any one else sick of the arrogant mac vs pc ads?

[Sheep]

]When the market leader has 80% and you have 10%, you're obscure whether you're Apple, Microsoft, Dell, Sony, Motorola or anyone else. That's just the truth of it.

when you have 10% of the hardware market, a very large chunk of the portable media player and smart phone markets you're not a little player and you're not obscure not matter what some-one might think.

Separate the company from its products.

Using your reasoning, Nokia is a significant player in the handheld games market with the N-Gage because they have a huge handset marketshare and are hugely popular in Europe. Microsoft is huge in the portable media player market with the Zune because they have the world's most popular OS.

No matter how you slice it, Nokia and Microsoft are obscure players in those two respective markets the very same way Apple is in the computer OS one.

 

[Lindley]

On the virus angle, the Mac people always point to the lack of viruses. And the other side points out the "security through obscurity" fallacy. Always. Every time.

And you know what? Both sides are right. Yes, it would be wise for Mac users to install some form of anti-virus even though they probably won't need it. And---this is the big one---YES, the lack of virii on the Mac is a huge advantage, regardless of why that condition exists.

It's not a fallacy, it's the simple truth.

That's like saying "You're wrong, I completely agree with you." Security through obscurity is a bad idea: That's what makes it a fallacy. I think maybe you misinterpreted me.

It's even more ironic because they point to that fact and treat it as a reason why Macs should be more popular than PCs. All while completely oblivious of the consequences that would arise the moment they did become worthy of being a target anyone would care about writing malicious code for.

Except that this won't happen. Macs won't become more popular that PCs, hence they'll always be less of a target. Hence, their relative lack of a virus/malware problem will continue to be an advantage.

Put another way: Obscurity provides no real security, but it sure as hell avoids most of the everyday annoyances.

If I'm in a war zone, my armor might be slightly better than the armor than the guy next to me; but I'd still prefer to not be in the war zone to begin with.

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

I usually find the "If you choose us, you'll be cool!" line of advertising to be off-putting. I know that Mr. PC and Mr. Apple talk about features the two types of computers have but in the end I always feel it really comes down to an issue of 'coolness'.

 

[Shaw]

yes i've had macs, i even at one time owed my emplyment to apple as a mac tecnician (yes macs DO break, yes macs DO crash) my personal preference however is for PCs, macs just seem like playtoys to me...

When did you work on Macs?

Seems odd that you'd think of them as playtoys if you actually worked on them... I'm curious which Macs you would have been working with.

I've been servicing Macs for over 10 years now, and generally when I step away from Macs it is toward workstations rather than PCs.

Granted, when I started using computers PCs were for home users, secretaries and gamers... and were usually not up to running most nicer applications (after all, Illustrator, Freehand, Photoshop, PageMaker, FrameMaker, QuarkXPress, Premiere, Director and After Effects are examples of titles that were on Macs before eventually being ported to PCs). It was really hard to take PCs seriously back then, so I generally used Macs, SGIs, Suns and NeXT systems.

Granted, PCs have nearly wiped out the high end market... but I'm just interested in how a person who (allegedly) worked on high end computers would reach this interesting playtoy view (specially as historically Mac users don't do much playing on their systems).

Just curious.

 

[Aragorn]

^ Sounds like he's being exactly what he's sick of.

 

[Warped9]

I usually find the "If you choose us, you'll be cool!" line of advertising to be off-putting. I know that Mr. PC and Mr. Apple talk about features the two types of computers have but in the end I always feel it really comes down to an issue of 'coolness'.

Products have long been advertised as projecting a certain cache for those who buy them. There's absolutely nothing new about it.

From where I stand I didn't gravitate towards Macs because I thought they made me look cool. Hell, no one knows I own or prefer Macs unless they ask me. I chose Macs because I considered them a better product in all the ways I thought important and because I believed they suited my needs better.

Some of what I'm seeing out of the many posts here is akin to reverse snobbery. Apple products project an image of being a cut above their main competition and consequently out of some resentment they (and their owners) become a target of ridicule.

Candidly, though, Windows 7 has a huge PR hill to climb to heal the crap image Vista painted for Microsoft. Still, Microsoft deserved all the shit dumped on them for it because with all their resources how they could let a shit system like Vista hit the market as poorly prepared as it it was? When I read of people needing multiple tries to load their new OS and/or taking hours to nearly a day to do it I can only shake my head in astonishment. Granted not everyone experienced that, but such bad news really travels fast and wide.

That said I've not heard many have difficulty loading successive versions of OSX and other related Apple software. I'm on my fourth Mac OS and each one and their successive upgrades all loaded smooth as silk without a hiccup. And any related Apple software I loaded went in easily as well. That kind of ease of use tends to make one feel confident with the product.

 

[Chess Piece Face]

A hardware vendor with 10 percent of the pc market is huge. Bigger than Dell or others. It just so happens they make their own OS. It also happens to be a unix based, rock solid, well designed OS that will ALWAYS be smoother because of the integrated and closed hardware system. This is a good thing. Apple will never have to program the OS to compromise for whatever possible Frankenstein system of parts that someone slams together.

So as long as macs stay the underdog, the apple user wins. That is why I love these threads where people come in and say "macs are for fags and they don't have RAM" or "macs suck and you can't do anything real work on them, now excuse me while I go play the latest first person shooter on my windows box"

I want it to stay this way forever. It only benefits me and allows me to have a beautiful
machine I can depend on. I could give a shi what other people have. Other people don't have anything to do with what I do in my own home in my gay mac.

 

[Warped9]

A hardware vendor with 10 percent of the pc market is huge. Bigger than Dell or others. It just so happens they make their own OS. It also happens to be a unix based, rock solid, well designed OS that will ALWAYS be smoother because of the integrated and closed hardware system. This is a good thing. Apple will never have to program the OS to compromise for whatever possible Frankenstein system of parts that someone slams together.

So as long as macs stay the underdog, the apple user wins. That is why I love these threads where people come in and say "macs are for fags and they don't have RAM" or "macs suck and you can't do anything real work on them, now excuse me while I go play the latest first person shooter on my windows box"

I want it to stay this way forever. It only benefits me and allows me to have a beautiful
machine I can depend on. I could give a shi what other people have. Other people don't have anything to do with what I do in my own home in my gay mac.

 

[TheGodBen]

Checkmate never said anything about Apple not trying to sell their computers to outsiders, that's a strawman you created

Checkmate said that Apple is trying to portray the average PC user as a boring drone devoid of personality

How can you write "he didn't say that" followed by "he said that exact thing."

To be fair, you did say you were drunk, so I guess I'll give you some leeway there.

Because Apple knows that most PC users didn't even think why they're using a PC, most people are technologically mindless, they use a PC because that's what they've always used, that's what they use at work. When I worked for Dell I heard a lot of complaints from people who upgraded to Vista and they said they were seriously considering buying a Mac next time. Their biggest complaint? That MS had moved things from where they used to be in XP.

Let me reiterate that; they were considering moving to an entirely different operating system because they found the minor changes between XP and Vista too confusing. Macs are easier to use, I don't deny that, but if the learning curve from XP to Vista stressed them out too much imagine how they'd feel about the learning curve from XP to OSX. These people didn't seem to know what a Mac is, and I'd say that 60-70% of the PC market is people like that, they have no loyalty to PCs, they just use them because they use them.

Apple's ads are designed to show you that there is an alternative to what you are used to and that that alternative happens to be hip and cool. Anyone that chooses to use the boring and businesslike PC is probably boring and businesslike, but anyone that uses a cool and trendy Mac is probably smart and strangely good-looking.

 

[AnyStar]

another one that made me laugh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig1qtduR9ik&feature=quicklist

 

[Teelie]

Checkmate never said anything about Apple not trying to sell their computers to outsiders, that's a strawman you created

Checkmate said that Apple is trying to portray the average PC user as a boring drone devoid of personality

How can you write "he didn't say that" followed by "he said that exact thing."

To be fair, you did say you were drunk, so I guess I'll give you some leeway there.

Because Apple knows that most PC users didn't even think why they're using a PC, most people are technologically mindless, they use a PC because that's what they've always used, that's what they use at work. When I worked for Dell I heard a lot of complaints from people who upgraded to Vista and they said they were seriously considering buying a Mac next time. Their biggest complaint? That MS had moved things from where they used to be in XP.

Let me reiterate that; they were considering moving to an entirely different operating system because they found the minor changes between XP and Vista too confusing. Macs are easier to use, I don't deny that, but if the learning curve from XP to Vista stressed them out too much imagine how they'd feel about the learning curve from XP to OSX. These people didn't seem to know what a Mac is, and I'd say that 60-70% of the PC market is people like that, they have no loyalty to PCs, they just use them because they use them.

Apple's ads are designed to show you that there is an alternative to what you are used to and that that alternative happens to be hip and cool. Anyone that chooses to use the boring and businesslike PC is probably boring and businesslike, but anyone that uses a cool and trendy Mac is probably smart and strangely good-looking.

Summed up as: Use a PC, you're an idiot. Use a Mac and you're smart. Excellent generalization there and exactly why Mac users are perceived as snobs.

 

[AnyStar]

lol, i know EXACTLY why i prefer pcs, and it has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that i have in fact used macs...

 

[AnyStar]

Because Apple knows that most PC users didn't even think why they're using a PC, most people are technologically mindless, they use a PC because that's what they've always used, that's what they use at work. When I worked for Dell I heard a lot of complaints from people who upgraded to Vista and they said they were seriously considering buying a Mac next time. Their biggest complaint? That MS had moved things from where they used to be in XP.

Let me reiterate that; they were considering moving to an entirely different operating system because they found the minor changes between XP and Vista too confusing. Macs are easier to use, I don't deny that, but if the learning curve from XP to Vista stressed them out too much imagine how they'd feel about the learning curve from XP to OSX. These people didn't seem to know what a Mac is, and I'd say that 60-70% of the PC market is people like that, they have no loyalty to PCs, they just use them because they use them.

Apple's ads are designed to show you that there is an alternative to what you are used to and that that alternative happens to be hip and cool. Anyone that chooses to use the boring and businesslike PC is probably boring and businesslike, but anyone that uses a cool and trendy Mac is probably smart and strangely good-looking.

i'd try to elaborate on all your misgnomers, but it would exhaust me too much. all i'll say is "spoken like a true sheep"

 

[Lindley]

Summed up as: Use a PC, you're an idiot. Use a Mac and you're smart. Excellent generalization there and exactly why Mac users are perceived as snobs.

PC users can be just as much snobs, if not moreso. Ever see a class held in a Mac computer lab, where one guy brings his Dell laptop rather than deigning to use the desktop machine right in front of him? Now *that* is true and specific snobbery, as opposed to the sweeping generalizations PC users like to make about Mac users.

EDIT: Hey, I just realized something. Most of the Mac complaints about PCs are about the hardware and software. Most PC complaints about Macs are about the users. (Or the price.) Funny how that reflects the "I'm a Mac" ads casting Hodgeman as a PC box while Microsoft's response ad interprets him as a PC user. Now I'm wondering if there's something deeper at work here....

 

[jkladis]

Fucking idiot.

(Warning welcome.)

Well, sure. Wouldn't it be more productive if the argument leaned towards the ads and not the products themselves? I work on both, however I hardly think TV & Media is the best battleground for this debate.

Well maybe they are inseparable.

 

[Teelie]

Summed up as: Use a PC, you're an idiot. Use a Mac and you're smart. Excellent generalization there and exactly why Mac users are perceived as snobs.

PC users can be just as much snobs, if not moreso. Ever see a class held in a Mac computer lab, where one guy brings his Dell laptop rather than deigning to use the desktop machine right in front of him? Now *that* is true and specific snobbery, as opposed to the sweeping generalizations PC users like to make about Mac users.

EDIT: Hey, I just realized something. Most of the Mac complaints about PCs are about the hardware and software. Most PC complaints about Macs are about the users. (Or the price.) Funny how that reflects the "I'm a Mac" ads casting Hodgeman as a PC box while Microsoft's response ad interprets him as a PC user. Now I'm wondering if there's something deeper at work here....

Snobs abound everywhere but Macs have their own brand of stereotypical snobbery that's quite well known. It's easy to spot a Mac or PC user because they become instantly polarized when someone critiques their computer of choice.

All it takes is to call Mac users snobs, elitists, wannabe intellectuals, etc. or PC users dumb, sheep, ignorant, etc and see the sparks fly.

My point is that Mac users take the so-called high road with their defense and PC users tend to just throw rocks at them. People are defensive about their choices but it's Macs who are known for their brand of snobbery against PC users as opposed to PC users supposed simpleton-sheep mentality Mac users sling at them.

 

[zakkrusz]

I was sick of adds in general ever since the first week I ever started watching television as a child. Also pissing contests like the Mac VS PC ones are just infantile. I view them on the same level as a politician smearing his opponent's name in adds and would tend to go with the guy who's NOT pulling that crap. (Go Linux? )

Also, I use PCs because I've grown up with them, mastered the operating systems, and because there's more software and games for them for the stuff I want to do. I'd use a Mac too if I had to, and I wouldn't care that much. I'm just not as familiar with the OSs though and absolutely none of the places I've worked for or the schools I went to around here used them aside from my middle school.

 

[AnyStar]

the current Windows ads suck too, no because of stereotyping, but plain crap content... windows 7 advertising totally failed, i knew absolutely nothing about it untill i bought it, even the packaging was useless.

advertising aside though, i find it the most funny of all that most mac users dont even know HOW macs came to fame in the first place! (most of you will have to ask your daddies about this) but the rise of Mac came about from the fact that Mac was once the "cheap computer you could afford to buy for your kid" either just to have as their own, or off to college, etc.

this is also WHY mac continued to develop the all in one package.

although we are now into a new generation of mac users and customers, it still tickles me pink to know that their snobbery and "uniqueness" all boils down to the fact that at one time a mac was only slightly more powerfull than a commadore...

edit: yep, it was my case too! my first compy WAS a mac. which is why i saved and saved and managed to build my own PC! ahh, brings back memories!

 

[Aragorn]

PC users can be just as much snobs, if not moreso.

Well this entire thread did start with an elitist PC snob crying about Mac arrogance while turning his nose up to everyone who's said anything pro-Mac here.

Hell, just take a look at Teelie's snobbery in his need to label all Mac users as snobs.

Everyone here who has declared his stance/preference on computers and then promptly attacks the other side is being an arrogant snob! And if it's not enough to attack the hardware, he'll attack the user.

The intelligent, articulate, rational statements that look at both sides of the issue and acknowledge pros and cons of both sides are few and far between here. It's mostly the master thesis writers exclaiming, "You're a sheep because you're a sheep!"

EDIT: I should also add that the very nature of this thread probably precludes the first sentence in the previous paragraph from taking place.

And also, I'm typing this from... a PC!

 

[AnyStar]

PC users can be just as much snobs, if not moreso.

Well this entire thread did start with an elitist PC snob crying about Mac arrogance while turning his nose up to everyone who's said anything pro-Mac here.

lmao, i'm not gonna get baited into a fight, i dont think i'm snobbish at all. i just prefer PC.