The new Concordance (again) and ST: Of Gods and Men

[F. King Daniel]

A few weeks ago a new, probably online-only version of Bjo Trimble’s Star Trek Concordance was announced. The thread promptly went off-topic and died horribly in an argument that started with the merits of Star Trek (2009) and ended in a slagging match and other nonsense.

Everyone was in agreement that Star Trek (2009) should be included in the newest version (to a greater or lesser extent), but what about Star Trek: Of Gods and Men?

This isn’t just any fan film: although not officially licensed by Paramount or CBS, SToGaM (or “stow-gam”) features real Star Trek actors on a painstakingly exact replica of the TOS Enterprise. The writers previously worked on DS9 and even the cameraman was from Voyager. Literally the only thing missing is a Paramount logo at the start. It’s a little rough around the edges, but IMO that gives it it’s charm.

(I do dislike James Cawley’s ego-mania cameo as “Commander Kirk”, though. Winds me up. Be in the film? Fine. Try to pass yourself off as the nephew of William Shatner’s Kirk? Fail!)

To reiterate: Nichelle Nichols, Walter Koenig, Alan Ruck, Tim Russ, Chase Masterson (gorgeous in green!), Ethan Phillips and loads of others are in a film with “Star Trek” in the title. Many of them are playing the same roles they did in TOS, the movies or other Star Treks. It ends with Uhura retiring, getting married and presumably living happily ever after – the end of her 40+ year story arc. Surely this has much more relevance than some little TOS reference in Enterprise or DS9?

Considering Bjo’s involvement with Trek fandom over the years, I’d hope the absence of a little corporate logo wouldn’t preclude such an important part of the “lives” of Uhura, Chekov, Harriman and the rest being included in the new Concordance.

Opinions?

 

[Christopher]

"A little corporate logo?" Don't be naive. That logo makes all the difference in the world where the law is concerned.

Of course, if the new Concordance is an online-only publication, not licensed by CBS, then it can feature whatever its author wants to include. But if it were to cover fan films featuring original cast members, it would have to encompass far more than just OGaM.

 

[seigezunt]

As the older edition of the Concordance included fan-made artwork, why not include fan-made films?

I say yea.

 

[Therin of Andor]

As the older edition of the Concordance included fan-made artwork, why not include fan-made films?

Bjo had the chance, with her last edition, to include the George Takei-as-Sulu fan film that was made just after ST:TMP, and even featured in "Starlog". And chose not to.

I think of all the unlicensed fan films - and I was in the first "Starship Exeter" - as moving, talking fanzine stories. The participation of actors working for free doesn't make one fan film any more official than another.

I do dislike James Cawley’s ego-mania cameo as “Commander Kirk”, though. Winds me up. Be in the film? Fine. Try to pass yourself off as the nephew of William Shatner’s Kirk? Fail!

It's an actor's fault that a scripted cameo role should have been a different character?

Maybe he was passing himself off as the nephew of James Cawley’s Kirk from "New Voyages" and "Phase II"?

 

[Stevil2001]

I don't see how playing Kirk's nephew is any more "ego-maniacal" than playing Kirk himself. And he's got to be better than the guy who played Peter in "Blood and Fire".

 

[Captain Robert April]

While there's always a chance for Bjo to surprise the hell out of me, I think it's safe to say that the fan films are out. Even the New Voyages/Phase II ones.

As for the final form, since the publication rights have reverted to Bjo, I think a book version is the most likely, with an online download-on-demand version being more of an option.

But, first things first. There's some sizable chunks that have to be rewritten (not just for correction/updating purposes, but because the computer files appear to be lost, or at least not in the batch of discs I got), and in the case of the stuff that came out after the last version, written for the first time.

Once it's in a more complete form, we should have a better idea of the format.

 

[PattyW]

features real Star Trek actors on a painstakingly exact replica of the TOS Enterprise. The writers previously worked on DS9 and even the cameraman was from Voyager.

Opinions?

It's odd that you slam James Cawley in the same post that you applaud his sets... the ones he let OGAM use. And if featuring "real" Star Trek actors and writers and crew is the criteria that you are judging a production's inclusion in the concordance by, than Star Trek New Voyages: Phase II hit that mark long before OGAM was even a glimmer in someone's mind. Majel and Rod Roddenberry are even part of the "crew". (Majel participated before her passing, and left NVP2 the rights to keep using her voice afterward.)

I guess I'm just confused as to why you think OGAM stands apart from STNVP2 when the latter can produce a list of Trek alumni that far out stretches OGAM.

 

[Mysterion]

Earlier versions of the Concordance have concentrated on official on-screen episodes/films involving TOs and TOS characters. My opinion is that any new edition of the Concordance continue this practice.

Thus: Of Gods and Men = No. Star Trek (2009) = Yes.

 

[GHS]

Bjo had the chance, with her last edition, to include the George Takei-as-Sulu fan film that was made just after ST:TMP, and even featured in "Starlog". And chose not to.

I think of all the unlicensed fan films - and I was in the first "Starship Exeter" - as moving, talking fanzine stories. The participation of actors working for free doesn't make one fan film any more official than another.

Do you recall the premise of the Takei fan film (story setting/time)? I assume that it was really low on special effects

 

[Mysterion]

Do you recall the premise of the Takei fan film (story setting/time)? I assume that it was really low on special effects

See post #35 of this thread: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=110183

 

[F. King Daniel]

I think of all the unlicensed fan films - and I was in the first "Starship Exeter" - as moving, talking fanzine stories. The participation of actors working for free doesn't make one fan film any more official than another.

I do dislike James Cawley’s ego-mania cameo as “Commander Kirk”, though. Winds me up. Be in the film? Fine. Try to pass yourself off as the nephew of William Shatner’s Kirk? Fail!

It's an actor's fault that a scripted cameo role should have been a different character?

Maybe he was passing himself off as the nephew of James Cawley’s Kirk from "New Voyages" and "Phase II"?

Let me guess! You were one of the blue people

Agreed with every fan film bar SToGaM. What I loved about it was you could believe it was a real Trek film, albeit one with zero-budget. Uhura retired and got married. The real Uhura. I can’t just say “oh that doesn’t count it didn’t happen”. I know official stuff has to/already has/will ignore it, but I saw it. She’s married and lives happily ever after. The end.
It’s like if the President yelled “Death to America!” and everyone said “it doesn’t count since he said it outside office hours”. Rubbish analogy, but I hope you all get what I mean.

I don't see how playing Kirk's nephew is any more "ego-maniacal" than playing Kirk himself. And he's got to be better than the guy who played Peter in "Blood and Fire".

It's odd that you slam James Cawley in the same post that you applaud his sets... the ones he let OGAM use. And if featuring "real" Star Trek actors and writers and crew is the criteria that you are judging a production's inclusion in the concordance by, than Star Trek New Voyages: Phase II hit that mark long before OGAM was even a glimmer in someone's mind. Majel and Rod Roddenberry are even part of the "crew". (Majel participated before her passing, and left NVP2 the rights to keep using her voice afterward.)

I guess I'm just confused as to why you think OGAM stands apart from STNVP2 when the latter can produce a list of Trek alumni that far out stretches OGAM.

I guess I see him as an impostor on a bridge full of ‘real’ trekkers, and it takes me out of it a bit?
I don’t want to seem anti-Cawley - I realize the whole thing was only possible because of his sets and friends. And I really am looking forward to the Phase II version of Mr Arex.

Maybe at the very least an entry in the Ency for “fan films” could list the most prominent TOS ones with weblinks? I still think Of Gods and Men deserves some sort of preferential treatment, though.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Well, then we get into the same issue as novels. Which ones to include? Which ones get ignored? Does Cawley's operation get preferential treatment over, say, Starship Exeter? How 'bout the story records from the '70's? They have the advantage of being licensed works, at least. You go down that road and it never ends.

 

[TerriO]

In my not so humble estimation, fan films should only be included if the project is going to include all of the fanfic that's been done over the years. In which case, I have an old SNW-rejected DS9 story that's going back up on the fanfic area of my website as soon as I get a chance to rewrite the code.

ETA: So, what do you plan on doing with the fanfic? If fan films are, as you mentioned above, out, then logically fanfic would be as well. Which would save you quite a bit of time. That would leave you with just the licensed products and unlicensed academic works. So, where's the advantage to this project over Memory Alpha or Memory Beta? Of course, this is the same question that gets asked over the ST:Encyclopedia, but that's neither here nor there. What's the drawing appeal of this project besides potential for Bjo's name on it? The resources are already out there. It's like 80s compilation CDs. Why should I bother with the compilation when I have everything in their individual releases already?

 

[Lindley]

Several of the 24th century fan series have merged into a common continuity at this point, and a similar process seems to be occurring with the 23rd century shows (Starship Farragut crossing over with NV, etc).

It's getting to the point where if you include one, you have to include them all.....

The one thing that bugs me about the current 24th century fanfilm direction is that it doesn't meld all that well with the current novel direction. This isn't really a problem since neither is beholden to the other, but it would be nice if there were more consistency.

I guess it's hard to make both the Tholian War and the Borg attack happen in the same timeline....

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

bove, out, then logically fanfic would be as well. Which would save you quite a bit of time. That would leave you with just the licensed products and unlicensed academic works. So, where's the advantage to this project over Memory Alpha or Memory Beta? Of course, this is the same question that gets asked over the ST:Encyclopedia, but that's neither here nor there. What's the drawing appeal of this project besides potential for Bjo's name on it? The resources are already out there. It's like 80s compilation CDs. Why should I bother with the compilation when I have everything in their individual releases already?

Thats the general question I had. In the 70s the Concordance was pretty much a one of a kind resource. Now, so far as I can see, its obsolete.

 

[Captain Robert April]

So, where's the advantage to this project over Memory Alpha or Memory Beta? Of course, this is the same question that gets asked over the ST:Encyclopedia, but that's neither here nor there. What's the drawing appeal of this project besides potential for Bjo's name on it? The resources are already out there. It's like 80s compilation CDs. Why should I bother with the compilation when I have everything in their individual releases already?

Partially nostalgia, partially unfinished business. The '95 edition was a major disappointment on several levels, especially with the shlocky layout and the exclusion of a ton of previously approved fan art, so there's the frustration factor of feeling that a proper update was never done, and therefore never given a fair chance, coupled with all the material that's come out since the last go around.

And as nice and comprehensive as the various websites are, and as much as they're gonna be looked at during this update, a certain bibliophile lawyer had it right. There's nothing like a good ol' fashioned book.

 

[Captain Robert April]

In my not so humble estimation, fan films should only be included if the project is going to include all of the fanfic that's been done over the years. In which case, I have an old SNW-rejected DS9 story that's going back up on the fanfic area of my website as soon as I get a chance to rewrite the code.

ETA: So, what do you plan on doing with the fanfic? If fan films are, as you mentioned above, out, then logically fanfic would be as well. Which would save you quite a bit of time. That would leave you with just the licensed products and unlicensed academic works.

Slightly separate issue, so dealt with separately.

Fanfic, in any form, has never been included in any version of the Concordance, so why would anyone think it'd be included this time?

 

[TerriO]

And as nice and comprehensive as the various websites are, and as much as they're gonna be looked at during this update, a certain bibliophile lawyer had it right. There's nothing like a good ol' fashioned book.

And that notion is growing increasingly outdated. Just throwing out potential issues here, forgive me if it's a bit stream of consciousness. Internet penetration in America has grown, as of a 2004 Neilsen report to 3/4 of the population of this country. B&N can't keep the Nook in stock. Kindle broke huge. eReader sales are growing. Look at the amount of kids who think Wikipedia is a legitimate substitute for a real encyclopedia. The future is growing increasingly online and networked. Just because you may prefer a book, that doesn't mean that kids these days or kids ten years from now will. They're going to grow up with this technology being the norm. Let's say you do end up with electronic paper for publishing said book, which might appeal to these increasingly online children, how are you going to make sure it remains updated? And that's nothing when looking at the potential environmental impact of making people buy brand new electronic paper books. Look at the cell phone recycling programs that have cropped up in recent years.

Green initiatives are growing all over the place. And the environmental impact of any publication, whether geared toward future generations or good old-fashioned bibliophiles, has to be taken into consideration.

In my not so humble estimation, fan films should only be included if the project is going to include all of the fanfic that's been done over the years. In which case, I have an old SNW-rejected DS9 story that's going back up on the fanfic area of my website as soon as I get a chance to rewrite the code.

ETA: So, what do you plan on doing with the fanfic? If fan films are, as you mentioned above, out, then logically fanfic would be as well. Which would save you quite a bit of time. That would leave you with just the licensed products and unlicensed academic works.

Slightly separate issue, so dealt with separately.

Fanfic, in any form, has never been included in any version of the Concordance, so why would anyone think it'd be included this time?

Because if you're even contemplating fan film, it only makes sense for the sake of parity. If you include fan art, shouldn't you include all forms of fan art?

But, hey, if a company wants to lose money hand over fist in this economy, that's their call.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Fan art of canon subject matter. Not even close to the same thing as a fanfic. A drawing of the battle in "The Ultimate Computer" is fine, but a picture from one of Jacqueline Lichtenberg's Kraith series isn't.

As for fanfilms, well, if push came to shove, the only ones that have a snowball's chance in hell is Crawley's, because it's written, mostly, by TOS veterans, features Trek actors, in some cases using TOS and Phase II scripts and stories that never got produced, and has the blessing of the Roddenberry family. That's about as close to the mark as a fanfilm is gonna get, but I think it still gets left out, because it's still a fan film and not an actual, official, Desilu/Paramount production. But again, Bjo may surprise me on that front, and James and I might wind up exchanging a lot of messages on Facebook in the near future.

As far as other media, nobody's ruling that out. In fact, it all started out with the idea of a download-on-demand .pdf kind of concept; it wasn't until a little later that the issue of publishing rights having reverted back to Bjo came up.

Besides, the most frequent question I've gotten about this thing, after "will the new movie be included?", is "will it have the wheel?" So at least part of the market for this puppy is interested in a hardcopy book.

 

[TerriO]

So, am I reading you right that some fan arts are more valid than others? Are you saying fan art is only valid fan art if it's of a moment that was onscreen? And where's the artistry in that? Might as well just take a screen capture and be done with it. If you're only going for recreation, you're really limiting the artists. Isn't that a bit of an elitist viewpoint to take? Especially from someone working on what could be classified as fan art itself?

Have you run any numbers yet? Do you know how much will it cost to print the kind of book you want, and how many sacrifices are you willing to make to get a reasonably-priced product? The least-intelligent thing you could do if you attempt this is price yourself out of the market.