The new Concordance (again) and ST: Of Gods and Men

[Captain Robert April]

I'm letting Bjo worry about the pricing part. She's been down this road before and it's her book.

As for the fan art matter, the subject matter is restricted to only canon material for the same reason that the Encyclopedia and Chronology only concerns canon material, because I don't feel like editing an eighty-seven volume version of this thing!

The line has to be drawn somewhere, and that's it.

 

[Agenda]

For the love of god, please do not legitimize the idea that Uhura got married to frickin' Stonn of all people, just because Lawrence Montaigne happened to be available. It's ludicrous.

 

[seigezunt]

For the love of god, please do not legitimize the idea that Uhura got married to frickin' Stonn of all people, just because Lawrence Montaigne happened to be available. It's ludicrous.

whoa, really?

 

[Captain Robert April]

For the love of god, please do not legitimize the idea that Uhura got married to frickin' Stonn of all people, just because Lawrence Montaigne happened to be available. It's ludicrous.

Never heard of that one, but thank you for encapsulating the whole issue in a nutshell.

Including something like that would be just as silly as shoehorning in something from my own fanfics. Not to mention the issue of dealing with all the insulted people connected with stuff that gets left out simply because we've never heard of it.

Now, something dealing strictly with fanfic, that's another topic, but for the Concordance, no, the purview of that one has pretty much been set since '68, and there's no good reason to change it now.

 

[seigezunt]

Okay, so who's going to write this fanfic concordance? Anybody?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Okay, so who's going to write this fanfic concordance? Anybody?

http://stexpanded.wikia.com/wiki/Fan_fiction

 

[Shaw]

Opinions?

Sure, I have one...

You said:

I don’t want to seem anti-Cawley - I realize the whole thing was only possible because of his sets and friends. And I really am looking forward to the Phase II version of Mr Arex.

Well, maybe you could do us the favor of editing out this line from your original post.

(I do dislike James Cawley’s ego-mania cameo as “Commander Kirk”, though. Winds me up. Be in the film? Fine. Try to pass yourself off as the nephew of William Shatner’s Kirk? Fail!)

If you don't want to seem anti-Cawley, then it might help to dial it back by removing that remark.

But that is just an opinion.

 

[TerriO]

I'm letting Bjo worry about the pricing part. She's been down this road before and it's her book.

As for the fan art matter, the subject matter is restricted to only canon material for the same reason that the Encyclopedia and Chronology only concerns canon material, because I don't feel like editing an eighty-seven volume version of this thing!

The line has to be drawn somewhere, and that's it.

Okay, so what's the difference between a drawing of Kirk and Edith Keeler that is not taken from a screenshot, and a fic of what happened onscreen from Edith Keeler's POV? Where's your deciding point for what's "canon material" and what isn't? Sounds like this is a major attempt to tailor the book to the predilections of one incredibly small niche of Trekdom to me.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

If the Concordance has traditionally included listings for fan fiction - and I don't know that one way or the other - then an argument can be made for including fan films in a new edition.

If the Concordance has been limited to official onscreen material, then no non-Paramount Trek-based film should be included.

Agreed with every fan film bar SToGaM. What I loved about it was you could believe it was a real Trek film, albeit one with zero-budget."

Sorry, but no. This is ultimately a matter of personal taste, but there are at least a couple of legitimately fan films that are better made than SToGAM (and I'll personally start with WEAT). I say "legitimately fan" because the producers of SToGAM sell copies of it through email solicitations, which is not only a violation of Paramount's trademarks and intellectual property rights (all fan films are that, in principle, whether any "informal agreements" exist permitting them or not) but moves the production out of the realm of fannish activity and definitely smack into being a sub rosa, unlicensed commercial venture. They're breaking the law and courting big trouble.

 

[Christopher]

If the Concordance has traditionally included listings for fan fiction - and I don't know that one way or the other - then an argument can be made for including fan films in a new edition.

If the Concordance has been limited to official onscreen material, then no non-Paramount Trek-based film should be included.

The Concordance never covered fan fiction. It would've had to be a far, far thicker book to have any hope of covering even a representative sample. The first edition had a few pages of fan art, but that's not really the same thing, since it was just illustrations of people, scenes, and insignias from TOS and TAS, rather than representations of anything new.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Then there's no real reason that it should be expanded to cover fan fiction and fan films now, is there?

Sounds like this is a major attempt to tailor the book to the predilections of one incredibly small niche of Trekdom to me.

And there you have almost the definition of fan publishing.

Popular as the Concordance was in 1970s fandom, it was always a work directed at a relatively small group of dedicated fans. As such, it was enormously useful and influential within that group.

The one attempt to produce a version for the mass market - by Ballantine Books - was a mixed bag, and as you note the vast majority (over 99 percent, probably) of people who go looking now for a piece of information about Star Trek will do so online. So not only is a new edition of the Concordance a product for a niche group, but there's no longer a possibility that it will be influential within the larger fanbase.

 

[Therin of Andor]

What I loved about it was you could believe it was a real Trek film, albeit one with zero-budget.

Um, who says it had a zero-budget? Looks like a lot of people spent a lot of money. Probably much more money than other fan films, which is probably why they seem keen to flirt with danger and "sell" DVD copies.

 

[CaptJimboJones]

What I loved about it was you could believe it was a real Trek film, albeit one with zero-budget.

Um, who says it had a zero-budget? Looks like a lot of people spent a lot of money. Probably much more money than other fan films, which is probably why they seem keen to flirt with danger and "sell" DVD copies.

IIRC, the actors and crew were paid, and Sky Conway said publicly that he had hoped to strike a deal with Paramount to be able to sell the DVDs, or have them distributed as "extras" with official Trek DVDs. I always got the impression that it was meant from the beginning to be a money-making venture, but Paramount didn't go along with it.

I'm still a little amazed that Paramount didn't shut this thing down, given how closely it got to breaking the unofficial "rules" of fan films.

 

[USS Intrepid]

I see no reason for a new Concordance to fature fanfilms of fanfiction, and I say that as both a fan, and someone who has worked on them.

As for OGAM, I don't care who is in it, Phase II and Farragut are vastly better written and produced. IMO of course. And neither of them try selling their efforts via dubious 'loopholes'.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'm still a little amazed that Paramount didn't shut this thing down, given how closely it got to breaking the unofficial "rules" of fan films.

It didn't "get close." It's broken them.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Opinions?

Sure, I have one...

You said:

I don’t want to seem anti-Cawley - I realize the whole thing was only possible because of his sets and friends. And I really am looking forward to the Phase II version of Mr Arex.

Well, maybe you could do us the favor of editing out this line from your original post.

(I do dislike James Cawley’s ego-mania cameo as “Commander Kirk”, though. Winds me up. Be in the film? Fine. Try to pass yourself off as the nephew of William Shatner’s Kirk? Fail!)

If you don't want to seem anti-Cawley, then it might help to dial it back by removing that remark.

But that is just an opinion.

I personally hate it when I'm reading a thread and it doesn't make sense because the earlier comments have been changed. I don't think my comments were offensive by any means, and I still wish he was "Commander Kurt" or something.

Sorry, but no. This is ultimately a matter of personal taste, but there are at least a couple of legitimately fan films that are better made than SToGAM (and I'll personally start with WEAT). I say "legitimately fan" because the producers of SToGAM sell copies of it through email solicitations, which is not only a violation of Paramount's trademarks and intellectual property rights (all fan films are that, in principle, whether any "informal agreements" exist permitting them or not) but moves the production out of the realm of fannish activity and definitely smack into being a sub rosa, unlicensed commercial venture. They're breaking the law and courting big trouble.

The reason I love STOGAM more than the Phase II films is the actors - it was a Star Trek reunion of sorts, and I loved seeing everyone again.

I'm not advocating any dodgy DVD deals by any means. I got my version from the net and burned it to a DVD myself.
(although last I heard you bought InAlienable and got SToGaM 'free')

What I loved about it was you could believe it was a real Trek film, albeit one with zero-budget.

Um, who says it had a zero-budget? Looks like a lot of people spent a lot of money. Probably much more money than other fan films, which is probably why they seem keen to flirt with danger and "sell" DVD copies.

I meant zero-budget compared to "real" Star Trek films or episodes. I think I read somewhere ages ago they spent something like $150,000 on it (but I could be miles off)

 

[Therin of Andor]

I meant zero-budget compared to "real" Star Trek films or episodes. I think I read somewhere ages ago they spent something like $150,000 on it (but I could be miles off)

You want zero-budget fan films? You shoulda seen "Free Maltz!", "Sale of the 23rd Century" and "Perfect Botch". Now they were zero budget!

"Free Maltz!" - running for the Galactic Senate.

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ Sid and Marty Krofft would be proud

 

[seigezunt]

huh?

 

[PaulSimpson]

^ Sid and Marty Krofft would be proud

It's quite frightening when someone has exactly the same thought - particularly when it's as off the wall as that one! Ward, stop mind reading!!