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I am investigating the world of Online Dating.

This ladder theory is kind of interesting... I usually don't give much thought to dating my female friends (although I will often have lustful thoughts about the more attractive ones, because, well, I'm a guy :p).

Plus, I've never gotten the sense that any of my female friends were interested in dating me -- well, except a couple of times when they actually came right out and said it. One of them caught me completely off-guard --I had no idea she felt that way (which isn't too surprising, I guess, considering how clueless I can be)-- and although I really liked her, I just didn't feel the same way, so I tried to let her down gently -- ugh, was that ever awkward. :crazy: The other made no secret of the fact that she was developing feelings for me, but she was (and I feel kind of bad saying this, but it's the truth) not what I consider attractive, so I just politely let her know that I was not interested.

It's interesting -- on the rare occasion that I've considered asking out one of my friends, my primary concern was that, if she said no, we wouldn't be able to go back to the same friendship we'd previously enjoyed, what with my interest in her being out in the open. Yet I've managed to stay friends with these two women who asked me out -- perhaps my fears were over nothing. But I still don't know... Ladies, how would you react if a male friend asked you out? Would you find things with them to be awkward afterward if you turned him down?

I think I sort of know where RoJo is coming from here:

My big problem is not that I'm "friend zoned" by girls that I am interested in. I friend zone them right back. I'm 24 right now, and I can honestly say I haven't had a single crush on anyone since I was 18, and that person was someone I had been friends with for 2 years (turns out she was interested in me when were 16, but I was completely clueless, and then when I expressed interest a couple years later, she basically said I missed the boat).

Believe me, I have a lot of female friends, and I wouldn't hesitate to ask them out if I actually had an interest in pursuing that kind of relationship. I just don't. I like that they're my friends, and I really don't want it to go further than that.

I can't help but wonder how true that is for me as well. I too have a fair amount of female friends, and I like being their friend. Most of the time, I don't really feel any desire to alter the nature of our relationship (except, in some cases, maybe making it a friends-with-benefits thing, but again, that just goes back to me being male ;)).

Also, I don't often have crushes either; I can think of a couple mild ones in the past decade, and only one in the past two years that was fairly strong. That's it. I like many of the women I get to know, but rarely do I think, "Yeah, I want to go out with her." I'm usually not thinking "relationship"... which might explain why I've never really been in one. Eh, I don't know -- I suppose some might consider that one of my little foibles. :shrug:

Being a nice guy can get you tons of respect, but it'll rarely get you laid. :lol:

I hear you... I'm sure that's not the case with all nice guys, but it's certainly felt like that for me a lot of the time. :sigh:

Whatever you do...don't have sex on the first date or the second...wait til the third or longer.

Oh? Why do you say that?
 
I read the ladder theory link, and while I laughed and while there is a chance that some of it is true, I just cannot accept that all women think that way. As for me, yes if a girl is attractive I would more than likely want to have sex with her. However, I can be turned off, even by someone who looks "beautiful". Attitude's a big factor for me. If you expect me to wait on you hand and foot and treat me like garbage, I don't care what you look like it's out the door.

There was a girl I dated a few years ago who had a lot in common with me. She was a big sci-fi fan, loved Medieval mythologies, was intelligent and had a twisted sense of humor. However, after a while I made it onto her "friends" list, as in "you're a sweet guy, I like being your friend". Well, we still talk, and I have accepted that she doesn't want to take it any further. I have many valued relationships with women that are friendships, and yes, it gets frustrating after a while that while I'm making lots of friends, I'm not finding anyone who wants to pursue a relationship. I have a theory.

1) Confidence. - I think women can tell when a guy isn't confident in his abilities. I mean, I believe there's someone for everyone, but that doesn't mean your someone wants to settle. You don't have to look like a stud, you don't have to have a million dollars in the bank, and you don't have to treat someone badly to find the right person. I feel, after much study, that it's all in the confidence. It's all in how you present yourself. If you believe you're worth a relationship, I think the girl will sense that you believe it.

Maybe. I mean, I may be way off base, but it's the best theory I've got. It ties in to the idea that I have seen so many women with guys that are terribly unattractive (not that I'm judging, I'm just saying on a hygiene level), guys that are as bright as a box of hammers, men and women from all walks of life, and to me the one thing that connects all the working relationships (as in more than friends) is the level of confidence. If you don't think you're good enough, well you're not.

I don't know if it's true, but I'm going to try it and see. I just have to work on my own confidence level. I have this problem where I fully acknowledge there are many people better than me at many things. I have to find what I'm good at and really drive that point home.

As for online dating, I have tried eHarmony, and while I had a few dates, they never went anywhere. So, I might just give match.com a shot since it seems quite a few people here have tried it with some success.

As for you, RoJoHen, I know it's old, tired and cliched, but just be yourself.
Be confident. :D

Oh, and Jetfire: No. If a girl wants to have sex with me on the first date, I'm all for it. It's highly unlikely, but I'm still all for it.

J.
 
I also kind of mentally matured in a weird way. I never had that horny teenager phase, and I've always been way too mature for my age. At holiday dinners, when all the other kids would leave the table to go off and play, I would stay sitting with the adults and just listen to their conversations. In high school, all of my friends were girls. I never had any real male influences (my dad is incredibly tame; I'm not sure I've ever heard him talk about sex my entire life).

It was until my sophomore year of college that I finally started hanging out with other guys on a regular basis. They cursed and farted and talked about lots of inappropriate sexual things, and it took me a lot of time (and a lot of alcohol) to allow myself to get involved in that kind of stuff. I think that kind of male-male bonding is very important. Now I'm 24 and I have an amazing group of guys that are my best friends. When I moved a little over a month ago, it broke my heart, and I spent the first two days very depressed because my friends were no longer living down the street. But I've already gone back and visited twice since then, so I've gotten over that.

The point that I'm making is: I think that male bonding kind of thing needed to happen before I realized I wanted a relationship. I needed to be broken of my old "one of the girls" persona.

I have my group of guy friends. Now I'm finally ready for a girlfriend. And I think knowing that you're ready is a very important first step. I was never really looking before.
 
1) Confidence. - I think women can tell when a guy isn't confident in his abilities. I mean, I believe there's someone for everyone, but that doesn't mean your someone wants to settle. You don't have to look like a stud, you don't have to have a million dollars in the bank, and you don't have to treat someone badly to find the right person. I feel, after much study, that it's all in the confidence. It's all in how you present yourself. If you believe you're worth a relationship, I think the girl will sense that you believe it.

Maybe. I mean, I may be way off base, but it's the best theory I've got. It ties in to the idea that I have seen so many women with guys that are terribly unattractive (not that I'm judging, I'm just saying on a hygiene level), guys that are as bright as a box of hammers, men and women from all walks of life, and to me the one thing that connects all the working relationships (as in more than friends) is the level of confidence. If you don't think you're good enough, well you're not.

I don't know if it's true, but I'm going to try it and see. I just have to work on my own confidence level. I have this problem where I fully acknowledge there are many people better than me at many things. I have to find what I'm good at and really drive that point home.

Confidence is important because people do respond positively to confident people, as long as they aren't totally up themselves. As you said, if you believe you are "worth" companionship/a relationship then others will too.

I know you said you weren't judging but your comment on unattractive men with hot women reminds me of the "out of my/his league" stuff. That is nonsense in my opinion. It is any imaginary barrier created by a lack of confidence or an over inflated opinion on yourself and should be ignored...though if you lack confidence that is easier said than done.

Female friends can be very helpful in working up your confidence as well, so don't be afraid to ask them to help you out.
 
Actually, that's a good idea. If you're attracted to a friend, flirt with her a bit. If she seems to be expressing disinterest, say you're just practicing on her. Should neatly sidestep any uncomfortableness.
 
Yes. I can be quite the charmer
Somehow, I doubt it.

Let's see how many people wanna lynch me, now. :rommie:
Actually I'm mostly sorry for you.

I'm 30, but I am in much better shape and health than when I was 18, I don't smoke, I rarely drink, I take hygene seriously, and make sure I look my best when going anywhere.

It seems, though, that many women find that a turn-off, why, is beyond me....not so "Bad-Ass", I guess.
Again, I suspect that your groomed appearence has nothing to do with the fact that you can't get any.

I'll take getting laid rather than so-called 'respect'. Most that nice guys get are leftovers....
Sorry to break it for you, bub, but you are most definitevely not a nice guy. You rants here and your behaviour in your own anecdote make it quite clear. Beer-guzzling punks are not the only type of "bad guys". The passive-aggressive judgmental pricks can be as much as annoying.

If you're attracted to a friend, flirt with her a bit. If she seems to be expressing disinterest, say you're just practicing on her. Should neatly sidestep any uncomfortableness.
Or you can go the ShamelessMcBundy route, and flirt with everything that moves. ;)
 
Nice guys don't finish last. That's just another excuse. Nice guys end up with the girl. People who let others run all over them, thinking that that is how you are nice don't get the girl. Nobody wants a pushover for a boyfriend. Hell, I don't really want a pushover for a friend. :lol:
 
I also kind of mentally matured in a weird way. I never had that horny teenager phase, and I've always been way too mature for my age. At holiday dinners, when all the other kids would leave the table to go off and play, I would stay sitting with the adults and just listen to their conversations. In high school, all of my friends were girls. I never had any real male influences (my dad is incredibly tame; I'm not sure I've ever heard him talk about sex my entire life).

It was until my sophomore year of college that I finally started hanging out with other guys on a regular basis. They cursed and farted and talked about lots of inappropriate sexual things, and it took me a lot of time (and a lot of alcohol) to allow myself to get involved in that kind of stuff. I think that kind of male-male bonding is very important. Now I'm 24 and I have an amazing group of guys that are my best friends. When I moved a little over a month ago, it broke my heart, and I spent the first two days very depressed because my friends were no longer living down the street. But I've already gone back and visited twice since then, so I've gotten over that.

The point that I'm making is: I think that male bonding kind of thing needed to happen before I realized I wanted a relationship. I needed to be broken of my old "one of the girls" persona.

I have my group of guy friends. Now I'm finally ready for a girlfriend. And I think knowing that you're ready is a very important first step. I was never really looking before.

:confused: I find this very confusing. Rather jaw-dropping gender stereotyping.

Your dad isn't a "real" male influence because he's "tame" and doesn't talk about sex? Real men have to conform to this rather offensive picture of maleness you've conjured up? By the gods, do you really think that men and boys are only capable of talking about sex and drinking beer and laughing at farts? Why do you seem to think male-male bonding means adherence to these somewhat offensive stereotypes?

Furthermore, if you have to alter who you are to fit in, then I doubt these people are really your friends. Friends accept you as you are, not on the basis of your conformity to ridiculous gender stereotypes.

As someone who has always had close friends of both sexes, let me tell you there is no difference between bonding with a male and with a female friend.
 
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Nice guys don't finish last. That's just another excuse. Nice guys end up with the girl. People who let others run all over them, thinking that that is how you are nice don't get the girl. Nobody wants a pushover for a boyfriend. Hell, I don't really want a pushover for a friend. :lol:

^ Very true. Far too many people think that nice = doormat.

I met my wife through an online dating site. I got pretty lucky, she was only the third person I'd contacted and the second one I went on a date with. We clicked immediately, although the fact that she likes Star Trek may have had a little to do with that.
 
Nice guys don't finish last. That's just another excuse. Nice guys end up with the girl. People who let others run all over them, thinking that that is how you are nice don't get the girl. Nobody wants a pushover for a boyfriend. Hell, I don't really want a pushover for a friend. :lol:

Well, I would interpret this as- well, I'm sure you can guess- as "nobody wants a man who isn't "manly" enough in their lives". Men who don't conform to the ideal of masculinity don't "get the girl".
 
Nonsense. They may not get the girl they WANT at a given time, but that is not a universal truth.

For example: My sister-in-law (who is smoking hot) is about to marry a short stocky balding medieval literature PHD candidate. He could not POSSIBLY be further from the masculine ideal.
 
Nonsense. They may not get the girl they WANT at a given time, but that is not a universal truth.

For example: My sister-in-law (who is smoking hot) is about to marry a short stocky balding medieval literature PHD candidate. He could not POSSIBLY be further from the masculine ideal.

None of the attributes you listed actually violate the ideal I had in mind. Physical apperance and intellectual pursuits have nothing to do with how closely you fit the ideal of masculinity in regards to "being the man" in a relationship.
 
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