Marvel vs. DC Comics

[coolghoul]

If I was an exec at Disney who gets power over Marvel after the takeover goes through, the first thing I would do is fire Joe Quesada, Tom Brevroot and Steve Wacker. The first two for committing this travesty on Marvel's flagship character, the third for allowing a writer to play up a sexual assault on Peter's female roommate for laughs.

Btw, how many of these are happily married? (I know - a divorced or a single writer is perfectly capable of writing about a happily married superhero - but still asking...

The sexual assault thing, btw, for anybody wondering refers to the following storyline (as far as I can make it after following the story at scans_daily (scroll to Sep 17-18th and earlier for the scans and discussion) - Peter has a strictly platonic room-mate Michelle in the post OMD/BND Marvel universe. The chameleon masquerades as Peter Parker (not sure if the Chameleon knows that Peter's Spidey as I haven't read the issues - only relevant page scans) and then (in Peter Parker guise) has a make-out session with Michelle. He does other things too. Peter (the real one) as he's entering his apartment is ruminating in how he should thank the Chameleon as Chameleon-PeterParker has now done stuff so that MJ Watson is again on talking-terms with Peter Parker, when suddenly Michelle (wearing Peter's T-shirt and shorts) kisses him and tells him that he has to stop being late, if they are supposed to have a relationship - Peter goes all WTF - I hate Chamelon!

And the fans go ballistic with respect to two major things -

Chameleon has "raped" Michelle since the Chameleon was impersonating Peter Parker and there's an impression that they had sex (they disappear behind the kitchen island). And what really galls is that based on the "look" of things, all it takes is one little dalliance with ChamelonPeterParker for Michelle to now be completely smitten with The Virile Man. People are reading some racial overtones into it too - As soon as the white male has "introduced" the latina (Michelle) to The-Virile-Man, she's totally swooning at the thought of Peter Parker. And then Peter (in I think classic-Parker style) shows little concern for the girl who doesn't know she's been chameleon-raped ( a version of date raped) but is all angsty about how he'll have to deal with this complication to his life. Later on (in a following issue) it is revealed that they didn't have sex, just a make-out session so the fans shouldn't be calling it "rape".

The other thing that irritates fans is that it's being treated in a light-hearted comic-y fashion. Little "lovey" hearts in the artwork to show Michelle's infatuation - and some sitcom-like situations (Various girls that ChameleonPeterParker led on, arriving en masse at our hero's apartment) - hilarity ensues and fans get even more pissed.

 

[Ayelbourne]

Geeze...good thing I stopped reading.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

I'm a stalwart DC guy and always have been. I grew up in the '80s and DC had a lot of outstanding books in the mid- to late '80s (such as Alan Moore's Watchmen, Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, Keith Giffen and J.M. DeMatteis's Justice League, George Perez's Wonder Woman, Mike Grell's Green Arrow, Alan Grant's Detective Comics, John Ostrander's Suicide Squad, and Mike Baron and William Messner-Loeb's Flash) that cemented my fidelity to DC.

DC at its best offers an epic, expansive universe that allows for storytelling that ranges from retro to modern and from outsized flights of fantasy to gritty street-level drama, and that encompasses both old school heroics and the more modern "heroes with problems" characterization that Marvel pioneered in the '60s.

I also like that DC has supported such a broad range of characters and genres outside of superheroes. Vertigo in particular has been very important for the American comic book industry in broadening the scope of the medium.

When I read quite a bit of Marvel in the '80s there were a lot of characters I liked - particularly Spider-Man, Captain America, and Daredevil - but the Marvel Universe seemed awfully cramped and limited what with so many characters being jam-packed into New York City. In the late '80s DC's books jumped way ahead of Marvel's in terms of quality, and with so many books to follow I stopped reading Marvel on a regular basis in the early 90s. The interconnectedness of the universes makes it difficult in terms of time and money to follow both, so that's how things have remained for me since.

I have dipped into Marvel every now and then, particularly for books that are light on continuity and that can be read in isolation, such as Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-Men. I also read Civil War, which I didn't care for. The political allegory had all the subtlety of a sledgehammer and rather than write both sides fairly it was more Straw Man vs. Captain Blue America.

Also, the labored political allegory brought to mind questions that undermined the whole thing, such as: is there really a consitutional right to operate as a masked vigilante with no accountability, and would the left-wing be the ones to champion such a right? In the real world that be a no on both counts of course. In fact there would be broad bipartisan consensus against masked vigilantism. The fact that superheroes operate with secret identities and with no real legal authority is one of the tropes of superhero comics that doesn't hold up when you invite real world logic in, so in the context of an ongoing universe where that trope is a central feature it's best not to shine a light on it or your superhero universe can end up looking pretty silly.

Apart from superhero comics, I also have a great affinity for the Franco-Belgian comics that I grew up reading (in their English translations): Tintin, Asterix, and Lucky Luke.

 

[Ceridwen]

Overall, I'm a DC girl. I love the escapism, the fantastical nature of it all. The galaxy-spanning Green Lantern Corps, the ongoing battles between the Gods of Antiquity and the New Gods of the Fourth World, even DC's street level villains are big and colorful. I mean, why be a mob boss (The Kingpin, who is admittedly pretty cool) when you can be The Clown Prince of Crime? Plus, they have Wonder Woman, and she will always be my favorite.

Also, Marvel's push to be "realistic" is often times swung too far in the wrong direction. Honestly, I think the heroes should just let Galactus eat the damn planet, given how absolutely abominable the citizenry are. This is a populace that will cheer on the murder of mutants, that will mob Captain America at the drop of a hat, that reviles Spider-Man yet loves and forgives their mass-murdering overlord, Norman Osborn. I really don't get it. When it comes to the Marvel universe, Magneto was right.

Now, there have certainly been periods when Marvel hooked me. I loved what was happening at Marvel earlier this decade. In particular, Ultimate Marvel had me thrilled at the beginning, though god that universe has become so depressing that I've found myself selling my old books. I also really like Incredible Hercules and Son of Hulk, but that's probably because I'm a bigger fan of fantasy comics than I am of superhero ones.

 

[Thrall]

This is a populace that will cheer on the murder of mutants, that will mob Captain America at the drop of a hat, that reviles Spider-Man yet loves and forgives their mass-murdering overlord, Norman Osborn. I really don't get it. When it comes to the Marvel universe, Magneto was right.

Well...The Quesadaverse anyway. Don't call it The Marvel Universe. That died years ago.

I also read Civil War, which I didn't care for. The political allegory had all the subtlety of a sledgehammer and rather than write both sides fairly it was more Straw Man vs. Captain Blue America.

As far as the bias towards Captain America goes, I understand the criticism of not showing both sides fairly. But, no matter what, Cap was going to be the hero in the eyes of the fans. Because:

1)The Marvel Universe is all about the rebel and the outcast. Spider-Man, The X-Men, The Hulk, The Punisher, Daredevil, etc. The most popular characters are the ones who are anti-establishment and outcasts from society. There for, The Anti-Regs were going to be thought of as the good guys in the eyes of the fans no matter what.

2)It was basically just a popularity contest. Everyone knows who Captain America is. Iron Man was not as well known until Robert Downey Jr. Cap is also the Superman of The Marvel Universe, so his side was going to have a lot of clout based on that reason. Also the fact that all of the cool heroes were Anti-Reg didn't help matters either.

3)Based on the concept alone, Iron Man couldn't be anything other then a bad guy and Cap a good guy. You basically had a bunch of Government stormtroopers going around killing or imprisoning, without due process, anyone who wouldn't join them and follow their orders without question. You had Tony and his guys turn on their friends and brothers, rather then fight beside them like they had always done. And they were doing all of this to everyone's childhood hero's like Captain America and Spider-Man. So of course the story is going to be biased towards Cap. Sure Tony was probably right. But it was completely undercut by the the side he was on and the way he went about doing things.

 

[23skidoo]

DC got me back into reading comics again after a nearly 10-year layoff. This was about 5 years ago. I just can't get into Marvel Comics these days, and part of that is I feel they've been playing catch up with what DC has been doing, both in terms of characterization and in terms of "event" storytelling. Pretty much the only thing Marvel has done recently that hadn't been done months or years earlier by DC was that weird Zombies thing. Hell, Marvel's even started numbering its multiverse. And the whole "death of Captain America" thing had zero impact considering DC had already done the same basic idea with the death of Superman (and no one expects Captain America to stay dead).

I also find the DC characters to have more depth and interest to them. Part of that is due to the fact we have characters who have been going more than 70 years, but even newer characters just seem to have more edge to them than Marvel.

Marvel these days seems to be about high-strung heroes and big action sequences and splash panels. DC has a lot of that, too, but the storylines hold my attention more than Marvel's.

Marvel's advantage these days is its ability to get live-action movies made at a more frequent clip than DC/Warners, and with the Disney takeover it'll probably become easier. However DC's animated movies have as a whole been a lot more entertaining than most of the live-action Marvel output.

Alex

 

[Othello]

While I don't read comics today I certainly used to and I vote for DC all the way baby!! Growing up I bought Superman, Green Lantern, The Flash, Batman, Aquaman and more on a regular basis. I occassionally bought the Hulk, Spiderman and Captain America comics.

 

[Trent Roman]

Also, Marvel's push to be "realistic" is often times swung too far in the wrong direction. Honestly, I think the heroes should just let Galactus eat the damn planet, given how absolutely abominable the citizenry are. This is a populace that will cheer on the murder of mutants, that will mob Captain America at the drop of a hat, that reviles Spider-Man yet loves and forgives their mass-murdering overlord, Norman Osborn. I really don't get it. When it comes to the Marvel universe, Magneto was right.

I'm not sure if you saying that you think it unrealistic, or that it's gone too far in being realistic? If anything, I find myself thinking the opposite, really. Cheering on murder, no surprise there; we've seen it with the civil rights movements of recent memory, African-Americans and homosexuals. Embracing Osborne, also not hard to see: Secret Invasion was a catastrophic event at par with 9/11, after which the country embraced Bush. What gets to me if the whole 'sliding time scale' thing the universe has going on, such that 40+ years of disasters, battle royales and supervillany are all cramed into a ten-year time period 'in-universe'. With that kind of constant mayham and catastrophes, and the concomittant push for security at all costs that often accompanies it, I'm surprised there's a civil society left in the Marvel universe; rather than becoming completely militarized under a strongman (or succession of strongmen).

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Random_Spock]

I don't mind DC comics... mainly for Batman ones. But I'm mostly a Marvel fan myself. Spiderman, X-Men, etc.

They tend to grab me more in terms of storylines and all that.

 

[Ceridwen]

Also, Marvel's push to be "realistic" is often times swung too far in the wrong direction. Honestly, I think the heroes should just let Galactus eat the damn planet, given how absolutely abominable the citizenry are. This is a populace that will cheer on the murder of mutants, that will mob Captain America at the drop of a hat, that reviles Spider-Man yet loves and forgives their mass-murdering overlord, Norman Osborn. I really don't get it. When it comes to the Marvel universe, Magneto was right.

I'm not sure if you saying that you think it unrealistic, or that it's gone too far in being realistic?

Both, actually. On the one hand, it is unrealistic. It tries really hard to be topical and relevant, but at the end of the day, everything gets boiled back down to a black and white problem that can be beat up. It pretends to explore the ramifications of these giant events, but at the end of the day it remains our world with tights and lasers. It's confused "reality" with "headlines," and in reality there are, occasionally, good people around.

And on the other hand, it's entirely too realistic. Cuz, you're right. We had eight years of the American public trading their liberties for security (and I'm not sure we're really done with that). My friends, partners and I have all been threatened or attacked more than once, without a lot of recourse for it afterward. I have to live through this stuff. Why do I want to read a comic book about it, when that comic book isn't going to be insightful or empowering in any way?

 

[Galactus]

Are really comparing George Bush to Norman Osborn? You have to be kidding? First Luthor, now Osborn?

 

[TemporalFlux]

Are really comparing George Bush to Norman Osborn? You have to be kidding? First Luthor, now Osborn?

I can see Bush as Osborn; for all of Osborn's alleged intelligence, his insane nature has most often made him come across as quite less than genius.

I am surprised we haven't seen something circulating the 'net, though. I mean, we have Obama as the Joker; someone should photoshop up a pic of Cheney as Luthor and title the team up image as "Injustice Gang".

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

Spider Man, actually has been surprisingly good after what happened with OMD.

 

[Ayelbourne]

^^
Only...it isn't Spider-Man anymore.
It's just some freak who I don't wanna read about.

 

[Forbin]

I guess it's supposed to be more like the classic, pre-marriage, pre-adult Spidey.
It's a major step backwards, far as I'm concerned.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I went with DC. Marvel is always with the 'in crowd'. I hate traveling with the 'in' crowd, so I go with DC.

And if Sheldon on BIG BANG THEORY prefers DC over marvel, which he does, then who are we to argue???

The JUSTICE LEAGUE of AMERICA would whup up on any Marvel team...and I mean ANY!!!!

And...the best boobs in comic are in DC...Power Girl!!!

Rob

 

[Forbin]

I don;'t think we can properly decide that until Power Girl and Spider Woman have a nude Jello fight.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I don;'t think we can properly decide that until Power Girl and Spider Woman have a nude Jello fight.

paging Marv Wolfman...and Bob Guccioni

Rob

 

[Admiral2]

I went with DC. Marvel is always with the 'in crowd'. I hate traveling with the 'in' crowd, so I go with DC.

So you'd rather be with the icon worshippers. Okee-dokee.

And if Sheldon on BIG BANG THEORY prefers DC over marvel, which he does, then who are we to argue???

Those of us who frakkin' despise "Big Bang Theory" strenuously object!

The JUSTICE LEAGUE of AMERICA would whup up on any Marvel team...and I mean ANY!!!!

The Fantastic Four has taken on GODS and won. I'd put Reed Richards' brain up against any JLA roster you want to send at him and bet heavily on Marvel's First Family.

And...the best boobs in comic are in DC...Power Girl!!!

Right. And I suppose Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk are flat-chested.

 

[Demiurge]

For a long time I'd have to say I preferred DC, but in the last decade it's swung the other way.

At first I really didn't care for the Civil War arcs, because so many of the characters seemed to be acting out of character. However, with the Secret Invasion, I saw that pay off, and I really appreciated the guts to do that particular story when you know you might have alienated your fan base.

I also like the Marvel spin off universes a lot, such as the Ultimates, Squadron Supreme, and the alternate time lines like Days of Future Past, Age of Apocalypse and House of M.

I still love DC, and I hear great things about the current GL run which I should pick up. But Infinite Crisis was a complete waste - I think there was a good story in there somewhere, but it was so completely ineptly told that I didn't bother to explore deeper to find out.

As it stands it depends on the writers, so I follow that more than I do the brands themselves.