addressed prefers. To me, it only makes sense to err on the side of being formal, which allows the one being addressed to opt for informality or let it stand.

"No problem" is often used as this generation's version of "thank you." It doesn't literally have to mean "you could have been a problem, but fortunately everything worked out" and serves the same basic purpose of saying "thank you." Take it in the spirit it was given and don't get irritated over minor things like that when people are making an effort to be polite.

Most people generally do, I'm sure. Obviously tone and facial expression mean a lot, too.

Some people are offense kleptomaniacs. Any offense that's not nailed down, they take it.

Somebody would have to be an 'offense kleptomaniac' to take offense when none is meant and an interraction is generally pleasant. My main point was how additionally pleasant the gentleman I spoke to made our brief interaction. Sure, "Thank you for taking my call" might really have been another way of saying "Thank God I didn't get stuck in voice mail hell!" but it served to make me feel extra-willing to help him.

Jan

 

[Mr Awe]

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

Manners are still around today, but they've changed. Expecting the current generation to have the same customs regarding manners is ridiculous. Saying "No Problem" and using a person's first name are the polite things to do these days.

I agree with this. Generally speaking, manners have become less formal and more familiar. It's just part of the ever evolving customs.

Mr Awe

 

[KimMH]

"No problem" is often used as this generation's version of "thank you." It doesn't literally have to mean "you could have been a problem, but fortunately everything worked out" and serves the same basic purpose of saying "thank you." Take it in the spirit it was given and don't get irritated over minor things like that when people are making an effort to be polite.


Kids these days. Get off my lawn!!!

(Sorry - orig quote Locutus of Bored - lost the snips)

 

[John Picard]

Exactly.

Hell, sometimes I say "No problem" just because I get tried of saying "You're welcome" all day long. When you work in a service industry where you are constantly saying stuff like that, you need to mix it up. For a while, instead of "Have a nice day," I would often say, "Take it easy" or "See ya later." I just got tired of using the same phrases over and over again.

"You're welcome"
"Cheers"
Certainly, Sir/Madam"
"My pleasure"

Alternate as needed.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually use the word "Madam" in real life. And if I called someone that, they'd probably get insulted.

"Ma'am".

Then, if they get miffed over being called "Ma'am", say, "Sorry Ma'am".

 

[Tiberius Jim]

I always feel weird when the person helping me calls me "Sir" or "Mr. H". I'm only 23, so most of the time the people helping me are close to my age, sometimes older. It just feels weird. Mr. H is my dad.

At the same time, I absolutely can't stand when the person helping me shows no sense of enjoying their job. When I was in retail, I would always at least *fake* being happy to help the person. Being helped by someone completely void of any emotion is rather uncomfortable.

 

[Kestra]

I get so awkward when people want to call me by their first names. It took me a long time to start calling my mother-in-law by her first name and I can't bring myself to do it with my father-in-law still.

The Indian part of my culture has this elaborate naming scheme though, so that's probably where that awkwardness comes from. I know I'd be freaked out if someone called me "Mrs. _______"!

Regarding old-fashioned good manners in general, I don't think there's anything old-fashioned about them. I thank the train dude who sells me a ticket, the cab driver who gets me to class on time, the person serving me in a restaurant, etc.

I think the main issue is one of formality. Being more casual about the way you conduct yourself doesn't necessarily denote a lack of manners or some sort of disrespect. People have their own styles today, many of them acceptable, and it should really be about being courteous and respectful in whatever way seems appropriate.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I say stuff like "no problem" all the time. I don't view (or use) it as an insult. I like being informal when I talk. I hate formalspeak - I view it as stuffy, insincere and arrogant. I try to be nice to people, of course, but I use regular everyday language when I do.

 

[Mr. B]

Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untravelled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as "empty," "meaningless," or "dishonest," and scorn to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best.

I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. It is a shame society as a whole is so rude and inconsiderate now. I do my best to be polite and cordial anyway.

As for Mr/Ms./Ma'am, etc. I find it entirely appropriate to address people formally until they give permission to do otherwise, even if society is more casual now.

My newest job involves work with professionals in a surprisingly casual environment which has taken me a little bit of time to get used to. Recently I answered the phone with a coworker on the other end whom I addressed as ma'am. I guess that made her feel old because she replied "you can call me 'bitch' but you CAN NOT call me ma'am."

 

[Amaris]

"No problem" is often used as this generation's version of "thank you." It doesn't literally have to mean "you could have been a problem, but fortunately everything worked out" and serves the same basic purpose of saying "thank you." Take it in the spirit it was given and don't get irritated over minor things like that when people are making an effort to be polite.

Exactly.

Hell, sometimes I say "No problem" just because I get tried of saying "You're welcome" all day long. When you work in a service industry where you are constantly saying stuff like that, you need to mix it up. For a while, instead of "Have a nice day," I would often say, "Take it easy" or "See ya later." I just got tired of using the same phrases over and over again.

Ditto.

I try not to use "no problem", but sometimes it slips out. I much prefer "You're welcome" or "It has been a pleasure". When I worked in a Walmart, I used "please", "thank you", "Sir" and "Ma'am". Once I learned their names, I used "Mr" or "Mrs/Ms" (Miss if the person was younger). I love good manners, but I wonder if they're falling out of fashion. When I try to move around in a busy supermarket, you'll hear a stream of "Excuse me", "pardon me", "I'm sorry", and "May I" as I try to get through to get my supplies. Usually, I don't even get a glance or acknowledgment in return. I find this to be the case with older people, in particular.

Edit to add: I understand Mr. B's quandry as well. I wish there was a simple address to use for women. I generally use ma'am, but get chastised on occasion. Men have "Mister", but women have three choices that require a personal question or a look at their ring finger to gauge a proper address, and even then, one can make a mistake where you lose a customer/client.