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Summer nuTrek novels pulled-TrekMovie.Com

I'll agree that several creators may consider alternate sources of material "canon", but I don't for one second agree that they actually fit the criteria. If Whedon were given a chance at a big budget Buffy film, and was told by the studio the only way it would be greenlit would be if he ignored the comic series, and went in a completely different direction, he'd do it in a heartbeat. So would JMS with B5, or any other creator in that position. Ancillary products like books or comics can enter into a creator's continuity, but they're never going to be canon, simply because they don't have enough of an audience to care if they count or not. Canon can be overruled and sublimated, but it's generally not outright ignored. Tie-ins are all the time. And, honestly, that's kinda the way I think it should be.

True, but as you say, even canon can be ignored or rewritten. Look at Dallas, which retconned a whole season into a dream in order to justify bringing back a killed-off cast member. And any long-running canon has subtler changes in it as well. Sometimes rather glaring changes are made without justification; in The Greatest American Hero, the main character Ralph Hinkley's surname was abruptly changed to Henley for a while after John Hinckley's attempted assassination of President Reagan, while in Alien Nation, a deadly disease contracted by one of the main characters in the pilot was completely abandoned as a plot point by the second episode and never mentioned again. And that's nothing compared to the Alien Nation revival movies. The first one retconned the entire series finale out of canon, and later ones retconned the family's baby daughter into nonexistence.

So calling something canonical is by no means a promise that it will always be obeyed. As I said, it's a myth that canon is binding on the creators and restricts what they can do. The reality is that canon is what the creators say it is. And part and parcel of what that means is that if they say the canon is something different than it was a decade or a year or a week ago, then it becomes something different.

So yeah, you have a point that canon from creator-overseen books and comics is more easily abandoned than onscreen canon, but that doesn't prove it isn't canon, because even onscreen canon is changed or ignored all the time. Yes, it's only canon until the creators say it isn't, but the same goes for all other canon.
 
Look at Dallas, which retconned a whole season into a dream in order to justify bringing back a killed-off cast member.

Which really screwed with Dallas spin-off Knots Landing's storyline in which Bobby's death had profound effect on his brother Gary. KL chose to ignore Bobby's "return" entirely and yet both shows are canon in the Dallas-verse.
 
This has happened numerous times before: novels get approved twice: at the proposal stage and the final draft manuscript stage.

I get that much, but is there no restriction on it at all? No "such permission may not be unreasonably withheld" clause?

It's one thing requesting changes, even major changes, to the books. But it's another to suddenly go "actually, no".

So I wonder if it was something like that, that major changes were requested that Pocket decided against them. But to do that for four books seems unlikely.
 
What you're overlooking, though, is that someone has to make that rule. And it can be changed. There are cases in other franchises of creator-overseen tie-ins being regarded as canonical by those creators -- the Del Rey Babylon 5 novels (outlined and approved by J. Michael Straczynski) and the "Season 8" Buffy the Vampire Slayer comics ("executive produced" by Joss Whedon), for instance. As a general rule, canon is that which is created under the direct guidance of the franchise's creator, regardless of its medium. It's not about film vs. print, since after all the earlier Buffy comics from the same publisher were non-canonical (since Whedon didn't directly oversee their creation).

So if Abrams' "Supreme Court" chose to oversee the creation of tie-ins that they chose to regard as canonical, nobody could prevent them from doing so, because they're the ones who are now defining what canon is.
There has never been any attempt to imitate the approach of the Star Wars novels. After all, Star Wars is a latecomer compared to Star Trek, both in film and in prose. The SW novels' approach is far more inflexible than that of the ST novels.
Given the Supreme Court's previous praise of the Star Wars franchise in general, it's possible (even if Roberto Orci wasn't directly involved) that there was a "ruling" somewhere along the line that they would now like to start imitating that approach...

That ship has long since sailed on the Prime universe, of course, but since the Abramsverse is itself a "latecomer," they might have reasoned that this is an opportunity to a keep tighter control on its canon/continuity from the beginning, and set up the coordination of it in a manner similar to Lucasfilm's use of Leland Chee and the "Holocron."

2) Pocket discovered that their license with CBS was not all-encompassing and did not cover the film. However, as Pocket did publish a novelization of said film, I find this unlikely. On the other hand, the rights for the Art of book were sold to Titan Books, so it's possible that the merchandising rights for the film are separate from the merchandising rights for the rest of the franchise.
I can see where you're going with this (a situation similar to Big Finish's Doctor Who licence), but I'd be rather surprised if a) this was the case, and 2) no one had noticed until after four novels were all-but-published.

OTOH, it's possible that Bad Robot has some sort of stipulation which would allow it to exert greater control over tie-ins related specifically to the new film, above and beyond even the normal approval process for Star Trek products.

In other words, we're just in speculation land here. Riddles in the dark. :)
Oh, definitely...everything I wrote above is pure speculation, based on nothing more than what's been said so far, and an attempt to read the tea leaves of the public statement on the matter.
 
There are several examples where the tie-in proposal was approved, but the final manuscript had to be tweaked (or cancelled). Sometimes, as with novels like "Probe", "Metamorphosis" and "A Flag Full of Stars", DC Comics' TOS Series II (issue #1), and the graphic novel "Debt of Honor", big last-minute changes were ordered even though the original proposals identified that certain story elements, now objected to, would be in the manuscript.

What happened to "Debt of Honor"? (I assume that the Series II changes was the forced removal of the new characters they'd introduced in the first run?)
 
I assume that the Series II changes was the forced removal of the new characters they'd introduced in the first run?
M'Ress was in the first issue, and she had to be redrawn at a late stage into M'yra. So it's safe to assume that Paramount (or, more accurately, Richard Arnold) okayed the script with M'Ress in it, and then changed their (or, more accurately, his) mind(s) when the comic was in production.
 
Just read on Kevin Killany's blog that there is an omnibus scheduled for July.

Well that's good news. I really wasn't expecting Pocket to be able to crank out some last minute releases, even omnibuses. If they release a couple SCE books that would take a lot of the sting out of this.
 
Given the Supreme Court's previous praise of the Star Wars franchise in general, it's possible (even if Roberto Orci wasn't directly involved) that there was a "ruling" somewhere along the line that they would now like to start imitating that approach...

That ship has long since sailed on the Prime universe, of course, but since the Abramsverse is itself a "latecomer," they might have reasoned that this is an opportunity to a keep tighter control on its canon/continuity from the beginning, and set up the coordination of it in a manner similar to Lucasfilm's use of Leland Chee and the "Holocron."

Decent reasoning, but all Chee and the Holocron do is keep a reign on licensed tie-ins, and make sure they all fit together (sort of), something the ST novels have been doing quite well for years now. I'll guarantee you there wasn't anything in any of those four books that contradicted something in another of the books, and I don't see why Pocket would have any trouble with maintaining an internal consistency in the product they're producing for the JJverse. Now, maintaining a continuity with the comics produced would be something new (and entirely unwelcome, from my perspective), but it still seems to be an extreme step to cancel four fully produced novels just a couple of months from publication because of some bullshit "canon" disagreement.
 
And even with the Star Wars novels' continuity, the books still tend to run into characterization problems. Remember when Jaina's love interest changed depending on who was writing this month's novel?
 
Given the Supreme Court's previous praise of the Star Wars franchise in general, it's possible (even if Roberto Orci wasn't directly involved) that there was a "ruling" somewhere along the line that they would now like to start imitating that approach...

That ship has long since sailed on the Prime universe, of course, but since the Abramsverse is itself a "latecomer," they might have reasoned that this is an opportunity to a keep tighter control on its canon/continuity from the beginning, and set up the coordination of it in a manner similar to Lucasfilm's use of Leland Chee and the "Holocron."
Decent reasoning, but all Chee and the Holocron do is keep a reign on licensed tie-ins, and make sure they all fit together (sort of), something the ST novels have been doing quite well for years now.
Right, but (as Christopher pointed out) this is something that's arisen in the Star Trek novels more out of authorial and editorial preference rather than any edict(s) from the company in charge, who don't seem too concerned one way or the other and don't object to novels/comics going outside those parameters.

The use of Chee and the Holocron just demonstrate how on some level, Lucasfilm as a company is concerned about fitting it all together ("sort of" :)) in a way that CBS as a company is not, but that Bad Robot (theoretically) might.

I'll guarantee you there wasn't anything in any of those four books that contradicted something in another of the books, and I don't see why Pocket would have any trouble with maintaining an internal consistency in the product they're producing for the JJverse. Now, maintaining a continuity with the comics produced would be something new (and entirely unwelcome, from my perspective), but it still seems to be an extreme step to cancel four fully produced novels just a couple of months from publication because of some bullshit "canon" disagreement.
Beyond the Star Wars example, the main franchise that came to mind for me was Firefly/Serenity, in which a proposed line of tie-in novels never came out after Serenity because Joss Whedon's office failed to approve any of the outlines (several of which were from familiar ST authors).

To the extent that Whedon has talked about it, his concerns were about more than just continuity disagreements, which I'm sure Pocket (also the company involved in that case) would've had a handle on--he seemed to suggest that he would want to keep a closer eye on the novels than just that level of continuity (to "Executive Produce" it, to use his term for what he does on Buffy Season 8), so that all of it reflected his creative and thematic "vision" of the 'verse (to use the terminology of the Pocket Books statement). Because he was more concerned about this point with the Serenity novels than the previous Buffy/Angel novels/comics, they never moved forward.

My (completely speculative, as I said before) guess is that something similar might be happening here.
 
Beyond the Star Wars example, the main franchise that came to mind for me was Firefly/Serenity, in which a proposed line of tie-in novels never came out after Serenity because Joss Whedon's office failed to approve any of the outlines (several of which were from familiar ST authors).

To the extent that Whedon has talked about it, his concerns were about more than just continuity disagreements, which I'm sure Pocket (also the company involved in that case) would've had a handle on--he seemed to suggest that he would want to keep a closer eye on the novels than just that level of continuity (to "Executive Produce" it, to use his term for what he does on Buffy Season 8), so that all of it reflected his creative and thematic "vision" of the 'verse (to use the terminology of the Pocket Books statement). Because he was more concerned about this point with the Serenity novels than the previous Buffy/Angel novels/comics, they never moved forward.

And yet...

scifiwire said:
Joss Whedon's beloved Firefly/Serenity is long gone, but you can't stop the signal: Fans can look for more adventures of Capt. Mal Reynolds and the crew of the doughty ship in a series of short stories coming soon from Titan Books.

Writer/producer Jane Espenson—who wrote one episode of the Fox sci-fi series but is a longtime friend and colleague of Whedon's going back to her days on Buffy the Vampire Slayer—told us that she will be writing one of the stories, centering on the characters of Kaylee and Wash (obviously set in a time period before the events of the movie Serenity).

(http://scifiwire.com/2010/01/firefly-to-live-on-in-new.php)
 
And yet...
scifiwire said:
Joss Whedon's beloved Firefly/Serenity is long gone, but you can't stop the signal: Fans can look for more adventures of Capt. Mal Reynolds and the crew of the doughty ship in a series of short stories coming soon from Titan Books.

Writer/producer Jane Espenson—who wrote one episode of the Fox sci-fi series but is a longtime friend and colleague of Whedon's going back to her days on Buffy the Vampire Slayer—told us that she will be writing one of the stories, centering on the characters of Kaylee and Wash (obviously set in a time period before the events of the movie Serenity).
(http://scifiwire.com/2010/01/firefly-to-live-on-in-new.php)
I thought about that as I was writing my previous post, but since I don't know more about that anthology than what was mentioned in that article, I stuck with the older example (which seemed more applicable).

Jane Espenson's comments seem to imply that the anthology would only contain short stories by writers from the television series (such as herself), which may be how/why it got Whedon's blessing (assuming it does have that blessing). I don't foresee the equivalent happening with Abramsverse stories...

On the flip side, the fact that it's coming out at all (at some point, though I'm still waiting for "The Shepherd's Tale" from Dark Horse :/) is cause to hope for tie-in series everywhere. :)
 
I am late to this thread....and shocked by this news. I was really looking forward to an exploration of the new universe by reading the novels....but that has been taken away. Sadness....

One thing that comes to mind is a discussion about "Troublesome Minds"...a while back. Wasn't there some discussion during the creative process about that novel being the first nutrek book? I know that is not the case, and that "Troublesome Minds" firmly is locked into the prime universe, but I seem to remember talk that it could have been the first nutrek novel if a couple changes had been made.

Really have to wonder what changed between then...and now...
 
Too bad for the authors, but I think it's a damn good move from a continuity standpoint.

but was this a big concern before???

i am pretty sure there were novels coming out between the other movies that had contradictions with the movies that came afterward.


as much as i liked the new movie i feel like by this orci, kurtzman , abrams and pocket have just screwed the fans and especially the authors
whose books got torpedoed.

i was just telling some friends tonight about these books.
now i have to tell them the idiots that be have postponed them to ghod knows when.
 
It's one thing requesting changes, even major changes, to the books. But it's another to suddenly go "actually, no".

No, it's not. The authors know that going in. Imagine, if you were the property holder, would you want what you were concerned was inferior or conflicting material going out to your consumers, and might cause them to become soured on the parent product due to a poor tie-in? You'd want to reserve the right to back out at any time.

During last few years/months of the Star Trek Office's existence, we saw a few ST books (several novels and Shane Johnson's "The Worlds of the Federation") come out with a disclaimer that...

"The plot and background details... are solely the authors' interpretation off the universe of STAR TREK (R) and vary in some respects from the universe as created by Gene Roddenberry."

... but that was when both Viacom/Paramount Licensing and Richard Arnold (on behalf of GR) were vetting the proposals and final manuscripts. But according to Richard Arnold (at a Brisbane convention a year later), Pocket was only supposed to use that disclaimer once, for "Prime Directive" (IIRC) - a novel that was too close to deadline to have all the corrections RA/GR wanted made (after having already approved the proposal months earlier). RA said the disclaimer wasn't intended to be a "home free" card to get around Star Trek Office approval memos. So, although a similar disclaimer did appear on novels, such as "Home is the Hunter" and "Vendetta" (IIRC), the authors were supposed to still be tweaking to satisfy the STO and Viacom/Paramount Licensing.

i am pretty sure there were novels coming out between the other movies that had contradictions with the movies that came afterward.

Sure - and people still complain about them!

a discussion about "Troublesome Minds"...a while back. Wasn't there some discussion during the creative process about that novel being the first nutrek book? I know that is not the case, and that "Troublesome Minds" firmly is locked into the prime universe, but I seem to remember talk that it could have been the first nutrek novel if a couple changes had been made.

No, wasn't it that it was held up as an upcoming example that TOS novels would continue to be published despite JJ's film altering the timeline? Not that it was ever planned to be in the new continuity set by the film.
 
What happened to "Debt of Honor"?

As someone else mentioned, mainly that the Duane characters (including Naraht the horta) and Arex and M'Ress be dropped, but also a few Tuckerisms. Some got through, but Richard Arnold nixed a character named for Peter David and a few others (Weinstein, Friedman, etc, IIRC).

Also, that a Deltan woman with McCoy, in a pre-TOS flashback, be given a tall 60s hairstyle, just in case first contact hadn't been made with Delta IV at that point.

(I assume that the Series II changes was the forced removal of the new characters they'd introduced in the first run?)

Peter David already understood that he wouldn't be able to use Konom, Bryce, Bearclaw, Bernie and Sherwood in Series II, but the artwork for Issue #1 featured M'Ress (and he had plans to switch Arex over to Security Chief), but M'Ress had to be redrawn as M'yra.

3776800579_e7035572a2_o.jpg


3776800681_d8fbbf128f_o.jpg
 
And even with the Star Wars novels' continuity, the books still tend to run into characterization problems. Remember when Jaina's love interest changed depending on who was writing this month's novel?

not to mention Leia's wildly fluctuating level of training and skill with the Force/Lightsabres
 
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