What do you hate about Trek?

[Mike Ram]

I generally hate the pushing the studio has done in the last 15 years or so to churn out new shows and movies with little of the care and thought that was put into the earlier ones. When I was growing up, there was only TNG and TOS, and a half dozen movies to keep track of. Now we've got all of DS9, Voyager and Enterprise, and 5 more movies. It's no surprise that as time went on, the writers ran out of (good) ideas and the shows started feeling less polished. For me, a lot of the emotion for Trek went away after DS9 ended. I still feel for the TNG crew whenever I catch a rerun on tv, but I never cared about any of the situations or people on Voyager (well, maybe the Doctor) or Enterprise.

The last season of TNG was rushed so they could make Generations and premiere Voyager on the UPN network. When Voyager ended, they immediately made Enterprise to capitalize on the buzz of the Star Wars prequels. I remember how excited I was when DS9 premiered, and how apathetic I was towards the latest offerings, which turned out to just be more of the same (only not as good). Enterprise in particular lacked the fun and color of TOS, which was a huge turn-off for me.

I'm glad there was a breather there for a few years, and for now it looks like there will only be movies coming out, which will generate a lot more excitement for the franchise.

 

[ALF]

Blahblahblahblah.

Show us, don't tell us. TV is a visual medium.

Granted, read my sig... I don't think there's a lot of bad about Trek compared to the rest of the TV landscape... from 1966 straight up to today.

 

[Traveller]

Voyager.
Enterprise.
(...)
(...)
Generations.
First Contact.
Insurrection.
Nemesis.
Made up particles and physical forces.
(...)
What they did to Dukat in season 7.
What they did to Sisko in season 7.
The concept of pah-wraiths, excluding "The Assignment."
Lack of continuity.
Lack of arc-based storytelling outside of DS9 and, concededly, Enterprise.
TNG-era Romulan makeup and costuming.
Thinking an explanation was required or desireable for the TNG-era change to Klingon makeup and costuming.
A Bob Jones graduate's understanding of evolutionary processes.
(...)
The logically unsupportable moral differentiation between weapons that can kill whole planets (photon torpedoes) and weapons that can kill whole planets (thalaron device, Genesis, etc.)
(...)
Ugly uniforms about half the time.
The doctor (TOS) or counselor (TNG) always standing around jawing on the bridge. Get back to work!
The early mangling of the Ferengi, from which a potentially interesting criticism of capitalism never recovered, and actually got much worse.
The use of forced manual labor as a shorthand for evil, regardless of how little sense it makes given the technology levels of our villains.
Extremely poor plotting and character motivations in some cases (TUC, ST11).
Speed of plot drive.
Risa.
Particle beam weapons that are much less effective than handguns or even a crossbow.
Stewart's increasing influence over the content and tone of the films.
Berman's hatred of music and interest.
Braga's bullshit.
Behr's contempt for the audience (see Dukat, season 7).
Honorary menton for Moore: the ending of Battlestar Galactica.
The "galactic barrier."

That's all I've got right now.

Ehm... yes. All of the above. Although, as I said, I'm not passionate enough about a TV show to hate it.

The only time I can remember being upset was when they destroyed Kurn's peronality on DS9, thinking they were being "noble" for not killing the body. They shouldn't have interfered with his ritual suicide thing.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I am disappointed when the writers don't fulfill my wishes, but I don't hate anything about Trek. It's entertainment, I enjoy it very much, it lets me escape from reality for an hour or two... but I'm not that passionate about it that I can obsess over red matter for weeks oder wish to do violence to Abrams (actually, I enjoyed his film much more than any of the TNG movies).

And I've never felt the need to defend my love for Trek. My hobby isn't anyone's business. I don't tell people what to do in their free time and I don't listen to those who try that on me.

Yeah, I don't think I'm capable of hating someone just because they wrote something I didn't like, although there are a couple of exceptions to that (non-writers who have written particularly troubling books, for example) and I'm certainly capable of having a strong dislike for an author based on my perceived quality of their work and even what I know of their personality (because that certainly does influence the work).

 

[JarodRussell]

Ehm... yes. All of the above. Although, as I said, I'm not passionate enough about a TV show to hate it.

And there's the most important thing everyone should realize. Hate is NOT the opposite of Love.

 

[The Castellan]

Optimistic future

That's a bad thing?


I always hated the more millitary take seen from ST2 onwards. Plus I hate the prime directive....I seen 'The Last Outpost' the other night, and Data said, "We have let some cultures die and let the strong conquer the weak." Great....at least we did not interfere with their development.

Plus killing Kirk was sucky.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Some of the fans.

 

[Fist McStrongpunch]

Optimistic future

That's a bad thing?

People's opinions differ. Better get used to it.

Yes, in my opinion, the "optimistic future" that so many TOS and TNG fans hold so dear is boring and pretty much guts all the stories of drama. Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

[STR]

^Optimistic futurism isn't the cause. It's the idea that humanity will somehow evolve beyond "petty" emotions like jealousy and revenge. It's a crock of humanist #### that should have never made it to television.

I don't care what year it is, or what parasite is inhabiting Riker, Troi would never EVER tell Crusher to go after him. Never. Never. Never. Never. NEVER.

On the other hand, it's a common conceit today that most people think themselves incapable of murder. I thoroughly enjoy Picard feeble attempts to explain away his murderous rage in First Contact. I love the character, but his conceit needed some deflation.

 

[number6]

The "fans."

 

[The Castellan]

Optimistic future

That's a bad thing?

People's opinions differ. Better get used to it.

Yes, in my opinion, the "optimistic future" that so many TOS and TNG fans hold so dear is boring and pretty much guts all the stories of drama. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Well, being the fact that most science fiction these days mostly depict a dark, gloomy future of humanity, as seen in Star Wars, Aliens, Logan's Run, and even Doctor Who, I LIKE seeing something optimistic. Hell, given the choice what future to live in, I'll take optimistic future any day.

 

[JarodRussell]

^Optimistic futurism isn't the cause. It's the idea that humanity will somehow evolve beyond "petty" emotions like jealousy and revenge. It's a crock of humanist #### that should have never made it to television.

LOL, so you don't think it would be nice to live in such a world, where humans are finally not killing each other over stupid shit.

 

[SFRabid]

Optimistic future

That's a bad thing?

People's opinions differ. Better get used to it.

Yes, in my opinion, the "optimistic future" that so many TOS and TNG fans hold so dear is boring and pretty much guts all the stories of drama. Your mileage may vary, of course.

So why are you even here? ... Really?

 

[SFRabid]

Right now, what I hate about Trek is a time when SciFi is going strong and shows like Heros and Merlin are on prime time networks there is no new ST series on TV.

 

[DevilEyes]

That's a bad thing?

People's opinions differ. Better get used to it.

Yes, in my opinion, the "optimistic future" that so many TOS and TNG fans hold so dear is boring and pretty much guts all the stories of drama. Your mileage may vary, of course.

So why are you even here? ... Really?

Meaning what? That this forum has no conflict or drama?

 

[SFRabid]

Meaning if he thinks all of the stories have been gutted of drama why does he bother to watch, much less hang out at a forum dedicated to such a boring franchise. I'm not saying "don't hang out here". My point is that there are good stories and plenty of drama despite the optomistic future of human mentality. There will always be outliers who are petty, plenty of races that cause conflict, and accidents and disasters to bring critical situations.

 

[DevilEyes]

Meaning if he thinks all of the stories have been gutted of drama why does he bother to watch, much less hang out at a forum dedicated to such a boring franchise. I'm not saying "don't hang out here". My point is that there are good stories and plenty of drama despite the optomistic future of human mentality. There will always be outliers who are petty, plenty of races that cause conflict, and accidents and disasters to bring critical situations.

That doesn't follow, since most often Trek shows and movies have hardly been devoid of "petty human emotions" or showed people as perfect. TOS didn't, TOS movies certainly didn't, DS9 didn't, ENT didn't, and even Picard clearly had feelings of revenge in FC.

It's perfectly possible for a person to enjoy many Trek shows, episodes and movies yet to despise the idea of the "perfect, evolved humans" without "petty emotions such as jealousy or revenge".

 

[SFRabid]

Meaning if he thinks all of the stories have been gutted of drama why does he bother to watch, much less hang out at a forum dedicated to such a boring franchise. I'm not saying "don't hang out here". My point is that there are good stories and plenty of drama despite the optomistic future of human mentality. There will always be outliers who are petty, plenty of races that cause conflict, and accidents and disasters to bring critical situations.

That doesn't follow, since most often Trek shows and movies have hardly been devoid of "petty human emotions" or showed people as perfect. TOS didn't, TOS movies certainly didn't, DS9 didn't, ENT didn't, and even Picard clearly had feelings of revenge in FC.

It's perfectly possible for a person to enjoy many Trek shows, episodes and movies yet to despise the idea of the "perfect, evolved humans" without "petty emotions such as jealousy or revenge".

Exactly. So if Star Trek is interesting and good it must not be boring and without drama. If it is not boring and without drama then either the optimistic future did not gut all the stories of drama or it is not about an optomistic future.

So the "Why are you here?" should be followed by "I like the series." The counter is "If you like the series then do you really think the optimistic future has made the series boring and guts all the stories of drama?"

 

[Misfit Toy]

Meaning if he thinks all of the stories have been gutted of drama why does he bother to watch, much less hang out at a forum dedicated to such a boring franchise. I'm not saying "don't hang out here". My point is that there are good stories and plenty of drama despite the optomistic future of human mentality. There will always be outliers who are petty, plenty of races that cause conflict, and accidents and disasters to bring critical situations.

That doesn't follow, since most often Trek shows and movies have hardly been devoid of "petty human emotions" or showed people as perfect. TOS didn't, TOS movies certainly didn't, DS9 didn't, ENT didn't, and even Picard clearly had feelings of revenge in FC.

It's perfectly possible for a person to enjoy many Trek shows, episodes and movies yet to despise the idea of the "perfect, evolved humans" without "petty emotions such as jealousy or revenge".

Exactly. So if Star Trek is interesting and good it must not be boring and without drama. If it is not boring and without drama then either the optimistic future did not gut all the stories of drama or it is not about an optomistic future.

So the "Why are you here?" should be followed by "I like the series." The counter is "If you like the series then do you really think the optimistic future has made the series boring and guts all the stories of drama?"

People come here to discuss the various incarnations of Trek. Discussion doesn't mean that everyone likes every aspect. Everyone is welcome to be here, provided they follow the rules of the board and post in a reasonable, adult manner.

Even if they want to discuss how they find the future represented by Trek to be boring and gutted of drama.

 

[SFRabid]

I'm all for discussion. That's what I'm trying to do. I think the statement "the "optimistic future" that so many TOS and TNG fans hold so dear is boring and pretty much guts all the stories of drama" is a good topic of discussion. The "optimistic future" is a basic concept that was pushed by GR. Can someone really enjoy Star Trek and hate the optimistic future concept? Was the poster just blowing off steam because of some previous statement by another forum member? Does the poster think Star Trek is ok but likes BSG much better? Is it just a few episodes or maybe a series that the poster does not like instead of ALL of the stories?

Or does discussion mean "state your own feelings but don't comment on those posted by anyone else?"