The ways of the Screen Writers Guild are dark and mysterious.But... why do they get credit for the STORY in MI:2 if it was only a "pitch"?
Moore and Braga vs. Orci and Kurtzman -- Who Do You Prefer?
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Same reason why the story for Empire Strikes Back came from George Lucas, but the script was written by Lawrence Kasdan?
I would think Moore and Braga had more to do than just pitch the story, though. Even if Robert Towne wrote the script, giving Towne a plot, a framework, characters to use, ideas to process, etc, is all part of the story, something Moore and Braga did
I'm reminded of Yesterday's Enterprise. The story is attributed to two writers (Ganino and Stillwell), but it took four other staffers (Moore and Behr included) to tweak the teleplay. Even though all four staffers are credited, the story is considered the baby and brainchild of the original two writers, to the point where Stillwell even published a behind the scenes book about the episode as well.
Although I enjoyed XI, I think All Good Things, Generations, and First Contact are better. So Braga and Moore, then.
They did do more than just pitch. They wrote a draft for the screenplay.
So this particular discussion can continue when somebody digs up M & B's draft and what Towne made of it.
Seen the difference between Darabont's and Koepp's screenplay for Indiana Jones 4? Same story, but whole different scripts.
But... why do they get credit for the STORY in MI:2 if it was only a "pitch"?
Same reason Brent Spiner got story credit for Nemesis, even though all he did was suggest the B-4 sub-plot.
Well this is how I see it
Braga and Moore: killed Kirk in Generations
Orci and Kurtzman: invalidated Generations through timetravel and alternate universes.
So I must conclude that Orci and Kurtzman Win.
Braga and Moore: killed Kirk in Generations
Orci and Kurtzman: invalidated Generations through timetravel and alternate universes.
So I must conclude that Orci and Kurtzman Win.
B&M anyday over the other 2.
As much as I dislike Voyager and Enterprise, Braga is credited on some of my favourite Trek episodes, as is Moore. Orci and Kurtzwhatever on the other hand haven't contributed anything to Star Trek beyond one mess of a movie (and I'm not fond of their other work either).
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Technically all Kasdan did was a dialogue polish on Empire. Lucas wrote the first draft which outlined all the action and he handed it off to Kasdan to redo the dialogue.
Return of the Jedi is much more Kasdan's than Empire was.
Which makes one wonder so very much if I-III would have been better with someone else handling dialogue, or if they still would have sunk under their poor plotting.
I don't see what good it will do. The original point about story vs. screenplay was how much credit is given to both positions. You seem to frame it as "one person does most of the writing, someone else gets all the credit," when really in Braga and RDM's case, like in IJ4 and ESB and Yesterday's Enterprise, there's more to it than just that.
After all, would Kasdan even make a script had Lucas not laid down the groundwork in the first place? Perhaps not, just as how Moore, Behr, Piller, and more wouldn't have much to work with had a fan not worked and reworked Yesterday's Enterprise. Unless you're a writer extraordinaire, you need both components, otherwise neither makes it to the final product.
Apart, BB and RDM's Trek work veers between great and patchy, but together they're responsible for some of the best that the franchise has to offer.
Orci and Kurtzman on the other hand have written a film with more plot holes and coincidences than the other 10 put together, no message, and just some pretty explosions with the occasional bone thrown to fans to convince them it is Trek (hey look, Spock said fascinating).
Orci and Kurtzman on the other hand have written a film with more plot holes and coincidences than the other 10 put together, no message, and just some pretty explosions with the occasional bone thrown to fans to convince them it is Trek (hey look, Spock said fascinating).
The ways of the Screen Writers Guild are dark and mysterious.But... why do they get credit for the STORY in MI:2 if it was only a "pitch"?
actually what they "pitched" would have had to make up a substantial part of the movie.
there are actual percentages established to get screen credit.
i just find the comparison odd...
braga and moore at the time of generations had been writing trek for years.
why not compare their earliest trek work.
whatever abrams was really into trek or not (by the way his dad and nicholas myer were really good friends .and wrath was abrams favorite trek film) orci very much was a trekkie.
and even if nemesis had made a ton of money it would still have been junk. the movie was just howling bad in parts.
I would actually like to point out that comparing Orci and Kurtzman to Moore and Braga doesn't make any sense seeing as Orci and Kurtzman did a TOS movie while Moore and Braga did the TNG movies also Orci and Kurtzman have so far only done ONE MOVIE, while Moore and Braga did two and several seasons on the show so that really isn't a fair comparison.
We´re not comparing their work on the shows, just the movies.
It´s fair to compare that.
Orci and Kurtzman.
I like Moore on his own, sometimes, when he has adult supervision (like on DS9, less so on BSG). By all appareances, Braga leans far too heavily on cliches and tired character types - Threshold and FlashForward have certain similar defects that make me highly suspicious of their common origin.
Good point. But I think I can still detect weaknesses in both Moore (creative but too undisciplined and incoherent) and Braga (too stilted, phony and cliched) regardless of the constraint they are under. (That requires bringing TV into the mix.)
I like Moore on his own, sometimes, when he has adult supervision (like on DS9, less so on BSG). By all appareances, Braga leans far too heavily on cliches and tired character types - Threshold and FlashForward have certain similar defects that make me highly suspicious of their common origin.
Good point. But I think I can still detect weaknesses in both Moore (creative but too undisciplined and incoherent) and Braga (too stilted, phony and cliched) regardless of the constraint they are under. (That requires bringing TV into the mix.)
I'm pretty sure that Moore and Braga have mentioned before how their story was essentially gutted and the finished film bears little resemblance to what they originally conceived and wrote.
EDIT: Found this interview with IGN
So, the retarded motorcycle chase (with a bike that mysteriously changes wheels) and the final fight scene weren't their work.
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