any one else sick of the arrogant mac vs pc ads?

[Lindley]

At lets face it - if there wasn't the demand for this sort of thing Microsoft would never have released virtual PC for Mac back in the G4 days (even if it was a god-awful thing), Virtual PC or Hyper-V nor would VMware be selling their Virtualisation software.

Actually, Virtual PC was originally a Connectix product. Microsoft bought it off of them.

And as bad as it may have been, it was better than its predecessor, SoftWindows, which was an Insignia product.

Still, I must agree with the general at Sheep's implication that the ability to load two different OSes is somehow a bad thing.

 

[Marc]

^ Agreed 100%

I've worked with Mac's, I've built PC's from scratch. Those adds are 10 years out of date. The biggest stumbling block for me is the cost of Apple products. I just shelled out almost $2K for a MacPro for my son to use in college. My current PC (that I built) is faster and cost 1/2 as much. Sorry, I'll keep my PC.

Q2

And how much would an quivalent windows laptop to what your bought your son?

A Dell latittude E5500 spec upto the same level as the MacBook Pro 15" (starting price US$1699) comes in at $1663 before Dell give you a discount (and if you son is a student he could of gotten the education discount which takes off 10%).

Of course you could by a cheaper entry level Dell and if you're lucky it will still be working by the end of the school year.

Plus if you actually had any idea you'd realise that any desktop PC is going to be faster than a laptop due to the compromises that have tbe made (starting with the extra price paid for the mobile versions of the processor - you can't just pop standed desktop chip - the heat and the power draw will kill things very quickly).

Just to chime in on this one, my dell inspiron 1545 cost me about a grand. The mac book pro that my buddy just purchased cost him closer to 1700...and yet his only had 2 gigs of ram (compared to my 4) as well as less hard drive space. Im not sure what his processor was, but it probably wasn't much better than my core 2 duo @2.5 ghz

then he messed up somewhere as the should of had the 4GB (and I messed up the price is $1799 not 1699).

http://store.apple.com/ca/browse/ho...ACBOOKPRO-INDEX&cp=CONFIGURE-MACBOOKPRO-INDEX

the Inspiron is also the cheaper of the Dell laptops (and if you have look it's also much cheaper than the Latittude even when the former has high specs).

It's not just the specs - it's the construction and component quality. The MacBook for example has alumnium case which makes it stronger and both Macbook and the LAttidue would have better quality LCD panels than the Inspiron.

 

[Marc]

At lets face it - if there wasn't the demand for this sort of thing Microsoft would never have released virtual PC for Mac back in the G4 days (even if it was a god-awful thing), Virtual PC or Hyper-V nor would VMware be selling their Virtualisation software.

Actually, Virtual PC was originally a Connectix product. Microsoft bought it off of them.

And as bad as it may have been, it was better than its predecessor, SoftWindows, which was an Insignia product.

Still, I must agree with the general at Sheep's implication that the ability to load two different OSes is somehow a bad thing.

Never came across Softwindows but Virtual PC was bad enough - who the fuck was the bright spark that decided to use Cirrus Logic emulation for the graphics - UGH?

 

[Small White Car]

I do kind of like how Microsoft has taken the "concept" with their "I'm a PC" ads showing the wide variety of people who use PCs who are no stuffy middle-aged men in suit and glasses who are only concerned about business.

Uhm...those were the dumbest thing Microsoft could have done.

1) It was a Microsoft ad that specifically made you think of Macs. That's called free advertising for your rival. Bad move #1.

2) Second, the Mac ads aren't about "Mac Users" and "PC Users." Those guys ARE the computers. Apple is saying "your computer is dull, why not try another?"

Microsoft misinterpreted this as "those guys are computer users." Ok, well, so what? It means that Apple was saying "PCs are boring" and Microsoft responds by saying "our users are not boring!"

That's what's called a freudian slip and it means Microsoft actually thinks their users are boring people.

So in short, they made ads that insulted their users and made them think of Macs all at the same time. Smooth.

- - -

NONE of this is to say that the Apple ads are good, but my god, how could Microsoft have screwed up their response any worse??

 

[AnyStar]

Yes and Microsoft is just so truth with claims it makes about it's products and business practices (let me know when Apple is prosecutred in the EU for anti-comptetative practices).

lmao, the day apple has a market share big enough to actually have that kind of trouble, is the day i burn all my electronics and head for a cave in the hills...

 

[Marc]

Yes and Microsoft is just so truth with claims it makes about it's products and business practices (let me know when Apple is prosecutred in the EU for anti-comptetative practices).

lmao, the day apple has a market share big enough to actually have that kind of trouble, is the day i burn all my electronics and head for a cave in the hills...

I'll give you a hint - it's call iTunes.

 

[Checkmate]

2) Second, the Mac ads aren't about "Mac Users" and "PC Users." Those guys ARE the computers. Apple is saying "your computer is dull, why not try another?"

Microsoft misinterpreted this as "those guys are computer users." Ok, well, so what? It means that Apple was saying "PCs are boring" and Microsoft responds by saying "our users are not boring!"

That's what's called a freudian slip and it means Microsoft actually thinks their users are boring people.

[...]

NONE of this is to say that the Apple ads are good, but my god, how could Microsoft have screwed up their response any worse??

Uh, no.

Yes, on the surface Apple was saying that PCs were dull and Macs were exciting. But the subtext -- which was plainly clear except, apparently to Apple fanboys and/or apologists -- is that they were also saying that only dull, dumpy old businessmen use PCs while hip, exciting youths use Macs. That's not a Freudian slip (and, by the way, you get a big for trying to sound like an expert on the subject); that's exactly what they were doing.

The Microsoft ads still suck, but that's completely unrelated to the point.

 

[Trekker4747]

2) Second, the Mac ads aren't about "Mac Users" and "PC Users." Those guys ARE the computers. Apple is saying "your computer is dull, why not try another?"

Microsoft misinterpreted this as "those guys are computer users." Ok, well, so what? It means that Apple was saying "PCs are boring" and Microsoft responds by saying "our users are not boring!"

That's what's called a freudian slip and it means Microsoft actually thinks their users are boring people.

[...]

NONE of this is to say that the Apple ads are good, but my god, how could Microsoft have screwed up their response any worse??

Uh, no.

Yes, on the surface Apple was saying that PCs were dull and Macs were exciting. But the subtext -- which was plainly clear except, apparently to Apple fanboys and/or apologists -- is that they were also saying that only dull, dumpy old businessmen use PCs while hip, exciting youths use Macs. That's not a Freudian slip (and, by the way, you get a big for trying to sound like an expert on the subject); that's exactly what they were doing.

The Microsoft ads still suck, but that's completely unrelated to the point.

Precisely how I read it. I mean, how else do you read into how the two formats are potrayed, esp. with PC even at times talking about how great business work is.

 

[Lindley]

The flaw with that thinking is that John Hodgeman rules, and everyone knows it.

 

[Trekker4747]

The flaw with that thinking is that John Hodgeman rules, and everyone knows it.

Which is why he comes across a sympathetic in the ads.

 

[Snaploud]

I watched all the mac vs pc ads earlier today. [I was bored, and it really didn't take that long. They're just ads.]

The problem with a couple of the more recent ads is when somebody other than their main "mac guy" is being critical (particularly the woman with the box). It comes off less as a joke and more mean-spirited.

 

[Small White Car]

Yes, on the surface Apple was saying that PCs were dull and Macs were exciting. But the subtext -- which was plainly clear except, apparently to Apple fanboys and/or apologists -- is that they were also saying that only dull, dumpy old businessmen use PCs while hip, exciting youths use Macs. That's not a Freudian slip (and, by the way, you get a big for trying to sound like an expert on the subject); that's exactly what they were doing.

So Apple paid money to make ads congratulating their own users and telling non-Apple users to never buy their product? So, like, the opposite of an ad I guess. That's your theory? That they're trying to decrease their sales?

You're seriously telling me that I'm wrong for thinking that Apple wants to sell more products and you're right for thinking they want to sell less??

 

[Trekker4747]

So Apple paid money to make ads congratulating their own users and telling non-Apple users to never buy their product? So, like, the opposite of an ad I guess. That's your theory? That they're trying to decrease their sales?

You're seriously telling me that I'm wrong for thinking that Apple wants to sell more products and you're right for thinking they want to sell less??

No, they were telling non-Apple users who may be in the market for a new computer, frustrated with the "problems with PCs", or people looking for a first computer unsure which format to get to "buy an Apple because Apples are cool, edgy, and problem-free."

 

[Small White Car]

No, they were telling non-Apple users who may be in the market for a new computer, frustrated with the "problems with PCs", or people looking for a first computer unsure which format to get to "buy an Apple because Apples are cool, edgy, and problem-free."

Am I crazy? I thought that's what I said and then you and Checkmate both said I was wrong and that they weren't talking about computers, but the users.

Now you're changing your mind and saying I was right?

What changed? I thought you agreed with Checkmate.

 

[Trekker4747]

Sigh. Let me explain my position.

In the commercials John Hodgman and Justin Long are portraying the PC computing format and the Apple/Mac computing format, respectively.

Hodgman is portraying PC in the stereotypical manner of business-like and with a past-life full of failures or accomplishments already achieved -or better achieved- by...

Long's Apple/Mac who is portraying his format as being hip, cool, cutting edge and without problems.

All of the Mac/PC ads are filled with stereotypes against PCs -that they're problem-filled and business machines whereas Macs are problem-free and used to do many fun things.

Each is portraying the respective computer formats anthropomorphically, not users of the formats.

The "aim" of the ads -as I see it- is to convince people who may be disillusioned with PCs, shopping for a new computer or may be looking to get into computing to choose Macs because of the perceived and presumed benefits Macs have over PCs.

So, for example, in one of the more recent ones they're trying to tell people in the market for a new computer that, "Hey, don't be excited about Windows 7 because Microsoft and Microsoft users have all said before that this new operating system is going to be great and not have any of the problems of their predecessor. What's going to be different this time? Hey, buy a Mac, we don't have these problems." *fingers crossed*

 

[Small White Car]

Sigh. Let me explain my position.

Your position matches mine. (As you typed here.) We both agree.

Which is why I was confused when you said "Precisely how I read it." to Checkmate after he said I was wrong. (Up when he gave me a rolley-eye for being such a huge moron?)

That's what's confusing me.

 

[Marc]

Sigh. Let me explain my position.

In the commercials John Hodgman and Justin Long are portraying the PC computing format and the Apple/Mac computing format, respectively.

Hodgman is portraying PC in the stereotypical manner of business-like and with a past-life full of failures or accomplishments already achieved -or better achieved- by...

Long's Apple/Mac who is portraying his format as being hip, cool, cutting edge and filled with problems.

All of the Mac/PC ads are filled with stereotypes against PCs -that they're problem-filled and business machines whereas Macs are problem-free and used to do many fun things.

Each is portraying the respective computer formats anthropomorphically, not users of the formats.

The "aim" of the ads -as I see it- is to convince people who may be disillusioned with PCs, shopping for a new computer or may be looking to get into computing to choose Macs because of the perceived and presumed benefits Macs have over PCs.

So, for example, in one of the more recent ones they're trying to tell people in the market for a new computer that, "Hey, don't be excited about Windows 7 because Microsoft and Microsoft users have all said before that this new operating system is going to be great and not have any of the problems of their predecessor. What's going to be different this time? Hey, buy a Mac, we don't have these problems." *fingers crossed*

Hey China called - they're concerned the hole you're digging is about to breakthrough.

 

[Beef Squatthrust]

I actually like them, I think they're fun. I've had both Macs and PCs, Currently I have a PC, and like them both for various reasons.

 

[Sheep]

So tell me - how many viruses do you know of that are out there for the Macs?

http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Gets+Its+Own+Trojan+Viruses+for+the+First+Time/article14950.htm

http://www.dailytech.com/New+Attack+Compromises+Apple+Keyboards/article15863.htm

http://www.dailytech.com/Another+Major+Mac+Computer+Security+Flaw+Discovered/article15832.htm

http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Patc...Year+After+Initial+Discovery/article15427.htm

Macs DO have less malware out there than Windows--there's absolutely no doubt about that. But unless Apple decides to lock up the Mac the way they have the iPhone, there will ALWAYS be exploits out there. Apple's relative obscurity means that two or more Macs actually have to interface with each other for a trojan to spread, which lessens the chance of any exploit spreading like wildfire given the 10% marketshare.

Apple's TV ads make it sound like the average Windows user is going to catch a virus or get infected with malware by just going about their regular business (surfing the web, sending emails, etc.) when the reality is that it's EXTREMELY difficult to do so if you've taken reasonable precautions (AV, staying away from warez and porn sites, not opening EXE files and other random attachments that show up in spam emails, etc.).

secondly Apple isn't obscure - their market share is something like 10% which makes them one of the largest vendors out there of comptuers.

When the market leader has 80% and you have 10%, you're obscure whether you're Apple, Microsoft, Dell, Sony, Motorola or anyone else. That's just the truth of it.

 

[Checkmate]

So Apple paid money to make ads congratulating their own users and telling non-Apple users to never buy their product? So, like, the opposite of an ad I guess. That's your theory? That they're trying to decrease their sales?

You're seriously telling me that I'm wrong for thinking that Apple wants to sell more products and you're right for thinking they want to sell less??

No.

I'm telling you you're wrong for exactly what I said and what I quoted you saying. You claimed that Apple did not try to say that PC users were boring old duds and that Mac users were hip youths. You claimed that Microsoft made a "Freudian slip" about it regarding that very thing.

Apple was saying that and Microsoft did see it accurately. Microsoft didn't make any mistake there. Nor did the countless other non-Apple fanboys/apologists who've seen the commercials.

So yes, you were painfully wrong in the post I quoted. No amount of trying to backpeddle or spindoctor your own words will save you from that fact.