What punishment do they deserve?

[Miss Chicken]

From what I gathered she kept the abuse hidden from her family. She did not live with her parents but had her own apartment.

The bullying is verified by at least one female employee who told the young men if they continued tormenting her they 'would have blood on their hands'. This woman testified at the hearing.

 

[Australis]

I'm sorry. Really sorry. But sometimes "those guys need help" deosn't cut it.

They should be punched in the face by a different person. Once every day. For ten years.

They might learn something from that.

Won't bring her back, though.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

I'm not a violent person by any means, but in cases like this were vulnerable people are singles out like this i think nothing less than taking them round the back and having seven bells kicked out of them and then have them walk in that other persons shoes suffering they same degradation they thought was perfectly acceptable to pile on others would go some way to serving some form of justice.

Not a perfect solution and it wont right the wrong but its about the best i can think of as some form of punishment for their actions.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I generally totally reject the "eye for an eye" mentality when dealing with criminals but I believe bullying is one offense where it is totally appropriate. Bullies should have the absolute shit beaten out of them. Don't cause any permanent physical harm to them, just batter, bruise and humiliate them. Repeat as necessary until learning takes place. If it doesn't, throw them in jail along with the other violent offenders.

Not that it's necessarily the case with these people, and regardless they were adults and should have controlled themselves, but a lot of bullies and spousal abusers were themselves verbally and physically abused as children, so I don't really see how the "eye for an eye" approach would help or do anything other than perpetuate the cycle of abusive behavior.

I don't understand why some people in these topics don't get the inherent hypocrisy of saying things like rape is wrong, but I hope this guy gets raped in prison; or bullying someone is wrong, but I think this guy should get the shit kicked out of him as punishment. The act doesn't become less wrong simply because it's sanctioned by the state or because it's some sort of societal revenge fantasy wish-fulfillment.

It never fails though. In every topic regarding crime - major or minor - there's always at least one person who goes way overboard in imagining potential violent retribution and punishments for criminals. Yeah, you might say it's just taking place on the board and not in real life where you wouldn't actually act like that, but then if it's an inherently dishonest or exaggerated reaction why bother saying it in a serious manner at all?

Sorry to single your post out StarryEyed, because this is a general commentary directed at multiple people in this thread and on the board at large. So please don't take it as being aimed primarily at you, because as you say you generally reject "eye for an eye" style calls for retribution.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I generally totally reject the "eye for an eye" mentality when dealing with criminals but I believe bullying is one offense where it is totally appropriate. Bullies should have the absolute shit beaten out of them. Don't cause any permanent physical harm to them, just batter, bruise and humiliate them. Repeat as necessary until learning takes place. If it doesn't, throw them in jail along with the other violent offenders.

I'm not a violent person by any means, but in cases like this were vulnerable people are singles out like this i think nothing less than taking them round the back and having seven bells kicked out of them and then have them walk in that other persons shoes suffering they same degradation they thought was perfectly acceptable to pile on others would go some way to serving some form of justice.

Not a perfect solution and it wont right the wrong but its about the best i can think of as some form of punishment for their actions.

I love how these essentially read "I'm not a violent person....BUT I WANT TO SEE ME SOME PEOPLE BEATEN UP!!!"

I'm going to be blunt here, but I apologise for any offense: As someone who came within an inch of suicide himself due to the physical and psychological abuse he suffered, I must say I'm quite disgusted at the idea of inflicting it on others. Violence, humiliation and inflicting pain are not "justice". The desire to inflict abuse on these people is NO DIFFERENT from their desire to inflict it on their co-worker, except people try to "justify" it by saying "ah, it's okay, I can indulge in brutality and abuse here, because these people aren't very nice". Well, they didn't like her either, did they? If you're using your dislike for them as an excuse to indulge in the desire to create the "outsider" who is then attacked, it's the same thing, hiding behind ideas of "justice". And those ideas fail, as I see Locutus of Bored has already articulated in the post above

Again, I'm sorry but I must be blunt. Someone who is opposed to abuse and assault is OPPOSED TO ABUSE AND ASSAULT. There can be no exceptions. Saying "...apart from on these people because they're criminals/not very nice" is no different from "apart from these people because they're the wrong religion/race/tribe/political group". It's the same instinct: find an outsider and viciously attack them in order to boost your own esteem and sense of social solidarity.

In this case, the sense of societal cohesion has been threatened, so people respond, as is instinctive, by finding someone to blame, and ruthlessly attacking them as a rallying point for everyone to reaffirm their commitment to shared ideals. And once the labeled outsider is broken and bloody and humiliated, everyone feels better.

As LoB pointed out, it's circular, as plenty of abused and bullied people go on to do it to others in order to reclaim their broken self-esteem. It's a tragic cycle that I personally want nothing to do with.

I hope I have not offended anyone; I can get a bit intense at times, as I'm sure you're aware.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I'm sorry. Really sorry. But sometimes "those guys need help" deosn't cut it.

They should be punched in the face by a different person. Once every day. For ten years.

They might learn something from that.

Won't bring her back, though.

Just out of interest, if they were women would you be calling for them to be "punched in the face" once a day?

That goes for everyone calling for violence against these men, by the way.

 

[TheBrew]

A fair punishment? Charge them with manslaughter and have a permanent mark on their work record so that the best they will ever do is flip burgers.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Maybe a trip or two to the morgue to view the outcomes of other successful suicides would be appropriate as well.

This is the best idea I've heard yet. Also perhaps some visits with the parents, spouses and friends of suicides.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

I'm not a violent person by any means, but in cases like this were vulnerable people are singles out like this i think nothing less than taking them round the back and having seven bells kicked out of them and then have them walk in that other persons shoes suffering they same degradation they thought was perfectly acceptable to pile on others would go some way to serving some form of justice.

Not a perfect solution and it wont right the wrong but its about the best i can think of as some form of punishment for their actions.

I love how these essentially read "I'm not a violent person....BUT I WANT TO SEE ME SOME PEOPLE BEATEN UP!!!"

I never said i wanted to watch these people being beaten up, that's what differ me from them, i don't find any pleasure whatsoever in the misery of others, i will be happy in the knowledge they have received some form of punishment for their actions and those actions terrible costly consequences, be that punishment physical or mental, but i think we can all agree punishment of some form must be given.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I think they should receive community service (at least 400 hours), plus a substantial fine, made to go to counselling and also to attend mediation sessions with the girl's parents should the parents want to.

 

[Kitty Worrier]

I think they should receive community service (at least 400 hours), plus a substansial fine, made to go to counselling and also to attend mediation sessions with the girl's parents should the parents want to.

I was thinking along the same lines. Maybe probation as well, and/or a few months jail time. I think the counselling is must, because this situation may have messed them up even more.

 

[Miss Chicken]

They have all received large fines


Nicholas Smallwood - $45,000
Rhys MacAlpine - $30,000
Gabriel Toomey - $10,000

Magistrate Peter Lauritsen described their actions as "the most serious case of bullying" and said he would have doubled the penalties if they had not pleaded guilty to the charges.

In addition to this Smallwood has been told today he no longer has current job.

The cafe owner, Marc Luis Da Cruz, has been personally been fined $30,000 and his company has been fined $220,000.

Brodie Panlock's parents are now calling for the law to be changed so that bullies like these men can be sent to prison.

 

[Australis]

I'm sorry. Really sorry. But sometimes "those guys need help" deosn't cut it.

They should be punched in the face by a different person. Once every day. For ten years.

They might learn something from that.

Won't bring her back, though.

Just out of interest, if they were women would you be calling for them to be "punched in the face" once a day?

That goes for everyone calling for violence against these men, by the way.

Hmmm. A fair question.

Hmmm. A fair answer. Yes.

Understand - it's not the pain (or just the pain), it's the humiliation. I guarantee they'd never do it again. Male or female.

That said, LoB's idea about the morgue would be much, much more effective., if the person has any kind of conscience at all.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Brodie Panlock's parents are now calling for the law to be changed so that bullies like these men can be sent to prison.

Which makes no sense. Otherwise literally about half the people I knew at school and in my community outside should go to prison. It's not about individuals; if you want to blame something blame the way the social structure works.

 

[opali]

I don't understand why some people in these topics don't get the inherent hypocrisy of saying things like rape is wrong, but I hope this guy gets raped in prison; or bullying someone is wrong, but I think this guy should get the shit kicked out of him as punishment. The act doesn't become less wrong simply because it's sanctioned by the state or because it's some sort of societal revenge fantasy wish-fulfillment.

It never fails though. In every topic regarding crime - major or minor - there's always at least one person who goes way overboard in imagining potential violent retribution and punishments for criminals.

I love how these essentially read "I'm not a violent person....BUT I WANT TO SEE ME SOME PEOPLE BEATEN UP!!!"

Again, I'm sorry but I must be blunt. Someone who is opposed to abuse and assault is OPPOSED TO ABUSE AND ASSAULT. There can be no exceptions.

Of course there are always exceptions, like it or not. I see the logical fallacy you are pointing out but I can't agree with you. Black and white makes a nice board game, but it doesn't work when applied to human nature. Just as there are times when a man rapes and murders a four year old girl and he is never caught nor is her body ever found, there are going to be moments of violent retribution for a violent crime.

There are no easy answers. It is ugly, messy and complicated; but therein lies the potential for the breathtaking beauty and compassion in life as well.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

....there are going to be moments of violent retribution for a violent crime.

Heat-of-the-moment confrontations where the victim or loved ones are overwhelmed by instinct and emotion and attack, yes (and where other people are unsuccessful in holding them back). That's quite different from sitting and premeditating it, or sitting at your computer calmly stating "these people should be beaten".

Those inevitable moments of violent retribution have little to do with a discussion of whether it's justified or not- because in that moment these people are not rational. They are overcome by feeling and grief and instinct. So saying "if you're opposed to violence and abuse you're opposed to all violence and abuse" still stands. Indeed, if I'm ever in a situation whereby the urge to attack overwhelms me, I hope very strongly other people still in possession of their rationality will do their duty and stop me.

 

[Marie1]

That's quite different from sitting and premeditating it, or sitting at your computer calmly stating "these people should be beaten".

Exactly- I've been spit on, beaten, robbed, insulted with vile names- daily for years.

Did I sometimes say in my head I wished I could punch those people? Yep. Did I retailiate, not a whole lot.

It hurt, and as far as human support, I went through a lot of it alone... Have I thought of ending my life, yes. But I didn't become a criminal myself, I didn't kill myself either.

Is it wrong to say someeone should smack some sense into vile people? Not really... as long nothing horrible is premeditated and done. I know a lot of people who need a punch, but I'm not going to do it unless it's self-defence.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

That's quite different from sitting and premeditating it, or sitting at your computer calmly stating "these people should be beaten".

Exactly- I've been spit on, beaten, robbed, insulted with vile names- daily for years.

Did I sometimes say in my head I wished I could punch those people? Yep. Did I retailiate, not a whole lot.

It hurt, and as far as human support, I went through a lot of it alone... Have I thought of ending my life, yes. But I didn't become a criminal myself, I didn't kill myself either.

Is it wrong to say someeone should smack some sense into vile people? Not really... as long nothing horrible is premeditated and done. I know a lot of people who need a punch, but I'm not going to do it unless it's self-defence.

That was said considerably better than I phrased it. Thank you, Marie!

 

[Haggis and tatties]

Brodie Panlock's parents are now calling for the law to be changed so that bullies like these men can be sent to prison.

Which makes no sense. Otherwise literally about half the people I knew at school and in my community outside should go to prison. It's not about individuals; if you want to blame something blame the way the social structure works.

Oh, how many people do you know who seem to think its ok to wage a campaign of intimidation and bully on people to such a degree they felt they had no other escape than to kill themselves.

I for one feel these heartless excuses for human beings got of with murder on this one, and what have they learned from the experience, well next time don't bully people too much because it will cost them in their wallet if it goes tits up.

Justice at work.

 

[melancholymecha]

I have been humiliated at school the same way these girls were & it horrifies me that adults can still act this way. One of the reasons Im horrified of working. I know I would stand out as someone who'd be an easy target or scapegoat when something goes wrong or someone(or a whole group) needs to feel better about themselves by putting someone else down. Though i also think i would have probably quit these jobs long before the bullying got really out of hand(stabbing? fish oil?).