"...the men from Vulcan treat their women strangely."
- Thread starter Tribbles
- Start date
Well, I'm sure the females do. In "A Mirror Darkly" Trip mentioned T'Pol's last Pon Farf, so I am willing to bet females get it, too.
That it is. In "The Search for Spock," Saavik and Spock start thier Pon Farr mating with a similiar finger holding ritual. And it was hot!
Yeah, I know, I'm demented and pathetic for thinking that scene was hot, but there it is.
I think they do because it would only make sense IMO, but in TSFS Saavik says that "Vulcan males" undergo Pon Farr and mentions nothing about females; it was only in ENT that they clearly established that females undergo Pon Farr. I remember I had a big debate with someone at Youtube over some Trek expanded universe "documentary" about Pon Farr (produced before ENT, I suppose) that described it as something that Vulcan males undergo; I argued that TSFS interpretation, which I dislike anyway, can be easily explained away as Saavik choosing not to talk about female Pon Farr to David Marcus (Vulcans don't really like talking about PF except when they really must), if reconciling it all in canon is that important.
I didn't find that scene sexy, but Spock and the Romulan Commander finger-touching in The Enterprise Incident was really HOT.
If you can squint your eyes enough not to see any wrinkles in it, my pet theory to fit almost everything into one explanation is that Vulcan males undergo the 7 years cycle (TOS), while Vulcan females experience pon farr when triggered by contact with a male suffering the condition (VOY), or when exposed to intense stress or some other events (ENT). It helps that it doesn't involve the males and females having to adjust their "timing".
That works well enough.
Sarek said that under extreme circumstances--he knew he had to be as human could be for Spock, who had no one to turn to with his emotional turmoil. Sarek was strong enough to put Vulcan decorum aside. (Also, his grief was no doubt just as strong as his son's--admitting his love for his dead wife was anologous to Spock almost killing Kirk.) He'd never have admitted it otherwise--he did not earlier in the film and he did not in JtB.
Sarek is not one who is prone to lying. If Sarek says he loved Amanda, I'm inclined to believe him. Vulcans do love - we've all seen it. Amanda would never have married Sarek if they didn't. Sarek was not "being human" when he said these things, he was being truthful.
That's not what Brutal is saying. He's saying that only in extreme circumstances would Sarek ever admit to loving Amanda. Which is of course the truth.
Under normal circumstances he'd say exactly what he chose to say earlier in the film - that he married her because it was logical. Which is doubtless also the truth from a certain Obi-Wan prevarication sort of thing - I suspect it was the logical choice because he loved her.
Even if he was talking *to* Amanda? I find that hard to believe. Amanda, being a human, would need more of a sign that Sarek loved her. If he could not tell her, then why would she marry him?
In public, anyway. I would hope that when they were alone, they didn't need to be that restrained.
Yeah, I know, but my point is I figured there was like this deep, unspoken bond between them. That's how I'd seen the relationship for years, anyway, and that was just the impression I gleaned (or imposed on) "Journey to Babel".
Amanda doesn't even need to hear Sarek say it, I'd wildly guess, she already knows. He's probably shown her the depth of that affection without ever saying a word or straining his face past an eyebrow. Or so I'd guess it to be.
Amanda doesn't even need to hear Sarek say it, I'd wildly guess, she already knows. He's probably shown her the depth of that affection without ever saying a word or straining his face past an eyebrow. Or so I'd guess it to be.
Good enough for me, and brings to mind something from Jean Lorrah's Vulcan Academy Murders (not canon, but anyway):Which is doubtless also the truth from a certain Obi-Wan prevarication sort of thing - I suspect it was the logical choice because he loved her.
In that book, Spock hears Sarek call Amanda "beloved" after Amanda has just survived an attempt on her life. Spock raises his eyebrow at this, of course, after which Sarek explains that he was just calling her by the literal translation of her name.
In fairness, this seemed like normal expression of intimacy and foreplay practice for Vulcans. Spock doesn't french the Rommy commander, for example, who would be under no social obligation to limit intimate contact, especially in private. And Frankenspock doesn't play tonsil hockey with Saavik. I think it's one of the neater touches TOS and (iirc) Nimoy himself put on Vulcans, is that they don't kiss--which, after all, is pretty much a uniquely human endeavor even on Earth.
What Amanda gets out of it is questionable. Plus, I sort of suspect kissing a Vulcan would be like making out with sandpaper.
...An experience an inhabitant of the cold and occasionally dry north like me is intimately familiar with.
But Vulcans rubbing their fingers is exactly what one would expect of the species. Not out in the public, though, but behind locked doors and shuttered windows. It's not "acting restrained" - it's putting their telepathically most sensitive organs in close contact and then jiggling! Were Vulcan not such an easygoing place, couples doing that in public would probably face severe charges...
Then again, modesty subroutines are bugs, not features, as any advanced and logical being would agree.
Timo Saloniemi
But Vulcans rubbing their fingers is exactly what one would expect of the species. Not out in the public, though, but behind locked doors and shuttered windows. It's not "acting restrained" - it's putting their telepathically most sensitive organs in close contact and then jiggling! Were Vulcan not such an easygoing place, couples doing that in public would probably face severe charges...
Then again, modesty subroutines are bugs, not features, as any advanced and logical being would agree.
Timo Saloniemi
They are bonded so she knows what he think of her.
^ I suppose that's right. As long as one of the partners is Vulcan, the (telepathic) bond will work. Sarek/Amanda, Trip/T'Pol, etc. So they will always sense the affection even if it's not expressed.
That's not what Brutal is saying. He's saying that only in extreme circumstances would Sarek ever admit to loving Amanda. Which is of course the truth.
Under normal circumstances he'd say exactly what he chose to say earlier in the film - that he married her because it was logical. Which is doubtless also the truth from a certain Obi-Wan prevarication sort of thing - I suspect it was the logical choice because he loved her.
Exactly. I'll go one step further--in the same episode that brought this thread about, Spock tells Jim that he's ashamed for feeling friendship for him. He also says he never told his mother that he loved her. Thing is, as Nimoy and Quinto both play the character, he shows her that he loves her all the time, mostly through the stiff resolve required not to show it, if that makes any sense. I figure the same is true with Sarek--he never says "I love you." That is not the Vulcan way. But through his treatment of Amanda, she never doubts it for a second. I like this because it makes what Sarek does for Spock in Star Trek XI that much more poignant--for his son, Sarek is willing to cast aside Vulcan taboos and be truly emotionally intimate. When Sarek tells Spock he loved Amanda, he's showing Spock he loves him, too.
Incidentally, this helps me grasp Amanda's character in JtB that much more--after decades of submitting to the Vulcan way, she finally balks when it means that Spock is willing to let Sarek die rather than shirk his duty as first officer of the Enterprise. So she hauls off and lets Spock have it, no doubt with a lifetime's worth of very human frustration at both of the Vulcans she's fated to love.
This thread, btw, is testament tow why "The Naked Time" is a true TOS masterpiece.
