Is it okay for people to live together before getting married?

[Galactus]

iguana_tonante
Well I think we are getting the topic from the thread title, Is it okay for people to live together before getting married?

As for as being offensive, I can only say that some women are offended by things other women are not. I generally go by the 50/50 rule. I recently had a discussion with a group of women that were saying where are the men that are chivalrous and would take care of them. When I told them that a lot of women would find that attitude insulting, they could care less.

John Picard
I am from the Bible belt too, still there and I don't know anyone that thinks everyone should be married. If you are talking about having sex out of marriage and just living with someone, then yeah they will have a problem with that as well they should if the truly believe their religion.

Cicero
No one has ever said that someone has to base there beliefs on facts. Because for just about every issue there are opposing facts and experts. Most issues come down to personal beliefs. Abortion, gay marriage, war, President, UHC, pick one. How someone makes up their mind is a personal choice, and you don't have to agree with theirs anymore than they have to agree with yours.

 

[John Picard]

...... Someone tell me how long would you think you had to live with someone before you knew you wanted to marry them.

That varies, not just with each person, but each relationship that person has. It all depends on how well you and your partner can work things out.

Very true. I ignored all of the warning signs when I moved in with my ex-wife (her temper, laziness, being a control freak, her being a slob -- just a plain psycho) and ignorantly thought that it would all change when we got married. Boy, was I lying to myself.

In the relationship after that, I was very careful when some female friends warned me that the then-g/r was staking her territory by leaving a lot of personal items at my house, such as clothing, cooking utensils, etc. This woman was hell bent on us getting married after only knowing me for less than 10-weeks. We had a brief period of separation and then tried it again. We would spend the entire weekend together on the weekends I didn't have my son, which *somewhat* was akin to living together. It was a real eye opener and she would constantly drop HINTS that we should get married. The guilt started to kick in, but I started to apply reason and could foresee being miserable in 5 years down the road, and that was just for myself. I didn't want her tied down and be miserable as well, so I ended the relationship.

So yes, living together is akin to being married and it does give insight into the compatibility and potential issues that can make your later life a virtual hell.

John Picard
I am from the Bible belt too, still there and I don't know anyone that thinks everyone should be married. If you are talking about having sex out of marriage and just living with someone, then yeah they will have a problem with that as well they should if the truly believe their religion.

Don't play ignorant. You know I'm not talking sex out of marriage. The pressures on young men and women, in the Bible Belt (ages 18-24) to get married, are there. When family learns of a potential marriage they get all excited, rather than cautioning people that young against marriage or asking if the couple really understands what they're getting into.

 

[Praxius]

I don't know, by spending time together with them. Just because you are in the same house, sleeping together does not mean you are getting to know them.

Someone is going to need to explain exactly what you are learning that you would not learn by just spending time with them in general. How much time do you spend with the person you are dating? How much more time would you spend with them if you lived in the same place?

All of those questions in my view have already been clearly explained.

What has not been explained properly here is the flip side:

What else would you learn from your spouse after marriage that wouldn't already learn from moving in with them and/or sleeping with them before marriage?

What sort of mystical boundary exists that hides additional traits and factors of your partner in a marriage setting that doesn't exist in any other relationship?

No offense, but as I see it, the way you and a few others here are describing just how different your partner becomes after marriage seems to imply that your partner wasn't entirely honest in the begining of the relationship in regards to who they are and then changed after getting married..... not a good thing if you ask me and shows a lack of trust, or even a degree of deception. (Just a general view on how I read your statements, I'm not trying to take a stab at your relationship, just trying to understand what you're trying to say)

When my wife and I got married, nothing changed between us except that our relationship commitment is now long term and that we proclaimed to one another that this is the relationship we both want for a long time. Everything else so far is as though nothing else changed.

Oh wait..... there is another difference. Now I have to get used to saying "My Wife" rather then "My Girlfriend" and had to get used to the ring being on my finger...... but other then that, not much has changed.

 

[Praxius]

You learn what their idea of "clean" is and how far they're letting the place go before they decide to pick up. You learn what foods they like, what they keep around, and if they absolutely insist on something like fancy bread or skim milk over two percent. You learn where they spend their money and how. When money is tight, what gets cut first? What temperature do they like to keep the place? You learn how they spend their waking time--whether that's working, eating, playing videogames, inviting people over, etc. You learn what they're like when they sleep. Do they swipe all the covers? Do you go to bed at completely different times? Does someone snore or kick in their sleep? You learn what it's like to have an argument but then still sleep in the same bed together that night. You learn what it's like to spend every spare moment at home with someone, and who needs space when. You find out how the other person changes in big or small ways during times of stress, what seemingly insignificant things seem to set off a stress button, and how to deal with them. You learn that chores like cleaning the house or putting away laundry are suddenly so much better because of the person that's right there with you.

Agreed.... and while individually the things above can be trivial, Put them all together and if more of these things clash with your own lifestyle at "Home" then those that relate, then you may have a problem. It's best to figure these things out before making a very serious commitment like Marrying the person, esspecially if they're totally unwilling to budge on some of these differences.

 

[Galactus]

Don't play ignorant. You know I'm not talking sex out of marriage. The pressures on young men and women, in the Bible Belt (ages 18-24) to get married, are there. When family learns of a potential marriage they get all excited, rather than cautioning people that young against marriage or asking if the couple really understands what they're getting into.

i really don't know what you are talking about. I know mothers, aunts and sisters talk about getting married, but that is all over not just the Bible belt. I don't know about these pressures you speak of.

And what is this stuff about being too young to get married. Everyone that I know who has been married for a long time got married in their early twenties.

As someone here said before, I think a lot of problems is the people here and not relationships themselves.

 

[Praxius]

.... Very true. I ignored all of the warning signs when I moved in with my ex-wife (her temper, laziness, being a control freak, her being a slob -- just a plain psycho) and ignorantly thought that it would all change when we got married. Boy, was I lying to myself.

Sounds like my very first serious relationship, which lasted just shy of three years, ended up being stuck with her in an apartment lease for an additional year, thus had to deal with more of her drama and eventually one paticular situation above all others finally made me snap and I told her to either move out or I would move out..... and since I knew I could afford the place on my own and she knew she couldn't, it was obvious who was moving out.

But she was the same way, moody, lazy, a slob, expected me to cover her expenses while I got very little in return in the relationship (in any sense of the fashion) cheated on me, left garbage all over the place, pizza boxes for months, her cat that SHE wanted, crapped in my bed..... Oh holy hooligans Batman.... I went through a lot of crap.... but being my first serious relationship, I figured much of it was the norm for a relationship.

If I didn't take the time to live with her and all that and just got married...... like I said.... I wouldn't want to invision that path and I am glad I took the time to see what she was really like outside of simple dating, visiting her place or mine for an hour or two, and all that.

In the relationship after that, I was very careful when some female friends warned me that the then-g/r was staking her territory by leaving a lot of personal items at my house, such as clothing, cooking utensils, etc. This woman was hell bent on us getting married after only knowing me for less than 10-weeks. We had a brief period of separation and then tried it again. We would spend the entire weekend together on the weekends I didn't have my son, which *somewhat* was akin to living together. It was a real eye opener and she would constantly drop HINTS that we should get married. The guilt started to kick in, but I started to apply reason and could foresee being miserable in 5 years down the road, and that was just for myself. I didn't want her tied down and be miserable as well, so I ended the relationship.

Ok, so not quite the same But totally understandable.

So yes, living together is akin to being married and it does give insight into the compatibility and potential issues that can make your later life a virtual hell.

Agreed.... sure in most cases, it's not the exact same thing as being married, but geez, it's pretty close and a lot better then going into a marriage blind about these details.

 

[Galactus]

. I wouldn't want to invision that path and I am glad I took the time to see what she was really like outside of simple dating, visiting her place or mine for an hour or two, and all that.

Sounds like you didn't actually spend any time together before moving in. An hour or two together is not spending time together.

 

[JustKate]

Yes, there can be commitment without marriage, but to flat-out say, as you have here, that every couple who moves in together has made the same commitment as a couple who actually has made a public commitment to each other is...well, it's naive, really.

Nobody said every couple who moves in together has made the same commitment as a married couple. At the same time, not every married couple has the same commitment as some people that lives together. Again, I understand your point, but you are making sweeping generalizations.

Huh? My post that you quote above was in reference to John Picard's remark that living together is exactly like marriage (which is a sweeping generalization). But even so, I don't see that I made any sweeping generalizations - I in fact tried very hard not to make any, although I concede that sweeping generalizations are, indeed, being made. But not by meeeee!

 

[Goji]

I'm not religious at all.

I think it is absolutely okay for people to live together before getting married. In fact I think it's preferable to getting married. But then, I really, really don't care for the institution of marriage, and hope never to be a part of it. It also strikes me as completely unnecessary and rather silly. Why would you need a piece of paper or a ceremony to make a relationship anything more than it already is?

 

[Praxius]

Sounds like you didn't actually spend any time together before moving in. An hour or two together is not spending time together.

Well if you want more detail, a few hours usually meant calling them up, planning to go out and do something, like see a movie or have a drink, hang out for a couple of hours, talk, then head home.

Later on in the relationship, it moved more into hanging out at her place or mine to watch movies, hang out, talk, play video games on the Gamecube, whatver..... eventually we began to start spending entire weekends at one another's place to the point where it became so common it was more logical to just move in with one another...... and then that's when you start to understand more about the other person then what you already did in the previous stages.

Why?

Simply because from my observations, Every other setting, going on dates to the movies, bars, scheduling time to visit their place or stay the night, whatever....... all of these situations involve preparation of both people to dress their best, smell their best, be their best..... it's all a dating trial.

When you move in, you can't actually hide as much, you're not always prepared, you expose yourself to the other person as you truly are, how you live, and so on..... and to me, that's the difference.

 

[John Picard]

. I wouldn't want to invision that path and I am glad I took the time to see what she was really like outside of simple dating, visiting her place or mine for an hour or two, and all that.

Sounds like you didn't actually spend any time together before moving in. An hour or two together is not spending time together.

I think living together for 6-months minimum is going to be a very good display of what being married (meaning dopey ceremony and piece of paper) will bring. Again, your angle is that a dopey ceremony and a piece of paper means people will "find that true happiness" of marriage, whereas if they do not, it's just two people living together (in sin) and aren't as serious about their relationship as married people.

Query: Is a married man having a fling on the side more committed to his wife than the 35-year old couple who have been living together for the past 9 years?

 

[Kataaran]

Why would you need a piece of paper or a ceremony to make a relationship anything more than it already is?

This is exactly how I feel.

Not long after my OH and I moved in together a friend asked me if I'd been practicing my signature with the OHs surname. I said no, she didn't believe me. Are there honestly people that desperate to be married that they do these things?

We've been going out for seven years (living together for three of those) and have no plans to marry and I'm absolutely fine with that. I don't think we could be more committed with that extra bit of paper.

 

[Praxius]

I'm not religious at all.

I think it is absolutely okay for people to live together before getting married. In fact I think it's preferable to getting married. But then, I really, really don't care for the institution of marriage, and hope never to be a part of it. It also strikes me as completely unnecessary and rather silly. Why would you need a piece of paper or a ceremony to make a relationship anything more than it already is?

I used to think the same way in my early 20's and always flip flopped around with the idea of what marriage really is, and if it is all worth the trouble.

I got married not because of the "Institution" not for the taxing system changes, not out of some religious obligation and not to impress my family and friends. Granted there were some side-issues that swayed my views on getting married, such as my wife living in another country and being married makes our relationship easier..... but I decided to get married for the sake of proclaiming my loyalty and how much importance I feel this relationship diserves..... what my girlfriend at the time diserved for going through so many sacrafices for something she had no idea what the outcome would be.

This relationship is the best relationship I have had in many years I have spent trying to make one work, I knew that for her, marriage and having a family was important to her and I too would someday want to have a family as well.

Neither of us considered weddings and such to be all that important and we both already knew our feelings for one another long before we agreed to be married. Both of us would have been more then willing to just get to a court and get married by a judge or justice of the peace and inform everybody about us being married after the fact.

But both of us also have respect for our families..... My wedding would be the first in my generation (minus a few cousins who live far away that nobody could get to their weddings) and for my wife and I to get married without telling her parents beforehand and they couldn't witness their only daughter getting married in a far away country...... i'd probably lose a testicle.

We decided to have a very very small wedding at my Godparent's house with maybe 50 some odd guests at the most whom were 98% all family. The wedding was about 12-15 minutes long and the rest of the day was spent with family getting together to know one another, because for us, it was more about our families getting together more then it was for us being married, since we learned her father had cancer a couple of weeks before the wedding and traveling from Canada to Australia isn't the easiest thing to do. We are both glad at the very least that her father did get to walk his only daughter down the isle before he passed away..... and this after a second hip surgery too.

For me... so many good things came out of our relationship together such as the above, as well as our relationship not only allowed her to fullfill her own childhood dreams of coming to Canada, but her parent's dreams of taking the train accross Canada to see the Rockies, whom never once left their own country...... and I will be soon heading to Australia to do very much the same thing, since I too always wanted to visit Australia. So much came out of this relationship that for me, it needed something more special then just a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship status.

Perhaps in time, you may come accross someone in your life who does something similar that may change your views, thus find your own personal meaning.

 

[ChaosAngel]

I think it's very important that couples planning on getting married spend a few months living together. It is only when it comes to day to day mundanity that you can truly get to know the person you might intend on spending the rest of your life with. You see all their flaws and such and can then make a fully informed opinion as to marriage.

(i) Cape Town, South Africa and when I was 9 I moved to Paarl
(ii) Not very. I pretty much do my own thing and don't believe in Christianity
(iii) Personal experience

 

[-Brett-]

Never been married, but I couldn't imagine getting hitched to someone I'd never lived with. It seems insane to commit to a lifetime (supposedly) with someone when you don't even know if you can share a living space.

Oh, and...

i) Born in Chicago. Moved to Denver when I was 7.

ii) Not at all.

iii) A nasty breakup has to be better than a nasty divorce.

 

[Galactus]

Query: Is a married person having a fling on the side more committed to their spouse than the 35-year old couple who have been living together for the past 9 years?

changed it because women cheat as much as men do. You don't say if either party has cheated in that 9 years. I will assume you meant no even though in reality I would say they one or both have.

For me it is the married person because they have still committed to the other person. The couple living together or just a couple living together.

 

[Pingfah]

That is an amazingly ugly statement.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Seriously, it has been truly, truly disturbing to me in this thread to see people talk about men or women (as the case may be) as if they were just MERCHANDISE.

I haven't seen that in this thread. I see people having a pretty rational discussion of their beliefs and some solid explanations for those beliefs. Also I don't understand the whole Wal-Mart thing?

Well, when you return things to Wal-Mart, you don't even have to have a receipt. Hell, they don't know or care when you actually bought it so you can take back something you bought at Wal-Mart aaaaaaaanytime.

That was the other part of the metaphor.

 

[Galactus]

It is one that I think most people agree with. If you truly cared about the person you would do what was in your power to take care of and provide for them. In our society that is forming a marriage so they will be entitled to your assets and property when you pass away. In the USA those right are the core of the gay marriage fight. Because like it or not, if you are not married then you are single.

 

[John Picard]

Query: Is a married person having a fling on the side more committed to their spouse than the 35-year old couple who have been living together for the past 9 years?

changed it because women cheat as much as men do.

Good point, but men are automatically assumed to be the cheater.

You don't say if either party has cheated in that 9 years. I will assume you meant no even though in reality I would say they one or both have.

For me it is the married person because they have still committed to the other person. The couple living together or just a couple living together.

That is an amazingly ugly statement.

A VERY ugly statement that is typical of someone overtly religious. It is also a very false statement/ASS UMPTION. Galactus, your logic is so laughable and flawed that I won't even continue this "discussion" with you anymore. You firmly believe that heterosexuals who marry are the ONLY people capable of being in a committed relationship. I'm going to ASSUME you don't believe homosexuals could be committed seeing as how, in a majority of situations, they cannot legally marry and therefore only live together. That means they are more likely to cheat.

What an odd view of the world you have.