It's perfectly logical to judge the quality of FX by the standards of the time in which they're produced, not by the standards of FX produced 25 years ago.
Wolverine DVD on shelves today...
- Thread starter T'Baio
- Start date
Uh oh. T'Baio says it is a fact. I guess that is it then. 
Opinions aren't facts. The only fact there is that your opinion is you didn't like the movie.
Oh, and bone claws don't slice through everything. Sure, they go through flesh fine and he was used to that. But cast iron radiators and porcelain sinks? Not so much. His new claws were much sharper and stronger than what he was used to. And where he could rest on the back of his hands with his claws out before, because of the new edge on the top side of the claws he did not have before, he made those clumsy mistakes. It was like going from using a boken to a katana. A lot is the same, but you have to recognize and respect that edge of the blade the old weapon did not have. I could see that and understood without it being spelled out for me. But, I guess not all people have such experience with weaponry like that where his looking at the new edges was all I needed to understand it.
As for the old couple, I saw their actions partly based on a son they had apparently lost that Logan seemed to remind them of, given all their references to him, and partly fear, and partly wanting to help an apparently decent man in need of help. They really didn't know what to make of Logan. He obviously startled them with bringing out the half of the sink he sliced. But he was apologizing and promising to pay for it. You tend to get a bit of leeway with older folks when you show some personal responsibility. Plus, they never saw his claws, so they would have no idea why to call him a freak. Strange shit was happening around him, but he was a man in need of help in their eyes.
As I said in my initial review, this is no award meriting film. I found it entertaining enough as a rental. I went in expecting a popcorn film, and that is much of what I got. That and your opinion of films, T'Baio, seems to always be the opposite of mine. You have no taste for fun films in my eyes, and I have no taste in yours. Your opinion is not the end all, be all of movie reviews. Deal with it.
I come from the old school. In my lifetime I have seen huge leaps and jumps in visual effects. Back in the old days, you had to suspend your disbelief when you saw an effect that was obviously an effect. Like that mist dragon from Conan I mentioned earlier. You kids today are too spoiled and don't realize how good you have it and bitch and complain when something isn't perfect.
Opinions aren't facts. The only fact there is that your opinion is you didn't like the movie.
Oh, and bone claws don't slice through everything. Sure, they go through flesh fine and he was used to that. But cast iron radiators and porcelain sinks? Not so much. His new claws were much sharper and stronger than what he was used to. And where he could rest on the back of his hands with his claws out before, because of the new edge on the top side of the claws he did not have before, he made those clumsy mistakes. It was like going from using a boken to a katana. A lot is the same, but you have to recognize and respect that edge of the blade the old weapon did not have. I could see that and understood without it being spelled out for me. But, I guess not all people have such experience with weaponry like that where his looking at the new edges was all I needed to understand it.
As for the old couple, I saw their actions partly based on a son they had apparently lost that Logan seemed to remind them of, given all their references to him, and partly fear, and partly wanting to help an apparently decent man in need of help. They really didn't know what to make of Logan. He obviously startled them with bringing out the half of the sink he sliced. But he was apologizing and promising to pay for it. You tend to get a bit of leeway with older folks when you show some personal responsibility. Plus, they never saw his claws, so they would have no idea why to call him a freak. Strange shit was happening around him, but he was a man in need of help in their eyes.
As I said in my initial review, this is no award meriting film. I found it entertaining enough as a rental. I went in expecting a popcorn film, and that is much of what I got. That and your opinion of films, T'Baio, seems to always be the opposite of mine. You have no taste for fun films in my eyes, and I have no taste in yours. Your opinion is not the end all, be all of movie reviews. Deal with it.
I come from the old school. In my lifetime I have seen huge leaps and jumps in visual effects. Back in the old days, you had to suspend your disbelief when you saw an effect that was obviously an effect. Like that mist dragon from Conan I mentioned earlier. You kids today are too spoiled and don't realize how good you have it and bitch and complain when something isn't perfect.
I really don't know shit about shit when it comes to Marvel continuity, characters, canon, whatever. Most of what I know about the X-Men is from the movies. So it's not like I went into the theater preparing to go into a neckbeard rage the instant something was changed.
No, I went into the theater and I was bored out of my skull. Wolverine isn't even a competently made film -- from Gavin Hood's mediocrity as a director to David Benioff being a shitty writer, it's a movie that didn't really need to be made. The plotting is awful, and the movie's only saving graces are Hugh Jackman and Liev Schreiber. If not for them, the movie would be completely dreadful.
And, yes, the special effects are terrible. Don't go on one of your "oh, you kids don't know what you've got" straw man arguments, Dagman -- I love Star Trek V, horrible Bran Ferren effects and all. But the effects work, from the greenscreening to the horrible CG claws (really -- practical claws worked just fine for the first two X-Men films), was shoddy. It was really just poorly done.
(Oh, and by the way -- T'Baio adored the new Star Trek.)
No, I went into the theater and I was bored out of my skull. Wolverine isn't even a competently made film -- from Gavin Hood's mediocrity as a director to David Benioff being a shitty writer, it's a movie that didn't really need to be made. The plotting is awful, and the movie's only saving graces are Hugh Jackman and Liev Schreiber. If not for them, the movie would be completely dreadful.
And, yes, the special effects are terrible. Don't go on one of your "oh, you kids don't know what you've got" straw man arguments, Dagman -- I love Star Trek V, horrible Bran Ferren effects and all. But the effects work, from the greenscreening to the horrible CG claws (really -- practical claws worked just fine for the first two X-Men films), was shoddy. It was really just poorly done.
(Oh, and by the way -- T'Baio adored the new Star Trek.)
I grew up in the 80s with those same films (so if you're including me in "you kids today" that's an erroneous assumption on your part), and I still appreciate those films and don't have a problem suspending disbelief. But in any time period you have FX of varying quality. That was true in the 80s and it's true today. And if a filmmaker is given a massive amount of money to make a film then there's really no excuse for shoddy production values. It's not a matter of being spoiled. It's a matter of holding filmmakers responsible for whether they can make good use of the resources made available to them and deliver quality work.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
Logan and Victor fight in wars because they were adrenaline junkies? Logan doesn't want to massacre unarmed civilians, but since he has a mutant healing factor any normal human he fights might as well be unarmed, regardless of their aggression (or lack of) toward him.
I agree the third act was half-assed.
No kidding. By the 7th minute the movie is already at the part where Wade is in the elevator.
To me that should have happened about 30 or 40 minutes in. What I find odd is that even at an hour and 47 minutes, it felt like it packed alot in.
I guess the reason would be is that things dragged on and it felt longer than expected.
Yes, Deadpool eventually evolved into one of the better minor Marvel characters. It just took awhile. His first appearance was alright, but they improved on that greatly once he got his first two miniseries.
Put me in the thumbs down column for this movie. X-Men & X2 were works of genius. X-Men: The Last Stand had a lot of problems but it had its share of good parts. But Wolverine is just kinda crappy. It doesn't even come close to the limited quality of X-Men: The Last Stand.
There aren't any characters of particular interest here. Gambit & Deadpool are kinda cool but they're not in it nearly enough to justify it. Danny Huston isn't nearly as good a Col. Stryker as Brian Cox was. And while Hugh Jackman is still solid as Wolverine, it's nothing spectacular and nothing we haven't already seen in the previous 3 films. I think it was a pretty unusual choice to make a spin-off about the lead character from the previous films.
Wolverine also lacks the social metaphors that allowed the other 3 X-Men movies to masquerade as legitimate science fiction as well as summer popcorn films. And it's not like I was burning with curiousity to learn about Wolverine's backstory. We already learned everything we really needed to know from X2. This was well worn territory.
So without any surprising new plot revelations or social metaphors or interesting supporting characters, all we're left with is a series of scenes of Hugh Jackman kicking ass. That's great and all, but the previous movies were able to give us that PLUS all of the other stuff. I would have much preferred a full cast X-Men 4 sequel that picked things up where X-Men: The Last Stand left off.
Well, the Gambit appearance was never a secret. That was in the trailers from the beginning.
But the Professor Xavier cameo is a surprising spoiler in the TV ads. Heck, he gets more screentime in the TV ads than he did in the actual movie. It reminds me of all of the DVD ads of The Incredible Hulk that put a lot of emphasis on the 30 second Tony Stark cameo that had absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the film.
There aren't any characters of particular interest here. Gambit & Deadpool are kinda cool but they're not in it nearly enough to justify it. Danny Huston isn't nearly as good a Col. Stryker as Brian Cox was. And while Hugh Jackman is still solid as Wolverine, it's nothing spectacular and nothing we haven't already seen in the previous 3 films. I think it was a pretty unusual choice to make a spin-off about the lead character from the previous films.
Wolverine also lacks the social metaphors that allowed the other 3 X-Men movies to masquerade as legitimate science fiction as well as summer popcorn films. And it's not like I was burning with curiousity to learn about Wolverine's backstory. We already learned everything we really needed to know from X2. This was well worn territory.
So without any surprising new plot revelations or social metaphors or interesting supporting characters, all we're left with is a series of scenes of Hugh Jackman kicking ass. That's great and all, but the previous movies were able to give us that PLUS all of the other stuff. I would have much preferred a full cast X-Men 4 sequel that picked things up where X-Men: The Last Stand left off.
And Storm, and Cyclops, and Gambit...I see they are already spoiling the surprise Patrick Stewart appearance in the TV trailers for the DVD.
Well, the Gambit appearance was never a secret. That was in the trailers from the beginning.
But the Professor Xavier cameo is a surprising spoiler in the TV ads. Heck, he gets more screentime in the TV ads than he did in the actual movie. It reminds me of all of the DVD ads of The Incredible Hulk that put a lot of emphasis on the 30 second Tony Stark cameo that had absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the film.
In all fairness, David Benioff didn't really have a lot to do with the script we saw. David Ayer had a crack at the script (but was uncredited) and Skip Woods, talented writer behind such classics as Swordfish and Hitman, was the last writer on the project. Benioff's script was good. Much better than what we got.
I think I remember the after-credits Deadpool scene. Was there a Japan scene in the theatrical version too?Well, this blows - I get the dvd from Netflix today, single-disc version (I hate how they do that), and it's got the Deadpool post-credits scene but not the Japan one. Total fail...
I think we should go back in time, grab a young Lance Henriksen and just start the whole fucking thing over again.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
I think I remember the after-credits Deadpool scene. Was there a Japan scene in the theatrical version too?Well, this blows - I get the dvd from Netflix today, single-disc version (I hate how they do that), and it's got the Deadpool post-credits scene but not the Japan one. Total fail...
Yes, the theatrical version I saw had the Japan scene. Which is just Logan sitting at a bar and two lines, and not all that interesting for the time it took to sit through the credits.
And I grew up in the 70s actually. I was there to see Wolverine first introduced in The Incredible Hulk comic and saw him move to the new X-Men the following year. So I have something of a history with the character. (One of the first comics I ever read was Amazing Spider-Man #100 where he grew four extra arms at the end. Hooked me on comics on the spot. I even remember where and when I bought the book.) And I remember television shows that would have killed to have the effects from this movie, such as when watching the Six Million Dollar Man when it first aired.
So yeah, to me you're a kid. Sorry about that. But everyone is a kid to someone or some era. And I am likely the old fart to the current generation. Ce la vie.
For me, when I see the effects possible today, I see them through the eyes of that kid from the seventies. Who always enjoyed those shows for what they were even while I noticed effects I wished were better but accepted anyway. Because I have seen so much worse in my time. I tend to view effects as what the intent was behind them, and am quite used to glossing over imperfect ones for the sake of that intent. So for me, perfect special effects aren't necessary for an enjoyable movie experience.
Weren't there three different post-credits scenes (plus the one where Stryker is arrested part of the way through the credits)? Fox attached different scenes to different prints in order to get butts in the seats (along with their, "the online version was just the much shorter workprint" ploy).
I actually bought the Director's Cut of Elektra, but I wouldn't buy Wolverine- it's got a near zero babe factor.
Rented it, watched it, will forget it...
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