Trek romances - the good, the bad, and the boring?

[Random_Spock]

The good: Riker and Troi
The bad: Scotty and Uhura
The boring: Odo and Kira

Agreed there on Riker and Troi. I was a huge shipper of those two back in the day . Such a wonderful relationship there.

Next Generation and Voyager handled romances well in my opinion.

What do you think? Was Trek ever good in portraying romance and/or sex? Did it have too much, or too little of it?

I think it was decent. Most of anything that had to do with sex and romance was implied for the most part. A good balance there.

 

[Rush Limborg]

As a general rule, I usually didn't have problems with Trek romances. There are some exceptions, but I'd have to rack my brain to remember some....

Here are my various thoughts:

Kira/Odo: Now...I may be in the minority here, but I think it was pretty rewarding to see them come together. There was a lot of build-up, close calls, etc., and...I feel for Odo, in his struggle to do something about his feelings....

I kinda agree that they "toned it down" a bit too much after they came together. Still...their story in the final episode arc removed any such concers...and their final scene together was excellently written and acted.

Troi/Riker: Good...when we saw it. For the most part, they're just friends. When we see evidence of romance, though, it's pretty rewarding.

Jadzia/Worf: Pretty good. I kinda disagree with Nerys here, in that I rarely saw Jadzia actually diss Worf's values or culture. Recall that she actually sees herself as something of a Klingon.... I'd think this is just "poking fun" on her part. And Worf understands this, hence Ezri's line in "Strange Bedfellows", about Worf finding Jadzia's barbs to be "endearing".

I think they're two of a kind, frankly--or at least, they fit together pretty well. Only a woman like Jadzia could be strong-willed enough to provide an endearing, "invigorating" challenge to Worf--and only a man like Worf could be "warrior" enough to have Jadzia desire to submit to him....

Keiko/O'Brien: Okay. At first, Keiko's attitude drove me crazy--for the reasons everyone mentioned. She was this close to deserving a brand of "whining JERK!"

Eventually, though, the writers wised up, and with "Fascination", they finally resolved this (with O'Brien being victorious, and Keiko putting on the dress, and....) and from that point on, their relationship was a WHOLE lot better.

Kirk/Rand: This one hasn't been brought up, but...I REALLY wish the writers had done something with this. There were so many hints of what MIGHT have been.... *sigh*

Trip/T'Pol: Opposites attract, in this case. Gotta love the irony--the pair that used to hate each other's guts...eventually get together. They have some nice moments, those two--including in the books....

Garak/Ziyal: Good to a point. Wish the writers had developed it more--the man of secrets, struggling not to open up to the girl who sees within him something more....

Worf/Troi: Didn't care for it. There were some nice moments of humor about the possibilities...that was it. Glad it didn't really go anywhere....



Ezri/Bashir: Probably my all-time favorite. The chemistry here was PERFECT! These two were perfect for each other--they complete each other, in a sense.

I think the writers did some pretty nice build-up in eps like "Chrysalis", "Protigal Daughter", and "Field of Fire", where the two, in various scenes, basically help each other out, and build each other up when down. And it's well handeled how they finally come together--their intial awkwardness, their joking "agreement" to stay friends--and, of course, their memorable scene in the turbolift....

I really think, then, that in this case at least, the romantic chemistry DID truly shine. It's a shame their romance was only seen for 1 1/2 episodes....

(And also a BIG shame that Mike and Andy somehow felt the need to...ah, well.... *sigh*)

 

[T'Girl]

[/QUOTE] On a related note- regular butt-bumping without the slipery stuff is conducive to health problems ...[/QUOTE]

You mean: The Klingon dual azure orbs of agonies?

Laying aside romance for a moment, the best lover has got to be Data. Come on girls, the guy's a MACHINE!

 

[Pemmer Harge]

I'm another person who liked Miles and Keiko. They had their ups and downs and got pretty grouchy about things sometimes, but they loved each other and they had a fairly believable adult relationship. I also think Sisko and Kasidy were cool. It was great to see him finally find someone after all the pain he'd been through.

 

[Tallis Rhul]

I don't quite know where people get this strange idea that Miles and Keiko's relationship was abusive from. If you think that's abusive then God help you should you ever end up in a truly abusive relationship. She doesn't actually whine that much, she puts up with an inconvenient and sometimes dangerous atmosphere to support Miles and bring up her family, and when she arrives on DS9 there is absolutely bugger all for her to do, other than try to make a go of running a school for a load of kids who really don't want to be there.

She did make the decision, granted, but she did it as a concession for Miles because it was a promotion. She tried to stick with it and not say anything until in the end it became too much and it caused tension. Just like it would do in real life. And let me ask this question, for an abusive relationship, how stormy were things in season 7? They weren't. They were pretty peachy, despite Miles being on the front line all the time.

If you doubt her intentions towards him then watch Armageddon Game. She's beside herself when she thinks something's happened to him, and that wasn't the only time.

 

[Whoa Nellie]

I've always seen the Picard/Vash relationship, wonderfully written by Ira Steven Behr, as an homage to the great romantic film pairings of the 40's. The very compelling 'battle of wills' dynamic to the Picard/Vash relationship is reminiscent of Bogart and Bacall in the classic movie "To Have and Have Not." Vash is Bacall to Picard's Bogart. Vash's brazenness complements Picard's more sedate personality perfectly. She is the ideal foil for Picard's straight man. The characterizations and relationship dynamics between Picard and Vash makes this pairing a pure joy to watch.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

 

[PSGarak]

For the record, I didn't say Keiko was abusive of Miles. I said she communicated disrespectfully, and she did. I've been in and still am in a long-term relationship, and I can tell you if my spouse talked to me that way on a regular basis or vice versa, we would not still be married. Apparently, Miles is a lot more tolerant than I am.

 

[T'Girl]

I wish they had let Andrew Robinson have his way about portraying Garak as bisexual. The friendship chemistry he had with Bashir was more interesting than any romantic pairing on that show. I wouldn't have even cared if Bashir didn't feel the same way because he was straight. Just allowing that issue to be aired would've been nice. Most portrayals of bisexuals I've seen in tv and film are either horribly campy and over the top, like the MU characters, or make them come across as manipulative psychopaths like in Basic Instinct. As someone who is bisexual and has known it pretty much all of my life, I find such characterizations insulting. I think Robinson would've handled it in a mature, interesting way, and I would've loved to see it.

EDIT: I think the reason I find the characterizations insulting is because so often film and tv writers use bisexuality as shorthand for "perverted" or "twisted", much like some authors will turn a character into a rapist for no other reason than to show that character is evil. It's lazy, and it's unnecessary. There are other ways to establish that without maligning an entire sexual orientation.

I think that could've been very interesting to see how they'd deal with a friendship, to see how Garak would deal with the realization that Bashir was incapable of returning his romantic feelings. If that could be done in a mature way, that would've been very interesting.

I agree, but that said, you - or a shows writer - can't be afraid to make a villian gay. Because then you're going to far towards political correctness.

One of my favorite sci-fi novel is "Dune," the chief villian, Baron Valdamir Harkonnan, is a homosexual (also a pedophile and a sadist) having him be such in no way harms those of my sexual orientation.

I don't find gay psych or evil charactors insulting in the least. We are the good people and the bad.

So maybe I don't agree

 

[PSGarak]

I agree, but that said, you - or a shows writer - can't be afraid to make a villian gay. Because then you're going to far towards political correctness.

One of my favorite sci-fi novel is "Dune," the chief villian, Baron Valdamir Harkonnan, is a homosexual (also a pedophile and a sadist) having him be such in no way harms those of my sexual orientation.

I don't find gay psych or evil charactors insulting in the least. We are the good people and the bad.

So maybe I don't agree

Oh, no, not at all. I love the Dune series, too. Herbert, and his son in carrying on the series in later books and prequels, created a thoroughly loathsome villain in the Baron. They didn't use his being a homosexual as shorthand for "evil" or "twisted". It was an incidental detail about the character that wasn't given primary focus or play.

I don't automatically find making a villain gay or bisexual offensive. I find it offensive if that's the primary way the writers try to use to drive that point home, and there are way too many examples out there where they do just that.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^I agree. To use homosexuality as "proof" of evil just isn't cool. (Regardless of my social-political views--and you all know them by now--still, such bashing is, quite frankly, intolerable. And I'm far from the only right-winger who feels that way....)

To use it as a characteristic (i.e. a matter of happenstance), is perfectly fine--as was the case with Intendant Kira. There, it was just an example of "she recognizes no limits for herself", or something like that.

 

[PSGarak]

^I agree. To use homosexuality as "proof" of evil just isn't cool. (Regardless of my social-political views--and you all know them by now--still, such bashing is, quite frankly, intolerable. And I'm far from the only right-winger who feels that way....)

To use it as a characteristic (i.e. a matter of happenstance), is perfectly fine--as was the case with Intendant Kira. There, it was just an example of "she recognizes no limits for herself", or something like that.

Also, with MU Kira's attraction to the regular Kira, it came across to me as a hugely narcissistic thing far more than a gay thing. I got the sense from MU Kira that the very pinnacle of a turn on would be to have sex with herself, which was sort of how she viewed Kira, an ego extension rather than a separate person.

 

[Whodey30]

First of all, lets keep in mind that TNG was in the early 90's. Sex on TV was still basically limited to late night shows, certainly not Prime Time TV. Second, they did a great job of slipping in inuendo into most everything that Riker did!! Remember the episode where he and Ro got it on because no one remembered anyone else? Any of Troi's relationships were lame, but Paris/Torres was funny because it reminds me of most people that I know. Seven of Nine was crazy hot in those skin tight suits, and T'Pol in Enterprise was fully naked in at least three episodes. Star Trek is not necessarily a series for overt sexuality. Maybe it could have been addressed more, but by this point, we are all accustomed to the way it is and too much sex seems weird. IE Enterprise. Some of the attempts they made seemed uncomfortable becuase I am not used to seeing that in a Star Trek epsiode.

 

[Mareika]

The best romance for me is the one and only relationsship between Janeway and Chakotay- J/C for ever!

I didn`t like the Worf/Troi romance.

 

[Mach5]

The best romance for me is the one and only relationsship between Janeway and Chakotay- J/C for ever!

Fan fiction doesn't count.

 

[DevilEyes]

The best romance for me is the one and only relationsship between Janeway and Chakotay- J/C for ever!

Fan fiction doesn't count.

It was heavily ship-teased in the show, so it's not like the fans made it up or that it belongs just to fan fiction. The majority of fans seem to be prefer Janeway/Chakotay to Seven/Chakotay , which brings up the question, are Star Trek writers sometimes so clueless that they pick unconvincing or otherwise bad pairings over those that had more chemistry and could have worked better?

 

[Mach5]

The best romance for me is the one and only relationsship between Janeway and Chakotay- J/C for ever!

Fan fiction doesn't count.

It was heavily ship-teased in the show, so it's not like the fans made it up or that it belongs just to fan fiction. The majority of fans seem to be prefer Janeway/Chakotay to Seven/Chakotay , which brings up the question, are Star Trek writers sometimes so clueless that they pick unconvincing or otherwise bad pairings over those that had more chemistry and could have worked better?

What I find interesting is that in three out of five Star Trek shows a lot of fans wanted to see the captain and the first officer get together (TOS, VOY, ENT). What's with that?

 

[Anika Hanson]

The good:
Worf/Jadzia
Paris/Torres
Picard/Vash
T'pol/Trip

The bad:
Kes and nelix
Seven/Chakotay
Kira/Odo

The Boring:
Troi/Riker
Sisco/Cassidy

 

[T'Girl]

The best romance for me is the one and only relationsship between Janeway and Chakotay- J/C for ever!

Fan fiction doesn't count.

Since when. Both fan fiction and pro fiction are the best trek we're getting right now. And don't throw that canon-crap at me. Want true charactor development? It's not on the screen, same with detailed plots, believeable villians and new players. The fan produced videos, while not there yet, are getting better.

Fan fiction IS star trek.

 

[Mach5]

Since when. Both fan fiction and pro fiction are the best trek we're getting right now. And don't throw that canon-crap at me.

Have I just been accused of being a canonista?
Don't worry T'Girl, to me, "canon" is just a word.

Want true charactor development? It's not on the screen, same with detailed plots, believeable villians and new players. The fan produced videos, while not there yet, are getting better.

Fan fiction IS star trek.

To those 0.05% of trekkers who actually read it.

 

[Cyke101]

The Bad: Riker with, well, anyone. Does he really have to try and shove his teeth through a closed mouth whenever he kisses a poor lady? Talk about pressing too hard.