Star Trek Concordance -- One More Time!

[Captain Robert April]

Thanks to my being a persistent nuisance to Bjo Trimble , work will begin shortly on a new edition of the venerable Star Trek Concordance. It'll probably be strictly a pay-for-download basis, but I'm gonna see if maybe the prospects for a hardcopy version might be a little less dire than is currently believed.

Comments and questions are welcome.

 

[seigezunt]

I hope the updates include referents to the new movie.

 

[TheAlmanac]

Judging by the last edition of the Concordance (which included entries for episodes like "Unification" and "Blood Oath"), I would assume that a new edition would have entries for anything made since then which includes TOS characters--which does include the new movie, of course.

 

[seigezunt]

Then the punishment fits the crime.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Don't count on much regarding the new movie. Nothing lines up with anything outside of that abominable film, so if there is any mention, it will be in its own, self-contained section, safely away from the rest of the Star Trek universe.

Just like the film itself.

 

[Steve Roby]

I'm gonna see if maybe the prospects for a hardcopy version might be a little less dire than is currently believed.

Have you investigated lulu.com? It's possible to do good quality print-on-demand through them for a reasonable price, though some people decide to charge unrealistic prices (and it's easy to tell who's marking up the price by a few hundred percent).

If you think the movie's abominable and shouldn't be included, you're on the wrong track already -- first, because it was far from abominable, and second, because a lot of people saw it and may be interested in something that discusses it. But then, I assume you want people to buy it. I may be wrong.

 

[Christopher]

If one were to include or exclude parts of the TOS canon based on perceived quality, that would suggest the omission of things like "The Alternative Factor," much of the third season, and ST V. A reference book is supposed to be comprehensive and objective, not narrow and partisan.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Don't count on much regarding the new movie. Nothing lines up with anything outside of that abominable film, so if there is any mention, it will be in its own, self-contained section, safely away from the rest of the Star Trek universe.

Just like the film itself.

Oh really? Try the USS Kelvin (that was bigger than the TOS Enterprise)and the stuff in Spock Prime's mindmeld with Kirk, that recounts prime-universe events.

I'd love to hear what Bjo thinks of the new film, good or bad.

And I hope she does away with the nonsensical 'cosmos' section and sticks all the planets in the main Ency.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, the Lexicon in the '90s edition was dreadfully organized.

Then again, if this edition ends up online, its index could be much more easily searched.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Don't count on much regarding the new movie. Nothing lines up with anything outside of that abominable film, so if there is any mention, it will be in its own, self-contained section, safely away from the rest of the Star Trek universe.

Just like the film itself.

Oh really? Try the USS Kelvin (that was bigger than the TOS Enterprise)and the stuff in Spock Prime's mindmeld with Kirk, that recounts prime-universe events.

It's still debatable whether "Spock Prime" and the Kelvin are even from the mainline Star Trek universe in the first place (I'm in the camp that, between the tech discrepancies with the Kelvin and Spock's behavior, it's obnoxiously clear that the whole thing is one big alternate timeline which doesn't come near the established continuity).

I'd love to hear what Bjo thinks of the new film, good or bad.

I'm sure the subject will come up.

And I hope she does away with the nonsensical 'cosmos' section and sticks all the planets in the main Ency.

That's her call. My job is simply to put it into a more pleasing format (more akin to the '76 Ballantine version, minus the wheel -- haven't figured out how to get a newer version to work).

 

[Captain Robert April]

If one were to include or exclude parts of the TOS canon based on perceived quality, that would suggest the omission of things like "The Alternative Factor," much of the third season, and ST V. A reference book is supposed to be comprehensive and objective, not narrow and partisan.

The scope of the Concordance is already limited in its scope in that we can only include select portions of the spinoff shows and movies. And with the new movie, by its own definition, being its own continuity, that argues against its inclusion to any great degree all by itself.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

I'm in the camp that, between the tech discrepancies with the Kelvin and Spock's behavior, it's obnoxiously clear that the whole thing is one big alternate timeline which doesn't come near the established continuity.

Please explain. Spock Prime's behavior is perfectly in continuity with TOS and the films that came afterward. His on-screen character arc spans almost 45 years. While young Spock was at odds with his dual nature, elderly Spock not only accepted it but embraced it. Note how many times he smiled in TWOK. The post-V'ger Spock well understood that the path governed solely by logic was not the right one.

 

[Captain Robert April]

The Spock from TOS would, immediately upon discovering that he was in a past time period, begin his calculations for a time warp, to get to a point in order to repair whatever damage has occurred and restore the damaged timeline. This Spock does none of that. Logic dictates that this is not the same Spock.

 

[JoeP]

The Spock from TOS would, immediately upon discovering that he was in a past time period, begin his calculations for a time warp, to get to a point in order to repair whatever damage has occurred and restore the damaged timeline. This Spock does none of that. Logic dictates that this is not the same Spock.

But that would only work if he weren't in an alternate universe that was created when he went back in time. If he were to time warp forward in time, it would be the future of that reality where the Kevlin was attacked, Kirk's dad was killed, Vulcan is destroyed, and in which Biff is corrupt, powerful, and married to your mother.

It's not unreasonable to presume Old Spock knew this (since Young Spock deduced it on his own) and knew it would be futile to try.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

Exactly. Spock Prime didn't go back in time as much as he went sideways into an alternate universe. Travelling up or down the Abramverse timeline would have repaired nothing, nor would it send him home. Spock knew this, and he made the most of his situation by influencing what few events he could.

 

[Captain Robert April]

If only from a perspective of personal responsibility, he'd attempt a time warp to repair the damage, regardless of whether it was his home universe or not. The option isn't even raised.

Not our Spock.

It doesn't help that the Kelvin looks more TNG than pre-TOS.

Messed up no matter where you look.

 

[JoeP]

Risk further damage, and possibly create another parallel universe, in a vain attempt to assuage some measure of guilt (if he even has a reason to feel guilty, which he doesn't)? Sounds misguided and illogical.

 

[Christopher]

Can we not dredge up this same argument again? It's beside the point. The Concordance is a reference book covering every onscreen appearance of TOS characters. Continuity shouldn't even be a consideration, since it included TAS even at a time when TAS was pseudo-officially regarded as noncanonical. The new movie, like it or not, includes TOS elements and a TOS cast member, and that makes it fair game for a reference book whose purpose is to cover all onscreen TOS-related productions -- cover them, catalog them, not make value judgments about how or whether they fit together. Any argument about how the movie fits together with prior works of fiction involving the same characters is irrelevant to the topic of this particular thread.

 

[Therin of Andor]

The new movie, like it or not, includes TOS elements and a TOS cast member, and that makes it fair game for a reference book whose purpose is to cover all onscreen TOS-related productions -- cover them, catalog them, not make value judgments about how or whether they fit together.

Definitely.

The quotes of dialogue from TAS ("Yesteryear") included in the new film is another important link for any new edition of the "ST Concordance".

 

[Captain Robert April]

This will make for an interesting exercise in cataloging...