"Planet of the Titans" Revisited

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Over at Sci-Fi meshes a fella is putting together his version of the Ken Adams Enterprise design:
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/3d-wips/47033-enterprise-phase-ii-prototype.html

 

[Maurice]

Over at Sci-Fi meshes a fella is putting together his version of the Ken Adams Enterprise design:

Yeah, but you can't see anything without an account.

Anyway, that 3D model (while nice work) is just a very loose takeoff on the Titans concept, and doesn't follow either Adam nor McQuarrie's drawings in any real way, although it leans towards the McQuarrie ultra-wide version more than any of Adam's sketches, which tend to lean towards the faster looking high-nacelled idea here (excuse the fuzziness):

 

[Saul]

Thanks very much guys for these very interesting pictures. Love the bridge design. The wasted space reminds me of something from Star Wars.

 

[Christopher]

Come to think of it, there is a certain logic to a ship design with that much empty space. If the ship is hulled by meteoroids, or by enemy fire, then the more empty space you have, the lower the probability of a populated section being hit. In space, with no air resistance to worry about, there's no cost to having the ship's volume be larger than it has to.

Of course, the empty space would then have to be in vacuum, so that the heat and shock of the impact would not be transmitted to populated sections, and so that no air would be lost from the hull penetration. And that's definitely not what we're seeing in that Adam sketch. Also, it's a moot point when you have magic deflector shields that function as hull armor.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Come to think of it, there is a certain logic to a ship design with that much empty space. If the ship is hulled by meteoroids, or by enemy fire, then the more empty space you have, the lower the probability of a populated section being hit. In space, with no air resistance to worry about, there's no cost to having the ship's volume be larger than it has to.

Except for the increased mass penalty, which would be an issue if the impulse engines function as Newtonian rockets. A minimized exterior surface area would also provide statistical protection from natural hazards as well as presenting a smaller target to the enemy during combat.

TGT

 

[Christopher]

Except for the increased mass penalty, which would be an issue if the impulse engines function as Newtonian rockets.

There's no mass penalty, since it's the same mass spread out over a larger volume. If the space between inhabited sections is in vacuum, there's no extra mass of atmosphere. And the surrounding hull would be fairly thin and a minor contribution to the overall mass. If, indeed, there is a surrounding hull. An opened-up design like this might dispense with one, and look something like the ancient alien ship from TAS: "Beyond the Farthest Star," say.

A minimized exterior surface area would also provide statistical protection from natural hazards as well as presenting a smaller target to the enemy during combat.

Not if the interior is mostly empty space. As I said, in that case, the odds of a meteroid or projectile/missile striking an inhabited portion of the ship are lowered, and if the space is in vacuum, the damage isn't transmitted beyond the immediate points of impact. Such a projectile (or rather the expanding cloud of plasma resulting after it strikes the hull and vaporizes) would simply travel through the ship in a straight line and out the other side, and if there were no populated/pressurized sections in its path, it would only damage the hull and maybe a few support bulkheads.

This was a basic part of the combat protocols they used on Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda, according to the online discussions of the show's producers and the JPL propulsion engineer who was their scientific adviser, although it didn't come out well in the show itself. Since GRA was (originally) a hard-SF universe in which fields of force couldn't magically function like armor, there was simply no reliable way to deflect kinetic warheads incoming at relativistic speeds, not if they had thrusters that could correct against a repulsive force. Anything that hit the ship would pass straight through and out the other side. So the only defense was statistical: distribute the crew throughout the enormous volume of the ship, dump the atmosphere from every unoccupied section into space, and hope that most of the crew survived.

 

[siskokid888]

I almost wept upon reading Kaufman's statement about wanting to take ST movies in an adult direction that dealt with big questions and wonders and sexuality, because that's what ST was supposed to be all along. I regret that the studio forced TMP to be G-rated and that the sequels ended up being more in the lowbrow action-adventure vein. I would've loved to instead have an ST film franchise that was acclaimed for its sophisticated, thought-provoking, adult-oriented storytelling.

Man, I hear you on that, Chris. TMP, for all it's flaws, was at least trying to move in that direction. But the studio then went with Meyer and Bennet's cartoonization of Trek and rest, as they say, is the sad history. At least of the film part of the franchise.

 

[Axiom1]

Some fascinating production design sketches for POTT. IMHO 'Planet of the Titans' would have been a superior film to what STTMP was thematically and stylistically. I still like STTMP for many reasons, if not for the over use of cloud shots and the similarity to TOS 'The Changeling' episode.

In reference to Shigeta as Nogura, and Sulu, the fan film trailer 'STA: A Time to Heal' is finally online.

Register, log in, and follow the links section here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StarTrekAxiom/

 

[Penhall99]

I've always been interested in these "lost Trek" stories -- especially the development of the scripts that eventually became TMP.

A friend's father is Jerry Isenberg, who was assigned as the producer of Planet of The Titans and worked with GR and the writers during that period. I'm going to ask him if he still has a dusty script lying around somewhere... no promises though...

Hey, so I guess nothing ever panned out?

And you know, as much as I liiked TMP, I think this would have made a cool movie. I don't like the idea of Kirk disappearing for half the movie or the Enterprise redesign (although it is interesting and kinda cool) but at least it isn't a retread of a TV episode. And it seems like it would have had a cinematic scope and feel to it, without resorting to the usual "Earth is gonna be destroyed" thing.

I hope a screenplay surfaces someday, because I'd love to give it a read.

 

[Voyagerian]

Thanks for the sketches of Ralph's. I still have my 'Star Wars Sketchbooks' and the great preproduction paintings from SW and Empire. I recall the painting of the proposed Enterprise and the asteroid base all the way back in an old Starlog I also still have. I did not know this Adam was in fact the one who is to be credited with the would-be 1701 design.Hmm. I did read about 'Planet OF the Titans' at wikipedia some time back, but had never heard of that project before.From the back, the craft above the moon or whatever in the Enterprise series intro kind of reminded me of that design....

 

[RobertScorpio]

I've always been interested in these "lost Trek" stories -- especially the development of the scripts that eventually became TMP.

A friend's father is Jerry Isenberg, who was assigned as the producer of Planet of The Titans and worked with GR and the writers during that period. I'm going to ask him if he still has a dusty script lying around somewhere... no promises though...

Hey, so I guess nothing ever panned out?

And you know, as much as I liiked TMP, I think this would have made a cool movie. I don't like the idea of Kirk disappearing for half the movie or the Enterprise redesign (although it is interesting and kinda cool) but at least it isn't a retread of a TV episode. And it seems like it would have had a cinematic scope and feel to it, without resorting to the usual "Earth is gonna be destroyed" thing.

I hope a screenplay surfaces someday, because I'd love to give it a read.

But wouldn't it have been a retread? Didn't Kirk meet Apollo/Adonis and didn't Adonis explain who and what the Roman/Greek Gods were?

Rob

 

[trevanian]

I've always been interested in these "lost Trek" stories -- especially the development of the scripts that eventually became TMP.

A friend's father is Jerry Isenberg, who was assigned as the producer of Planet of The Titans and worked with GR and the writers during that period. I'm going to ask him if he still has a dusty script lying around somewhere... no promises though...

Hey, so I guess nothing ever panned out?

And you know, as much as I liiked TMP, I think this would have made a cool movie. I don't like the idea of Kirk disappearing for half the movie or the Enterprise redesign (although it is interesting and kinda cool) but at least it isn't a retread of a TV episode. And it seems like it would have had a cinematic scope and feel to it, without resorting to the usual "Earth is gonna be destroyed" thing.

I hope a screenplay surfaces someday, because I'd love to give it a read.

But wouldn't it have been a retread? Didn't Kirk meet Apollo/Adonis and didn't Adonis explain who and what the Roman/Greek Gods were?

Rob

Are you may---beee confusing this with CLASH OF THE TITANS?

 

[Maurice]

...In reference to Shigeta as Nogura, and Sulu, the fan film trailer 'STA: A Time to Heal' is finally online.

Register, log in, and follow the links section here: <snip>

Tell me you didn't re-animate this long dead thread just to again plug the trailer for this thing. Interesting as it might be, it's got nothing to do with "Planet of the Titans".

But wouldn't it have been a retread? Didn't Kirk meet Apollo/Adonis and didn't Adonis explain who and what the Roman/Greek Gods were?

Are you may---beee confusing this with CLASH OF THE TITANS?

I think Robert means that as "Planet of the Titans" would have ended with the idea that Kirk and Company were the titans of old, and as the Titans were the fathers of the Greek Gods, wouldn't that make for a discontinuity with how said Greek gods were depicted in "Who Mourns for Adonais?"

If I am reading that correctly.

 

[RobertScorpio]

...In reference to Shigeta as Nogura, and Sulu, the fan film trailer 'STA: A Time to Heal' is finally online.

Register, log in, and follow the links section here: <snip>

Tell me you didn't re-animate this long dead thread just to again plug the trailer for this thing. Interesting as it might be, it's got nothing to do with "Planet of the Titans".

But wouldn't it have been a retread? Didn't Kirk meet Apollo/Adonis and didn't Adonis explain who and what the Roman/Greek Gods were?

Are you may---beee confusing this with CLASH OF THE TITANS?

I think Robert means that as "Planet of the Titans" would have ended with the idea that Kirk and Company were the titans of old, and as the Titans were the fathers of the Greek Gods, wouldn't that make for a discontinuity with how said Greek gods were depicted in "Who Mourns for Adonais?"

If I am reading that correctly.

Yes...exactly..wouldn't that trump Adonis?

Rob

 

[trevanian]

...In reference to Shigeta as Nogura, and Sulu, the fan film trailer 'STA: A Time to Heal' is finally online.

Register, log in, and follow the links section here: <snip>

Tell me you didn't re-animate this long dead thread just to again plug the trailer for this thing. Interesting as it might be, it's got nothing to do with "Planet of the Titans".

Are you may---beee confusing this with CLASH OF THE TITANS?

I think Robert means that as "Planet of the Titans" would have ended with the idea that Kirk and Company were the titans of old, and as the Titans were the fathers of the Greek Gods, wouldn't that make for a discontinuity with how said Greek gods were depicted in "Who Mourns for Adonais?"

If I am reading that correctly.

Yes...exactly..wouldn't that trump Adonis?

Rob

I never got that impression, though I certainly can't dispute it.
I thought the titans reference was a generic one, relating to some race that had been detected as an early force on Earth only in Kirk's time. But given what you folks say, it sounds more plausible with the titan/apollo business. And it is in keeping with Kaufmann's stated interest in mythology. He wanted to work in a lot of Stapledon SF as well. Kind of makes me wonder if Stapledon used titans.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I think the big problem with this story would be, what do you do for a sequel?

 

[trevanian]

Do another stand-alone movie in the same universe. I think they could have used TITANS as the reboot film, and if they wanted to hold Kirk & co back for more pics, they could have done this with April's crew. Intro the ST universe anew, instead of tearing the ST universe down to create this diluted and dumbassed, piss-ant mix of STARSHIP TROOPERS and LucasLand.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Do another stand-alone movie in the same universe. I think they could have used TITANS as the reboot film, and if they wanted to hold Kirk & co back for more pics, they could have done this with April's crew. Intro the ST universe anew, instead of tearing the ST universe down to create this diluted and dumbassed, piss-ant mix of STARSHIP TROOPERS and LucasLand.

...which made lots of money and attracted a younger crowd like my daughter. JJ did exactly what was needed to insure TREK's survival..and, IMO, he succeeded and i cant' wait for more...

HAVING said that, I can understand those who don't like this version of TREK jj is telling...so we just have to agree to disagree

Rob

 

[Axiom1]

Tell me you didn't re-animate this long dead thread just to again plug the trailer for this thing. Interesting as it might be, it's got nothing to do with "Planet of the Titans".

Your slightly acrimonious comment is interesting, and a little perplexing, considering I've been interested in POTT long before 'your thread' existed. Not to mention ATTH was referenced by others in 'your thread' several times prior to my post. A post which if you read, mentioned a little more than a 'plug' for said ATTH trailer.

Possibly the fact ATTH was referenced here to begin with might have something to do with its relevance to POTT?

Threads topics do tend to slightly swerve somewhat on forums, so don't let that get you too perturbed my friend.

I imagine Data Holmes might agree with that deduction.

I am so loving this thread. I love all the "treks not taken" stuff. Great job DS9Sega!

James Shigeta was going to play Nogura if the Phase II series had progressed.

Where did you hear this? I know Shigeta played Nogura in a fan film called Yorktown II back in the late '80s or so; Starlog covered it, since it was apparently a pretty prominent fan film with involvement from many professionals including George Takei (with the filmmaker playing Sulu's son), Andrew Probert (who designed a Klingon scout ship for it), and composer Bill Conti. But I don't remember anything about Shigeta being slated for Phase II.

I so wish this would make it's way onto the internet already!!!

I suppose we should thank the power of the galactic internet. Who woulda thunk?

HAVING said that, I can understand those who don't like this version of TREK jj

There are actually a few discontented fans out there. Yet not enough to make any great changes. However, if there can be two Hulk films that aren't sequels...why not another version of Trek? I'd certainly be game

Realistically it won't happen, though one never knows…

I'm still waiting for EON to switch Bonds, bring back Ken Adam, John Barry, and get the rest of the production mix right...but thats another story for another forum.

 

[trevanian]

Do another stand-alone movie in the same universe. I think they could have used TITANS as the reboot film, and if they wanted to hold Kirk & co back for more pics, they could have done this with April's crew. Intro the ST universe anew, instead of tearing the ST universe down to create this diluted and dumbassed, piss-ant mix of STARSHIP TROOPERS and LucasLand.

...which made lots of money and attracted a younger crowd like my daughter. JJ did exactly what was needed to insure TREK's survival..and, IMO, he succeeded and i cant' wait for more...

HAVING said that, I can understand those who don't like this version of TREK jj is telling...so we just have to agree to disagree

Rob

If that is the price of survival ... well, the best way I can explain my point of view is that I'd've rather had no Bond movies between THUNDERBALL and THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS than suffer through all those Moore pics.