John Varley's "Titan" Trilogy
- Thread starter UncleRogi
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I read and liked the first one. "Rocky" Jones, indeed.
I read the trilogy a while back and it wasn't really to my taste. There was some fascinating worldbuilding, but there was also a preoccupation with sex that was downright sophomoric, more the sort of thing I'd expect to see in a teenager's self-indulgent fanfic than something from an established pro. Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against sexual content in fiction per se, but I just found this overdone and immature.
And the casualness of the drug abuse was disturbing too, especially in the later books, where it was revealed that Cirocco Jones had become a drug lord, running cocaine plantations (I think) on Gaia and getting rich selling the drugs to people back home. A character who's a drug user or addict, though not something I can respect, is something I can live with given the time frame when these books were written. But having the protagonist of the books get rich off the addiction and misery of countless others? That's crossing a line. That's going way beyond character flaws into outright evil.
And the casualness of the drug abuse was disturbing too, especially in the later books, where it was revealed that Cirocco Jones had become a drug lord, running cocaine plantations (I think) on Gaia and getting rich selling the drugs to people back home. A character who's a drug user or addict, though not something I can respect, is something I can live with given the time frame when these books were written. But having the protagonist of the books get rich off the addiction and misery of countless others? That's crossing a line. That's going way beyond character flaws into outright evil.
I didn't think there was anything at all sophomoric about the sex in Varley's fiction, although granted it's not something you'd ever see in Star Trek.
Varley was pretty well known for extrapolating a future where what we consider problems or excesses were casually taken for granted as part of the social landscape. Haldeman did something similar in Forever War. All of this seemed more plausible in the 1970s, before Reagan's America, and is still probably more likely a century from now than anything as tidy and reassuring as the silly middle class puritanism of the "Star Trek Universe."
No doubt if we could see the future two centuries from now we'd be appalled at the rampant "evil" and general lack of decency. Varley got that.
Interesting brief interview with Varley here.
Varley was pretty well known for extrapolating a future where what we consider problems or excesses were casually taken for granted as part of the social landscape. Haldeman did something similar in Forever War. All of this seemed more plausible in the 1970s, before Reagan's America, and is still probably more likely a century from now than anything as tidy and reassuring as the silly middle class puritanism of the "Star Trek Universe."
No doubt if we could see the future two centuries from now we'd be appalled at the rampant "evil" and general lack of decency. Varley got that.
Interesting brief interview with Varley here.
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It was Gaia herself exporting the cocaine; aside from occasional use, Cirrocco rarely used. She was a full blown, in the gutter alcholic.
She got rich 'cuz of her NASA pension, and happened to own the Empire State Building!
And what about those planes she bought?!?! awesomeness
And what about those planes she bought?!?! awesomeness
I wanna ride a Titanide!!
What I particularly liked about Titan was that the original British SF Book Club edition was published (with illustrations) in a single volume with Tin Woodman. Have you any idea what that did for the sales of our book there? 
http://www.antiqbook.com/books/bookinfo.phtml?o=porcup&bnr=86704
http://www.antiqbook.com/books/bookinfo.phtml?o=porcup&bnr=86704
"50 foot 2 and eyes of blue"
That is one Marilyn I'd like to see!!!
That is one Marilyn I'd like to see!!!
CHRISTOPHER Quote"
"I read the trilogy a while back and it wasn't really to my taste. There was some fascinating worldbuilding, but there was also a preoccupation with sex that was downright sophomoric, more the sort of thing I'd expect to see in a teenager's self-indulgent fanfic than something from an established pro. Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against sexual content in fiction per se, but I just found this overdone and immature."
I think considering the time they spent getting to Saturn, and the trauma following arrival, physical closeness would be almost neccessary, though I agree it went a bit too far.
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What I particularly liked about Titan was that the original British SF Book Club edition was published (with illustrations) in a single volume with Tin Woodman. Have you any idea what that did for the sales of our book there?
http://www.antiqbook.com/books/bookinfo.phtml?o=porcup&bnr=86704
That's pretty cool. Apologies, but I had not heard of your novel before now. Have you written any others?
Not that I successfully marketed to a publisher.
Thanks for asking, though.
Thanks for asking, though.
Not that I successfully marketed to a publisher.
Thanks for asking, though.
You're certainly welcome. And, FWIW, I'm sufficiently curious to try and find a copy of Tin Woodman.
Well, try to get the omnibus edition with Titan - that way, you can't lose. 
Well, try to get the omnibus edition with Titan - that way, you can't lose.
Fair 'nuff.
In the meantime, to get back to the thread topic:
Found a spiffy fan-site for the Gaea Trilogy:
http://www.ammon-ra.com/gaea/index.html
I vastly preferred his short stories. The movie Millennium, made from his short story Air Raid, seemed good to me. The novels never seemd that interesting and I never got beyond the first, I think. But I tend to think that SF is particularly distinguished for its short stories and novellas, and that major figures are nearly forgotten because of the prejudice for novels. Who now remembers Henry Kuttner, C.L. Moore, Robert Sheckley, William Tenn (who just left us
) Fredric Brown, Cordwainer Smith?
) Fredric Brown, Cordwainer Smith?Well, I do. Sheckley was one of my favorites.
As I said, I have nothing against a liberal portrayal of sexuality per se in fiction. My own original fiction, as opposed to the media tie-in stuff, has plenty of sexuality and nudity, and the future society I postulate in my default universe is far more liberal about sexuality than present-day America. I just felt that in the Gaia trilogy, Varley poured it on too heavily to the point that it became gratuitous. A lot of the trilogy is basically softcore porn.
Tin Woodman was the basis for the Star Trek: TNG episode "Tin Man," written by the same authors.
That's interesting. Thanks for the info!
stj said:But I tend to think that SF is particularly distinguished for its short stories and novellas, and that major figures are nearly forgotten because of the prejudice for novels. Who now remembers Henry Kuttner, C.L. Moore, Robert Sheckley, William Tenn (who just left us
How about folks like Anne McCaffrey, Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, Frank Herbert, Jerry Pournelle, and others who are primarily known for their novels?
Actually, Asimov is known primarily for his short stories and novellas - all of the stories comprising I, Robot and the first three Foundation books are of that form and were originally published separately.
Heinlein and Herbert belong in any "best" list, but while popular McCaffrey and Pournelle are highly arguable.
Heinlein and Herbert belong in any "best" list, but while popular McCaffrey and Pournelle are highly arguable.
