I don't quite like Abrams' attitude

[shadowedgalaxy]

Hey, there's a "Rick Berman's an asshole" thread.
I was watching one of the documentary thingies on the two-disc DVD, and J.J.'s always saying that Star Trek was "a geeky talkfest", and "Star Trek is classical music, while Star Wars is rock n' roll. Star Trek needed some of that", as well as "Empire Strikes Back had a fast pace. Star Trek needed that too."

Um... excuse me? Yes ESB has action scenes, but it's pretty slow-paced IMO.
Also, if Rick Berman said such things about THE TREK, he'd be dead.

Discuss.

 

[Tom Servo]

I must say that I disagree. Trek can be slow and preachy at times, and in a television format, one can have the show do that from time to time, in a movie, especially one like this, one where audiences must be blown away, the pace must be pumped up a little. I liked his ideas, keeping the characters and soul intact, but speeding up the pace, and changing up how this universe was filmed.

 

[StarTrek1701]

Some directors/makers get more leeway than others. Call it audience hypocrisy or what have you. Christopher Nolan changes completely on how Two-Face comes to be, creates a completely new character (Rachel Dawes) when there is a pile of other ones he could have picked for fan service, burns down the Wayne Mansion etc, and his "vision" is the best thing since sliced bread. Michael Bay creates a more realistic design for the robots in Transformers and he is branded a childhood rapist.

*shrug*

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

ST XII should dial it back a bit though. We've had the intro film, with the rock music and lens flares and "Why are you talking to me, man?" and all that. Time to grow up now, I think.

 

[ITL]

 

[Kegg]

"Star Trek is classical music, while Star Wars is rock n' roll. Star Trek needed some of that",

Truthfully, neither Star Wars or Star Trek are quite as rock'n'roll as Abrams' film, though (which is not necessarily a compliment).

The same applies to pace - Star Wars is rarely if ever as frenetic as Abrams' Trek... but on both points it's definitely a lot closer than Star Trek.

Also, if Rick Berman said such things about THE TREK, he'd be dead.

It also wouldn't make sense - aside from some forced attempts in the final series, Berman more or less stuck to the idea of Star Trek as classical music geeky talkfests.

 

[6079SmithW]

If I remember correctly, "The Cage" was criticized for being "too cerebral" and Roddenberry was forced to "dumb down" star trek some what to get a pass. I find this ironic as WNMHGB seemed just as cerebral as The Cage, but thats just my opinion. It seems that with Abram's version of star trek some people are saying the opposite, that it is dumbed down too much and has too much action and not enough intelligence. *shrugs* I guess before seeing XI I had already assumed that it was going to be a mindless summer action flick with the intent of drawing in the "mainstream" audience. I knew that the actors had all signed on for 3 films so I assumed that XI's mindless action was to hook these people and then do the serious stuff with the following films.

 

[shadowedgalaxy]

Another thing I dislike about Abrams is the smug aura that surrounds him. He reminds me a bit of Weyoun. But I guess that's normal for dem dere Hollywood types.








And he looks like Weyoun too.

 

[Mach5]

The main problem with previous Star Trek movies was that they didn't truly feel like movies, but rather like two-hour TV episodes. ST II, IV, VI & VIII were exceptions (for the most part) and that's why they were most successful.

But yes, I too would prefer if ST XII slowed it down a little. Making a smarter, more serious film wouldn't hurt either, but Abrams and Co. already said that they intend to do just that.

 

[6079SmithW]

This whole thing reminds me of BSG season 4.5 and RDM. Most people seemed to really enjoy the wrap up of the series and how things were resolved by Daybreak 2. A few people were outraged and claimed RDM had ruined the whole series with 4.5's explanations. They blamed him for ruining the whole show.
Similarly, most people seem to enjoy Star Trek XI with some disliking it and some carrying an extreme dislike while thinking that Abrams ruined star trek.
Interesting parallels.

 

[BolianAuthor]

Hey, there's a "Rick Berman's an asshole" thread.
I was watching one of the documentary thingies on the two-disc DVD, and J.J.'s always saying that Star Trek was "a geeky talkfest", and "Star Trek is classical music, while Star Wars is rock n' roll. Star Trek needed some of that", as well as "Empire Strikes Back had a fast pace. Star Trek needed that too."

Um... excuse me? Yes ESB has action scenes, but it's pretty slow-paced IMO.
Also, if Rick Berman said such things about THE TREK, he'd be dead.

Discuss.

I agree. The man has an all-out SW fetish, which is why he hired Ryan Church to work on the film. Thank God some of his concepts were dropped from the final film... in the art book, it shows that Sarek was originally going to have a speederbike... I shit you not... an actual frakking SW speederbike... ugh. And an early concept for the space drill was a total rip-off of a SW attack droid... ugh.

Trek is Trek... that's what makes it special, and why we love it. If we want SW, we'll watch a SW film.

This is what pisses me off so much about the fan reaction to this film... people embraced it just because it's shiny (literally) and new, and worship JJ like some great prophet, while at the same time, they now begin to put down Star Trek as being boring, stale, and so on, while it is Star Trek that they have loved so much all this time. It must have been real shitty being a Trekker then, huh? Just because this film may have been enjoyed by people doesn't mean that Trek as it was was lame or boring. If you people who love JJ so much hate the Treks that started it all, then just say so, and admit you never liked Trek in the first place. Otherwise, shut up. You can enjoy this new film, without putting down the Trek of the past.

 

[shadowedgalaxy]

This is what pisses me off so much about the fan reaction to this film... people embraced it just because it's shiny (literally) and new, and worship JJ like some great prophet, while at the same time, they now begin to put down Star Trek as being boring, stale, and so on, while it is Star Trek that they have loved so much all this time. It must have been real shitty being a Trekker then, huh? Just because this film may have been enjoyed by people doesn't mean that Trek as it was was lame or boring. If you people who love JJ so much hate the Treks that started it all, then just say so, and admit you never liked Trek in the first place. Otherwise, shut up. You can enjoy this new film, without putting down the Trek of the past.

Ya know, I liked this film, but I agree with everything you just said.

 

[Aragorn]

Using smugness to fight smugness. I see how it works.

 

[Shatmandu]

I don't have a problem with JJ Abrams, because his words don't impact my like or dislike of the movie or the franchise.

Joe, real

 

[Nick Ryder]

Well Sci-Fi has evolved past what TOS Trek set forth. With popular, successful sci-fi like Star Wars, Farscape, Babylon 5, Stargate, NuBSG, Firefly and the like, the audience needed something different. How quickly we forget how much people were praising nuBSG for being "Edgier" than Star Trek, faster paced, etc. And how why oh why couldn't Star Trek be like that!?

We got what we asked for. We got our flashier, sexier, edgier, riskier Star Trek. We got the more "realistic" language, sex and violence. We got our risk taking in blowing up Vulcan. We got our fan service by having Nimoy come in. We got exactly what we wanted. JJ gave us what many "fans" wanted. And I say fans in quotes because "some" wouldn't consider them the real "fans" but... they are the people who made Trek XI a hit. That saw it mulitple times, that got even grandmas and moms who never watched any modern Trek or other modern Sci-Fi to see it.

We got the movie we deserved.

 

[Mach5]

I agree. The man has an all-out SW fetish, which is why he hired Ryan Church to work on the film. Thank God some of his concepts were dropped from the final film... in the art book, it shows that Sarek was originally going to have a speederbike... I shit you not... an actual frakking SW speederbike... ugh. And an early concept for the space drill was a total rip-off of a SW attack droid... ugh.

Concept artists make dozens (even hundreds) of different concept drawings for just one particular thing (building, vehicle, weapon), because that is what they do for a living, present producers with options to choose from.

There were also many concepts that were sadly dropped for budget reasons, but which were absolutely amazing, like the engine room or Starfleet Academy building and assembly room interior.

The movie takes place in mid 23rd century, so wild, crazy architecture is, after all, expected. Just look at some of the buildings we have today, like Burj-Al-Arab, the Petronas towers or the Burj Dubai... IMO, the re-imagined Star Trek needed some of that Star Wars look.

 

[6079SmithW]

What NickRyder said.

 

[abaldwin360]

This is what pisses me off so much about the fan reaction to this film... people embraced it just because it's shiny (literally) and new, and worship JJ like some great prophet, while at the same time, they now begin to put down Star Trek as being boring, stale, and so on, while it is Star Trek that they have loved so much all this time. It must have been real shitty being a Trekker then, huh? Just because this film may have been enjoyed by people doesn't mean that Trek as it was was lame or boring. If you people who love JJ so much hate the Treks that started it all, then just say so, and admit you never liked Trek in the first place. Otherwise, shut up. You can enjoy this new film, without putting down the Trek of the past.

I consider myself a fan (mainly of the TV series) and only liked a few of the movies (TWOK, TVH, FC) it did suck to be a Trek fan for me before. I LOVE the new movie and while I'm not the biggest fan of the redesigned Enterprise the characters and pacing were spot on for me. I feel Star Trek had grown preachy and stuffy and the new movie was exactly the kick in the butt the franchise needed.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

This is what pisses me off so much about the fan reaction to this film... people embraced it just because it's shiny (literally) and new, and worship JJ like some great prophet, while at the same time, they now begin to put down Star Trek as being boring, stale, and so on, while it is Star Trek that they have loved so much all this time. It must have been real shitty being a Trekker then, huh? Just because this film may have been enjoyed by people doesn't mean that Trek as it was was lame or boring. If you people who love JJ so much hate the Treks that started it all, then just say so, and admit you never liked Trek in the first place. Otherwise, shut up. You can enjoy this new film, without putting down the Trek of the past.

Ya know, I liked this film, but I agree with everything you just said.

This is exactly where I stand. Abrams Star Trek is in no way an improvement over the the Star Trek I fell in love with. It is, however, a vast improvement over just about every iteration of Star Trek since 1982 (a few hours of TNG and much of DS9 have it beat, but just barely) and thus I welcome it as a diverting, somewhat juvenile entertainment (I've oft compared it to the Gold Key comics and Peter Pan story records of my youth) that I can enjoy with people who share Abrams' opinion of TOS (my nieces, for example, who enjoyed the movie when I showed it to them this past holiday).

In short, I disagree with Abrams but I loved his movie.

 

[bullethead]

I consider myself a fan (mainly of the TV series) and only liked a few of the movies (TWOK, TVH, FC) it did suck to be a Trek fan for me before. I LOVE the new movie and while I'm not the biggest fan of the redesigned Enterprise the characters and pacing were spot on for me. I feel Star Trek had grown preachy and stuffy and the new movie was exactly the kick in the butt the franchise needed.

I feel the same way. After seeing Insurrection in theaters and Voyager end its run, I kinda drifted away from Trek because it was getting a bit stale and totally ignored Nemesis and Enterprise until a few years later. STXI was the first Trek thing I felt excited about in a long time and it definitely delivered. Are there some things I don't like? Sure, but you get that with everything. Overall, while I think JJ Abrams's attitude maybe a bit too cavalier for my liking, I like what he's put out so far and I'm definitely interested in how he's going to continue the Trek story.