How many people here feels lonely alot!

[Amaris]

I feel lonely all the time. It eats away at me. It hurts especially since I don't know what to do about it (I don't know where to go to meet people).

The only time I don't feel lonely is when I'm with a large group of people doing sports related chanting activities. I think you can guess what I mean here.

You make a point here.
I live in a teeny, tiny town, where there is nothing to do, no real hotspots. How do you meet people in a place like that?
You see, most of the people here find their high school sweetheart and get married by the time they're 21 or 22. People like me, (I'm 29), are generally unable to find singles in this area, or anywhere around this area. The nearest place that actually has a real, live social scene is Cincinnati and that's a bit of a trip.

J.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Have you tried CBT? I've heard it can be very effective. It is apparently more self-help oriented, and doesn't rely on you paying for a "talking cure" for years on end.

My wife suffers from dissociative seizures--that is, seizures which are psychological rather than neurological in origin. Her therapist suggested CBT, and gave her a bunch of binders full of material on how to do it. She helped my wife get started and my wife took it from there.

The therapist was kinda pissed when she stopped going, actually. She hasn't had a dissociative seizure in a couple years now. She still has epileptic ones under certain circumstances (such as pregnancy), but those are controlled with medication.

The therapist wanted my wife to keep going, though, so they could focus on digging up her past. My wife has no interest in doing that. Her attitude is similar to PKTrekGirl's on that subject. She acknowledges what happened to her, she knows it sucks, she knows it was inappropriate and evil, and she just wants to move on with her life.

So, the verdict on CBT is: very yes. Talk therapy: eh, not so much, if it's not helping.

 

[Kestra]

^ Well, I don't know who you have to screw to get a good therapist in this town. In the past 15 years, I've been to at least 4 of them, and it was the same thing with each. Rooting around in stuff I'm just trying to forget, and making me upset all over again.

I don't CARE about the past. It's over, and it can't be changed, so why dwell on it? I want just ONE of these guys to talk about my future, and how I can improve it. That is what I am interested in.

But none of them ever have. And believe me - even WITH insurance, I have given these guys THOUSANDS of dollars of my hard-earned money - I mean, we are talking well into 5 figures. To no avail.

It actually makes me angry now, to think about how much money I have flushed down the toilet in the interests of the mental health industry.

Maybe there are good ones out there...but there is no way of knowing that until you have doled out a couple of thousand dollars and talked to them for a while. And by the time you figure out that you have yet another useless therapist on the line, you are so far down the road with them, talking about all the flotsam & jetsam of your life that you are ill equipped to start all over again with someone else.

And I am so discouraged now, with these quacks, that I simply gave up trying.

I am WAY tired of flushing my hard earned money down the crapper, only to feel WORSE than when I started.

I'm really sorry to hear this. It's actually one of the reasons I want to go into the field, I think. Every professional I've spoken to, both psychiatrists and psychologists, have said that there's really a need for more good therapists.

And on my part, it bothers me to think of people with mental health issues struggling with this. It's difficult enough to identify your issues, to get over the stigma of mental health problems, and to seek help for them. And if you make it to a professional and are disappointed there, it can make a person lose faith in the system so easily. It's important for the client to make as much effort as the therapist, and of course sometimes it's just not a right fit, but I dunno, bothers me to think of people getting discouraged like that.

In my own experience, I happen to love the therapist that I randomly picked. He directs the conversation but asks me to identify things that I want to improve, he's given me tools to help that, he points out patterns in my thoughts and behavior, and beyond everything else, he's a wonderful support system. I think it'll take me awhile to get to where I want to be, but I feel that I have been lucky to have gotten a good therapist.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

Have you tried CBT? I've heard it can be very effective. It is apparently more self-help oriented, and doesn't rely on you paying for a "talking cure" for years on end.

That is EXACTLY what the 'good therapist' did for our family member. And it helped tremendously. The first therapist did what you are talking about PKTREKGIRL, and it went south......as far south as a person can go.

Thanks AN Officer for reminding me what it was called.

 

[Kira Nerys]

I feel lonely I have more online contacts than real ones.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

I feel lonely I have more online contacts than real ones.

I certainly do.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Have you tried CBT? I've heard it can be very effective. It is apparently more self-help oriented, and doesn't rely on you paying for a "talking cure" for years on end.

My wife suffers from dissociative seizures--that is, seizures which are psychological rather than neurological in origin. Her therapist suggested CBT, and gave her a bunch of binders full of material on how to do it. She helped my wife get started and my wife took it from there.

The therapist was kinda pissed when she stopped going, actually. She hasn't had a dissociative seizure in a couple years now. She still has epileptic ones under certain circumstances (such as pregnancy), but those are controlled with medication.

The therapist wanted my wife to keep going, though, so they could focus on digging up her past. My wife has no interest in doing that. Her attitude is similar to PKTrekGirl's on that subject. She acknowledges what happened to her, she knows it sucks, she knows it was inappropriate and evil, and she just wants to move on with her life.

So, the verdict on CBT is: very yes. Talk therapy: eh, not so much, if it's not helping.

Yes. I have heard of CBT - in fact, it was Digits who told me about that several years ago when I asked for his advice about this - and I actually tried to find a therapist who did that who would take my insurance.

No luck. I mean, in all of Atlanta - NO luck.

There are therapists who practice it - but none of them that I could identify would take my insurance (Blue Cross/Blue Shield) - and I made about 50 phone calls (even after my insurance people could not find one in their directory of approved providers). And these guys are expensive - upwards of $180 per 50-min hour, and I just can't afford that once a week without help from my insurance.

That was exactly why I made the comment earlier in this thread about my theory that they give the people with insurance the crappy counselors, and save the good ones for the rich folks who can afford to pay full fees. The experience of trying to find someone who practiced CBT AND who would take my insurance was the very thing that caused me to postulate that theory.

I guess the deal is that CBT works - and if it works, people who can afford it will go and pay cash if they have to. And then the therapists who practice it think to themselves "Why hassle with the insurance companies and all of their bullshit paperwork, if I can keep my calendar chock full of wealthy patients who can pay me in cash?"

That is what I think has happened in Atlanta. My working theory, anyway. Because all of these guys who practice CBT want cash on the barrel head.... They are not even INTERESTED in talking about insurance. And no breaks for people who just can't afford to pay those steep prices.

I guess the middle class has to mortgage their very SOULS, just to get a little frakkin' HELP.

I can afford about $50 per week + insurance...but especially since the economy has started to slide (in my case, no raise in 3 years, but prices going higher and higher all the time) it would be impossible for me to pay $180 per week and still pay my mortgage, utilities, gasoline, and grocery bill. I have no husband...so all the expenses of this house have to be paid by me alone....and it would just be impossible to carve out that kind of cash.

 

[An Officer]

Since it is a self-help based technique, why not hit the books yourself and see where you get with it?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss...ripbooks&field-keywords=cbt+books&sprefix=CBT

 

[Holdfast]

I'd go in there every week in a reasonably good mood...and come out an hour later so depressed and upset that it would take me the next 2 days to climb out of the hole 'talking about it' put me into.

That would be okay if these guys had given me any ideas whatever about how I could fix my 'issues' (which mostly had to do with my mother) or move past them....

But I'd give anything to be 'fixed'...if that's even possible.

Talking generally, using your post merely as a jumping-off point for general discussion, rather than specifically discussing your case...

... I suspect many therapists would view a desire to be "fixed" and to "be given ideas... about to fix issues" as something that needs exploration through the sessions rather than questions to be answered by the therapist. In fact, therapists would likely go to great lengths to avoid directly replying to those queries with a brief answer and would instead ask what you meant.

Also, feeling worse after a session isn't unusual and in fact can be a positive, showing that one has started to encounter and break down potentially unhelpful defence mechanisms. It can often take months or longer to really get behind defence mechanisms and then begin the real work of therapy.

Of course, such work is not for everyone. At some level, the client must want to do this sort of work, and not all clients are ready/wanting to do it, or even needing it doing at a particular point in their life. If that's the case, a different psychotherapeutic model would be indicated, otherwise the process becomes empty. But sometimes, despite best efforts at initial assessment, one can only find out for sure by "sucking & seeing".

I personally found psychodynamic work to be far deeper, more rewarding and meaningful than CBT. CBT is more superficial, goal-oriented and, to be honest, duller to do. But it can certainly give clients a bigger toolbox to work with, it helps lots of people and it's cheaper to deliver. And it can also be a jumping off point for CAT or eventually other deeper work.

But all that may say more about my worldview than the therapies themselves. The efficacy of a psychotherapeutic modality is most correlated with the quality of the therapeutic alliance between client and therapist (although one can deliver elements of CBT through computer interfaces), so it's not surprising that therapists will naturally gravitate to modalities they personally enjoy delivering. I enjoyed the challenge of doing psychodynamic work much more than CBT; you get to explore some interesting concepts and you constantly have to think about what's going on in the room, helicoptering up and down in a way you don't have to with CBT.

*shrug* I don't use either therapy extensively, mind you, since I practice psychiatry rather than psychotherapy. But one inevitably uses elements of them in psychiatric practice, otherwise one would risk becoming horribly dependent on narrow pharmacological interventions without regard for a bigger, and more important, picture.

 

[Kestra]

I'd also recommend this book to anyone suffering from depression. It looks super cheesy but a lot of people actually do find it useful. It deals with cognitive therapy techniques.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

I'd recommend starting a fight club, but I'm not supposed to talk about that.

I find all this CBT (cock and ball torture) talk quite amusing though. (HUMOUR IS MY DEFENZE MECHANIZM)

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I'd go in there every week in a reasonably good mood...and come out an hour later so depressed and upset that it would take me the next 2 days to climb out of the hole 'talking about it' put me into.

That would be okay if these guys had given me any ideas whatever about how I could fix my 'issues' (which mostly had to do with my mother) or move past them....

But I'd give anything to be 'fixed'...if that's even possible.

Talking generally, using your post merely as a jumping-off point for general discussion, rather than specifically discussing your case...

... I suspect many therapists would view a desire to be "fixed" and to "be given ideas... about to fix issues" as something that needs exploration through the sessions rather than questions to be answered by the therapist. In fact, therapists would likely go to great lengths to avoid directly replying to those queries with a brief answer and would instead ask what you meant.

Also, feeling worse after a session isn't unusual and in fact can be a positive, showing that one has started to encounter and break down potentially unhelpful defence mechanisms. It can often take months or longer to really get behind defence mechanisms and then begin the real work of therapy.

Of course, such work is not for everyone. At some level, the client must want to do this sort of work, and not all clients are ready/wanting to do it, or even needing it doing at a particular point in their life. If that's the case, a different psychotherapeutic model would be indicated, otherwise the process becomes empty. But sometimes, despite best efforts at initial assessment, one can only find out for sure by "sucking & seeing".

I personally found psychodynamic work to be far deeper, more rewarding and meaningful than CBT. CBT is more superficial, goal-oriented and, to be honest, duller to do. But it can certainly give clients a bigger toolbox to work with, it helps lots of people and it's cheaper to deliver. And it can also be a jumping off point for CAT or eventually other deeper work.

But all that may say more about my worldview than the therapies themselves. The efficacy of a psychotherapeutic modality is most correlated with the quality of the therapeutic alliance between client and therapist (although one can deliver elements of CBT through computer interfaces), so it's not surprising that therapists will naturally gravitate to modalities they personally enjoy delivering. I enjoyed the challenge of doing psychodynamic work much more than CBT; you get to explore some interesting concepts and you constantly have to think about what's going on in the room, helicoptering up and down in a way you don't have to with CBT.

*shrug* I don't use either therapy extensively, mind you, since I practice psychiatry rather than psychotherapy. But one inevitably uses elements of them in psychiatric practice, otherwise one would risk becoming horribly dependent on narrow pharmacological interventions without regard for a bigger, and more important, picture.

Well, I can understand and appreciate why you guys would think CAT (whatever that is - I assume the 'talking about it' approach) would be more interesting for you. But with all due respect, I'm not paying for the therapist to have an 'interesting' time. I'm paying for someone to tell me what the hell is wrong with me, and help me on the road to fixing it so that I can, before I frakkin' DIE, have a few years of happiness in this life.

I know that sounds harsh...and forgive me for sounding so as it is not your fault. But looking at this from my perspective, at this point, I feel like I've been depressed and alone my entire life, and despite spending some serious money (as well as time and emotional energy) to TRY and get myself sorted, it hasn't paid off.

And frankly, time is running out.

We only have one life...and already I've spent more than half a lifetime being miserable. I don't want to spend what time I have left being miserable, and so I want someone to just stop the bullshit noise and chatter and tell me what the hell I can DO.

Because I have no frakkin' clue.

I get it. My mother is a narcissistic personality type who doesn't have the ability to care about anyone or anything, except in terms of how it effects HER. I get it, and I have internalized it. She is not gonna give me what I need from a mother, and never will - she doesn't have the bits and pieces within her that would allow her to love...or even show a minimal amount of support in any way for anyone other than herself.

Fine. But I'm over it. Past it. What's done is done.

And it sure as hell does not explain to me the fact that I have been unsuccessful in finding ANY love at all in this life.

What is easy for everyone else - to just fine a LITTLE love in this life, has been an impossible task for me. I'm smart, I'm a hard worker, I'm a good conversationalist, I have a good sense of humor, I am not a financial burden on anyone. I am in good health, I practice good hygiene, I'm not deformed, I don't have any bizarre personality ticks, I am pretty easy to live with, and am capable of holding down a job. I'm well-read, well-traveled, and fairly cultured. I'm no beauty, mind you...but I don't think I'm outright ugly either. And besides, I've seen plenty of pretty doggone homely people find someone.

And yet....I can honestly say that I have NEVER in this entire life felt like ANYONE has ever loved me. Used me? Yes. Oh MY, how they have used me!!! Man, do I have some stories to tell there!

But loved me? NEVER.

And I want to know what the fuck is up with that....and how I can fix it. Because it's gotta be me - not all of them.

Maybe it's just the accountant in me or something...but I want to believe that every problem has a solution...and that if you invest enough in something - money, time, emotional energy - whatever...that one day it will pay off.

But so far, I've sunk a hell of alot of all of those resources into this issue, and I am in no better position than when I started. Except for the fact that I no longer try to please my mother and attempt to get her to love me.

$30,000 later (at least, over the past 30 years)....and all I have to show is the fact that I no longer give a shit what my 84-year old mother wants or thinks. Whoopee!

If it wasn't so depressing to think about, it would be comical.

Man...I really didn't mean to go into this in this thread. But wow - now I am really angry. Not at you, Holdfast - not at you. But at this whole situation.

 

[archeryguy1701]

I was really lonely last year. It was my first year where all of my really good college friends had gone away, and that was kinda tough for me. I made some really good friends along the way last year, but it never really seemed to help. This year, I'm in the same position- all of my really good friends went away at the end of the school year- but I'm not as bad this time. I'm not sure what the difference is, but I'm not as bothered by being "on my own" as I was last year.

 

[ThankQ]

What's with everyone feeling lonely most of the time? Is it that hard?

Go to a diner and sit next to an old man who looks like he could use some conversation, Join a book club, do ANYTHING!

Okay guys, I've gotta tell ya this...

You don't find girlfriends by looking for one; girlfriends are accidents. I hear too much, "I want gf" or "I gotta find a gf," whatever. No, you need to find a DATE. Then, that one probably won't turn into a girlfreind. So you find another date, and another, and another, and before you know it there's some chick around a lot and always bitching about where you leave your socks.

Unless you're an elderly only-child whose every last friend has died, I don't see why anyone should be lonely. Sure, once in a great while, but as a perpetual condition? How is this possible?

 

[cardinal biggles]

The only time I don't feel lonely is when I'm with a large group of people doing sports related chanting activities. I think you can guess what I mean here.

Well, I suppose even Nebraska's baseball teams can have a chanting section in the stands.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The only time I don't feel lonely is when I'm with a large group of people doing sports related chanting activities. I think you can guess what I mean here.

Well, I suppose even Nebraska's baseball teams can have a chanting section in the stands.

Ha bloody ha.

alrighty then, see if you can guess which *three* current major leaguers are Huskers?

What's with everyone feeling lonely most of the time? Is it that hard?

Yes, it is. Finding a date is not easy. Not for me, anyway. I guess I just don't have the gift, not like that guy from the Dos Equis commercial.

 

[Kelthaz]

I often feel apart from most others and feel that I don't really have much in common with them. Very rarely do I encounter someone with whom I can openly express what I'm really thinking and feeling.

That's my problem exactly. I do have a few friends that I can hang out and do stuff with, but I really don't have much in common with them. Although I do have fun hanging out with them, it's also kinda boring and feels like something is missing.

My problem is that I don't really click with many people, so I need to find a far larger pool of people to find potential friends/girlfriends in. Joining a club or something is good advice, but I live in a pretty small town of around 70,000 people. There's not a lot of options here.

 

[Warped9]

I will say that I've learned mostly not to put unrealistic expectations upon others. I don't depend on others to help me feel better or to have a good time. I've learned to do things mostly for my own reasons.

If I like someone then I'll say so or express it in some way without expectation that the feeling will be returned in kind. If it is then great, but if not then I haven't really lost anything because I wasn't expecting anything in return anyway.

It doesn't mean that I don't get lonely--I most certainly do. I would dearly love to meet and connect with someone, but I'm not going to heap my hopes and expectations on someone else. I'll accept what they give me and see where and if it goes anywhere from there.

 

[An Officer]

What's with everyone feeling lonely most of the time? Is it that hard?

I guess so. Being lonely can become a strong habit just like smoking on something like that. It's something you've always done, so you continue to do it. I would imagine it takes a lot of will and effort to change the way you think and your general habits. It's so comforting to stick with what you've always done, even it only gives you what you've always gotten.

I would imagine even sitting down for a long chat with an old man in diner might be quite daunting if you're not in the habit of doing so. You would probably need to put in some step by step re-training of your habits to get to the stage where that would be second nature. It's terrible but we're all locked into habits of one kind or another, some of them beneficial, and others not so much.

 

[Holdfast]

But wow - now I am really angry. Not at you, Holdfast - not at you. But at this whole situation

Sure, I understand that, and I'm not taking it in any way as directed as me. Posting what I did in this thread kind of made me an avatar for the profession, and I did so with full awareness of what I was doing. I am sorry it roused so many emotions, though, so my apologies in that regard. Everything I wrote was generalised rather than personalised, because obviously it would be totally inappropriate for me to address any of the personal specifics.

Well, I can understand and appreciate why you guys would think CAT (whatever that is - I assume the 'talking about it' approach) would be more interesting for you. But with all due respect, I'm not paying for the therapist to have an 'interesting' time.

Well, the point I was making is that different therapists gravitate towards using the therapeutic approach they enjoy the most (which is generally also the one they find most valuable, in their experience, for their clients). Not all therapists are good at delivering all kinds of therapy (pretty understandable, if you think about it) and equally, not all clients are at the right stage of life for certain kinds of therapy (again, not rocket science), so some degree of mutual assessment process between client/therapist is usually needed at the start of therapy. Unfortunately for the client, this comes with a financial commitment too.

Anyway, I thought I'd add just a bit of terminology explanation of different talking therapies, prompted by your asking what CAT is, in somewhat simplified/abbreviated language:

Counselling - generally non-directive, designed to allow client to vent, problem-solve and feel supported. Generally practically-focused, with minimal delving into the past beyond what the client raises.

CBT - cognitive behavioural therapy, designed to explore negative thoughts and patterns ingrained in the client, about the world and break the automatic links between negative thoughts, feelings and actions. Very much focused on here-and-now practical approaches rather than examining the past

CAT - cognitive analytic therapy, starts off much the same as CBT, but towards the middle, shifts into a deeper gear, exploring how past experiences affected the development of the current negative cognitions

Brief Dynamic Therapy - typically 3-6 months of regular, predictable, boundaried sessions with a therapist skilled in helping a client examine how childhood experiences, past relationships and current coping strategies have linked themes and defences and helping a client find meaning and understanding from these past traumas.

Psychodynamic Psychotherapy - longer term regular sessions, again done in a predictable & boundaried format (same therapist, same room, same time, starting/finishing strictly, etc, etc), designed to allow a fuller exploration of unconscious defences, past traumas and present distress, designed to allow the client to identify the patterns and formative events that are responsible for their ongoing unhappiness or unhelpful ways of living. Trying to create conditions such that the ending of such a long-term therapy is healthy rather than destructive, whilst still acknowledging the remaining pain and dissatisfaction, is also usually important.

There are other talking therapies too (and some of the ones above are definitely "big tents" with a number of sub-modalities), but those are probably the biggies.

Hope that clarifies some of the language in my earlier post.