When Good Shows Go Bad

[Anthony Sabre]

I'm going waaaay back on these two but bare with me.

V - The mini series was just plain awesome. I just finished a one month mini marathon and watched all of V from the mini series to the regular series. The regular series was a major disappointment and not just due to a scaled back special effects budget. The writing was noticeably bad, even for an 80s show. And don't even get me started on the Star Child crap.

War of the Worlds - Loved season one. Season two came around and I wasn't even sure it was the same show. Plus they killed off almost the entire original cast.

 

[Triskelion]

^ Stephen King's The Stand did that too. Wrote himself into a corner, so halfway through the book he blew half of 'em up real good. Cheater!

Anybody remember that miniseries? It was still an awesome book with a great villain.

 

[Random_Spock]

Angel - Season 5 completely went to shit.

Stargate SG-1 / Atlantis - now it was never all that good to begin with, but it progressively got worse and worse, even though the Ben Browder years are a guilty pleasure of mine for the pure mindless thrill. It's still pretty bad though.

The X-Files - the moment they let Mulder and Scully get together as a couple. :smashing head on table: They're not supposed to be together as a couple, they don't work as a couple, they work as partners and very close friends.

I disagree about Angel there. Sure there were moments where I just wanted to hit my head up against the wall while watching the show... heck the whole 'Angel's son having sex with Cordelia' thing made me want to frickin vomit . That was one plot twist that I wish wouldn't have EVER existed.

As for Stargate... I didn't think that the earlier episodes were that bad. But the later ones... *ugh* That's when the shit hit the fan for me there. I gave up being a fan of the show. It downright sucked.

Definitely disagree about the X-Files -- I didn't like how some of the writing came down towards the end there. But I don't think the world ended once Mulder and Scully became a couple. Heck the only time that I 'bashed my head against the wall' was when William was given up for adoption -- that was a complete cop out by Carter imo. Plain and simple. That ticked me off royally.

Also, if one remembers 'Requiem', 'Je Souhaite' amongst the later eps (after they had become a couple)... they can work as partners and still be together as a couple. It's not a bad thing imo. Just as long as the script is good along with the dialogue.

 

[3D Master]

Definitely disagree about the X-Files -- I didn't like how some of the writing came down towards the end there. But I don't think the world ended once Mulder and Scully became a couple. Heck the only time that I 'bashed my head against the wall' was when William was given up for adoption -- that was a complete cop out by Carter imo. Plain and simple. That ticked me off royally.

Also, if one remembers 'Requiem', 'Je Souhaite' amongst the later eps (after they had become a couple)... they can work as partners and still be together as a couple. It's not a bad thing imo. Just as long as the script is good along with the dialogue.

Not to me. Mulder and Scully have not a shred of romantic cheemistry between them whatsoever; friends, partners, war-buddies - chemistry UP THE WAZOO! But romantic? Nada.

That's also they way they were written for 5 years until Carter caved for the movie. He's been saying for those first five years, that Mulder and Scully were partners and deep friends, but would never be lovers. And thus, that's the way they were played.

As lovers it just ravels apart, no matter the writing as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Triskelion]

That puts me in mind of "The Lone Gunmen", an X Files spinoff that lasted for 13 episodes. It had to have its closure in the X Files episode "Jump the Shark". Another short-lived gem.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I was actually enjoying the Land of the Lost marathon on Sci-Fi until season 3 hit. Holy crap, I mean it's just a cheap kids show but it had it moments, it had its charm and some decent ideas, all thrown out the door.

Same with Space 1999 and Buck Rogers awful retoolings that seemed to have no grasp on what had worked the season before chasing after some ellusive mainstream success.

 

[Kira's Mom]

Sliders got really bad after they killed Arturo. It was all downhill from there.

QFT. And once Sabrina Lloyd was gone, too, I stopped watching. The addition of Kari Wuher destroyed the show.

Nah, Kari Wuhrer was just fine. In fact, at that time it attempted to redeem itself and was actually getting watchable again.

The "What movie can we rip off this week"-season is what destroyed the show.

I disagree about Wuhrer. She can't act, and she was so bad at times she a distraction.

The movie ripoffs didn't help the show, either.

 

[Bad Bishop]

X-Files, once it became clear they weren't going to resolve any plotline in any decent or satisfactory way and just keep piling on the bullshit deeper and deeper with increasing self-satisfaction...

To me it's always amusing to observe the praise for Lost, which absolutely humbles The X-Files when it comes to piling on the "bullshit."

Seriously, I don't accept that The X-Files ever went "bad." That's just a meme promoted by the same people who claim that they quit watching after season 5 or 6. Really, how would they know?

 

[3D Master]

X-Files, once it became clear they weren't going to resolve any plotline in any decent or satisfactory way and just keep piling on the bullshit deeper and deeper with increasing self-satisfaction...

To me it's always amusing to observe the praise for Lost, which absolutely humbles The X-Files when it comes to piling on the "bullshit."

Seriously, I don't accept that The X-Files ever went "bad." That's just a meme promoted by the same people who claim that they quit watching after season 5 or 6. Really, how would they know?

Because they stopped watching. If it stayed good, they wouldn't have stopped watching.

 

[DevilEyes]

X-Files, once it became clear they weren't going to resolve any plotline in any decent or satisfactory way and just keep piling on the bullshit deeper and deeper with increasing self-satisfaction...

To me it's always amusing to observe the praise for Lost, which absolutely humbles The X-Files when it comes to piling on the "bullshit."

Seriously, I don't accept that The X-Files ever went "bad." That's just a meme promoted by the same people who claim that they quit watching after season 5 or 6. Really, how would they know?

Nope. People who watched The X-Files to its bitter end know that the Mythology stopped making any sense halfway through season 6 (why, oh why didn't they end it with "One Son"?), got completely destroyed with the Samantha "closure" in season 7, and then continued with muddled and unsuccessful attempts of salvaging it in season 8 and 9... but by that time, it was obvious that Carter & co. were just desperately making stuff up but had no idea where the whole thing was going.

The praise for Lost comes from the fact that the mythology of Lost, although complicated, actually makes sense, and when the payoffs come for the long-time mysteries, they fit with what came before, and for the most part, feel satisfying.

Of course, Lost is not over yet, so it may end up eventually screwing up its mythology and disappointing the viewers with the lack of resolution to the most important mysteries, like BSG did... But you have no way of knowing that, unless you can see the future. And so far, I have faith in the show since Cuse and Lindelof seem to know what they're doing.

 

[Harvey]

Nah, The X-Files made sense all the way into the end of season eight. Season nine is a little muddled because of Mulder's poorly explained absence, I admit. But people who complain that Samantha's fate doesn't make sense really mean to say they didn't like it. Which is a different issue.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

What was Samantha's fate exactly? I forget, and I stopped watching before the end.

 

[Harvey]

For the long and complicated version, the X-Files wikipedia sums it up, albeit it somewhat clumsily. But, in short, she died years after her abduction, but before the series began.

 

[Random_Spock]

Definitely disagree about the X-Files -- I didn't like how some of the writing came down towards the end there. But I don't think the world ended once Mulder and Scully became a couple. Heck the only time that I 'bashed my head against the wall' was when William was given up for adoption -- that was a complete cop out by Carter imo. Plain and simple. That ticked me off royally.

Also, if one remembers 'Requiem', 'Je Souhaite' amongst the later eps (after they had become a couple)... they can work as partners and still be together as a couple. It's not a bad thing imo. Just as long as the script is good along with the dialogue.

Not to me. Mulder and Scully have not a shred of romantic cheemistry between them whatsoever; friends, partners, war-buddies - chemistry UP THE WAZOO! But romantic? Nada.

That's also they way they were written for 5 years until Carter caved for the movie. He's been saying for those first five years, that Mulder and Scully were partners and deep friends, but would never be lovers. And thus, that's the way they were played.

As lovers it just ravels apart, no matter the writing as far as I'm concerned.

Agreed to a point. But it wouldn't have made sense for them to have had romantic chemistry in the movie. It just wouldn't have worked plot wise.

That's my take on it. But I do see where you're coming from on that.

I thought they did a damn good job in terms of things, chemistry wise, considering how much time has past since the show went off the air.

It could have been worse. I was expecting to see no chemistry at all -- but they proved me wrong there.

Again it wasn't perfect, but it certainly surprised me.

Also, the one thing that stuck out to me was just the lack of physicality this time around. That was Chris and Frank's idea (check out the commentary for IWTB, they mention it there)... they figured it would set out the emotions. And it kind of did.

But the chemistry really shined when both the physicality and the emotions were present and accounted for. I figured that was what was missing. I really missed that physicality that the characters had in the show. That's what really made (in part) the chemistry stand out to me.

One of the few times that it did this time was during the bed scene. Their chemistry shined in that scene. The love and playfulness just shone through there. And the end scene wasn't perfect, but it wasn't bad either.

I certainly hope that they bring back the physicality like it was on the show next time (if there is one). Since I think that those two can still do a good job in terms of playing the characters.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Poor Samantha. So basically she was returned and then abused for years. How bleak.

 

[Random_Spock]

Poor Samantha. So basically she was returned and then abused for years. How bleak.

Yea I certainly didn't envy her fate. It was so sad. To see all of that hard work and searching that Mulder did turn out the way that it did in the end. So sad and bleak.

 

[DevilEyes]

Nah, The X-Files made sense all the way into the end of season eight. Season nine is a little muddled because of Mulder's poorly explained absence, I admit. But people who complain that Samantha's fate doesn't make sense really mean to say they didn't like it. Which is a different issue.

I didn't like it because it was a huge anticlimax, and it did not feel like the writers were trying to say something with the story, but that they wanted just to do away with that storyline because they didn't know what to do with it, and they were too lazy to come up with something else. It was the point in the show where it seemed like everyone - Carter, the other writers, Duchovny, Anderson - were tired of the show and were just going through the motions and coming up with lame and tired scenarios or comedy/parody episodes that were not half as funny as they were meant to be.

 

[hyzmarca]

Nope. People who watched The X-Files to its bitter end know that the Mythology stopped making any sense halfway through season 6 (why, oh why didn't they end it with "One Son"?), got completely destroyed with the Samantha "closure" in season 7, and then continued with muddled and unsuccessful attempts of salvaging it in season 8 and 9... but by that time, it was obvious that Carter & co. were just desperately making stuff up but had no idea where the whole thing was going.

No, Carter and co certainly knew where it was going. You'd have to be blind not to see where it was going. The problem is that they didn't want to get there. If it ever got there the show would simply be over; you can't have a show about two FBI agents running around the country solving paranormal crimes when the entire planet is desperately fighting a full scale alien invasion. They might have been able to re-tool it into some sort of war series but then it wouldn't be the X-Files anymore. So they kept postponing and pushing things back. They added more layers to the myth arc to compensate. Every year that the series was renewed was a year that they had no choice but to delay the inevitable alien invasion by piling more onto the myth arc.

But the standalones were all good, even if the mytharc became excessively convoluted

 

[TheMasterOfOrion]

Dollhouse day one, the only thing keeping it alive were Joss fanatics and a bunch of dump beancountes at Fox who decided it was smarter to end Terminator


Only one new show has been canceled outright — CW's The Beautiful Life, which lasted just two episodes — as fewer shows than usual have completely tanked. "There don't seem to be as many shows falling well below what was expected," says ABC scheduling chief Jeff Bader.
New shows typically get 13-episode test runs; if successful, they get the go-ahead by November for nine more, enough to last through May. The same applies to returning shows unveiled last spring: ABC's Castle won a full season Tuesday, while Fox's Lie to Me awaits word. NBC canceled Southland before the second season began.
Still other shows, such as NBC's Community and Mercy and ABC's The Forgotten, probably will stick around despite lower-than-hoped-for ratings because newly patient programmers hope they'll gradually attract more interest.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2009-10-20-hits-vs-flops_N.htm

 

[Bishbot]

Dollhouse day one, the only thing keeping it alive were Joss fanatics and a bunch of dump beancountes at Fox who decided it was smarter to end Terminator

So at which point do you think "Dollhouse" was a good show? None? If that's the case then this is just more of your standard brand of off-topic Whedon bashing. I know it's your favourite passtime, but start your own threads about it at least.