I'm a mean, bad Mother...

[K'Ehleyr]

Thanks for the explanation cultcross. I've been a member here now for over seven years and I still haven't been able to get a good grasp on how the English education system works. It seems so completely different from how things work here. So every little bit of additional knowledge helps.

Well if you're really interested, I'm awake too late and drank 3 coffees so can't sleep
Here goes. Things are somewhat complicated by the fact some older systems still operate in some parts. What follows is the most common system, and the one the current government would describe as 'our education system'

We start school in the Academic year we turn 5. This year is called 'Reception'.
The year you turn 6 is 'Year One'
The year you turn 7 is 'Year Two'
8 is 'Year Three'
9 is 'Year four'
10 is 'Year five'
11 is 'Year six'

The above years constitute 'primary school'

The year you turn 12 is 'year seven'
13 is 'year eight'
14 is 'year nine'
15 is 'year ten'
16 is 'year eleven'

The above years constitute 'secondary school'. During years 10 and 11, pupils study for exams (GCSEs) in a range of subjects, sometimes up to 12 or 13 of them. These exams are graded A*-G, with A*-C being 'pass grades'. The exams are taken at the end of Year 11, and represent the end of legally mandatory education.
More and more pupils however stay on at school (or move to a dedicated college) to do two more years, colloquially termed 'the Sixth Form'. This name refers to an older method of naming the year groups, and isn't actually the 'sixth' anything anymore.

The year you turn 17 is 'year 12' or 'The Lower Sixth'
18 is 'year 13' or 'The Upper Sixth'

During these years you study a reduced number of subjects, usually three to five. At the end of year 13 you take more exams called 'A Levels'. The A stands for 'Advanced'. These are graded A-G, with A-E being 'pass grades'. An A* grade is due for introduction next year. Your grades in these exams are used to apply to University places, in a similar manner to SAT scores in the US.

To confuse things further, we too have exams called 'SATs', taken in Years 2, 6 and 9. These are standardised national tests, however they bear absolutely no significance for the pupil, the scores mean next to nothing. They are used primarily for compiling school league tables. As a result, they are controversial and a number of schools, including all those in Wales, now refuse to run them.

Some secondary schools are selective (academically), and are called 'Grammar Schools'. Those not selected (all but the top 15% usually) go to a type of school called a 'Secondary Modern'. Selection is by means of a verbal and mathematical reasoning test at age 11. This system is old, and controversial. The government actually tends to deny knowledge that it still exists but numerous counties still run them.

Boys and girls only schools are still fairly common in Britain, as are faith schools for Catholic and Church of England denominations.

I think that covers the basics! Let me know if I missed anything

You missed the Christ's Hospital thing:
aged 11 you will go into in 2nd form,
then 3rd form,
Lower Erasmus,
Upper Forth,
Greater Erasmus,
Deputy Grecian,
Grecian.

See ~ now it all makes sense

 

[Plecostomus]

Am I really mean to be disappointed? ~ He is.

Not mean at all. Hopefully your disappointment will motivate him to do better.

Mean would be punishing him over it. I once got a C+ on a report-card and was grounded for three months. THAT is mean.

 

[cultcross]

You missed the Christ's Hospital thing:
aged 11 you will go into in 2nd form,
then 3rd form,
Lower Erasmus,
Upper Forth,
Greater Erasmus,
Deputy Grecian,
Grecian.

See ~ now it all makes sense

Lol That's what I meant by trying to avoid the 'other systems' which just complicate the fuck out of things.
I grew up near Oxford, went to a boys grammar school which did it's best to be 'cool' , but got the joy of girls from Headington School for Girls on the buses. For others' reference, that is the school Emma Watson, until recently, attended; it's posh. You got used to hearing sentences on the bus like "mummy simply refuses to up my allowance until I reach the upper fifth, I don't see how she expects me to live on £50 a week, it's all gone by like tuesday".

 

[Peach Wookiee]

^

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Then we can dig it.

Right on!

This is a good thing right

It's a fair cop.

 

[Mallory]

You missed the Christ's Hospital thing:
aged 11 you will go into in 2nd form,
then 3rd form,
Lower Erasmus,
Upper Forth,
Greater Erasmus,
Deputy Grecian,
Grecian.

See ~ now it all makes sense

Lol That's what I meant by trying to avoid the 'other systems' which just complicate the fuck out of things.
I grew up near Oxford, went to a boys grammar school which did it's best to be 'cool' , but got the joy of girls from Headington School for Girls on the buses. For others' reference, that is the school Emma Watson, until recently, attended; it's posh. You got used to hearing sentences on the bus like "mummy simply refuses to up my allowance until I reach the upper fifth, I don't see how she expects me to live on £50 a week, it's all gone by like tuesday".

She's just trying to confuse me again. Thanks again for the details cultcross, excepting K'ehleyr's attempt at a smoke screen, you've made things much clearer for me. I appreciate that.

And K'ehleyr? I wasn't attempting to change your mind or anything. I was more or less posing a philosophical question. If your son has a love of Japanese culture then more power to him. It seems to have worked out just fine for Goji. Sometimes I'm just a practical, cranky, out of touch old man.

 

[May 20]

Sometimes I'm just a practical, cranky, out of touch old man.

Some of us appreciate that in you very much.

As others have said, K'ehleyr, you aren't a bad mother at all. You simply want your son to do the best he can do, and it irks you when he doesn't. If you didn't feel that way, then you'd not be a good mother.

He's 16. He has a couple more years before he has to commit to university, right? Just ask him to not shoot himself in the foot in the meantime. As long as he continues his studies as if he were going to attend university, he'll keep his options open until he has to decide.

 

[Amaris]

Alrighty then. Where exactly do you draw the line between being a 'Good Mum' a 'Cool Mum' and a Dragon?

Actually I now know ~ it's when it's late in the evening, you've invited son to eat, drink and play a board game, because you want to include him. And he prefers to go to a friends cos he's 16 and that's what he wants to do. And you let him, but you make darn sure friend's Mum is picking him up from the end of the road.

Trouble is ~ he is too much like me ~ and I'm not totally sure I know how to control myself yet, let alone a 16 yr old. But we'll get there. And how...

Exactly. Some freedom, some responsibility, and hold him to both. Like I said, you're a good mom. I have the misfortune of living around families that have no discipline in their children whatsoever. Rocks thrown at cars at 3 AM in the morning, setting off fireworks at 11 PM at night. Yelling, carousing, drinking, smoking, fighting in the parking lot. It's bad here, and from firsthand experience with talking to some of the mothers, there's no care. The response to me is pretty much "tough shit", and the police don't care. So yes, yes, yes, you are a good mom, and just keep doing your best and when it comes down to the heart of it, he'll do his.

J.

 

[Australis]

K'ehleyr, in case you didn't get it, Flukie, Mr Laser Beam and co are riffing on the 'Theme from Shaft' by the late great Isaac Hayes, which has the line, "You say that Shaft is a bad mother--" "Shut yo' mouth!" and so on. I figured the, er, wine fumes must have got to you.

 

[Count Zero]

Thanks for the explanations, cultcross. Although we learned about the British school system in English class, I have forgotten all of that and we didn't go into the details. By the way, I went to a Catholic girls school. I hope that makes you feel better...

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

Right on!

This is a good thing right

It's a fair cop.

I knew K'ehleyr wasn't going to get this reference.

 

[StolenThunder]

I kind of coasted my way through GCSEs and A Levels, but then, as everyone does at some point, hit a brick wall where I couldn't coast any more in my first year at Uni - my grades slipped; not badly, but slipped in the sense your son's have slipped. I was annoyed at myself, sure...

This was the point I was going to make.

I went through my GCSEs and AS levels without doing that much extra work at all because I didn't have to. But I became remarkably fed up with things by the time A levels came around and didn't put in the effort - my grades were lower than expected and but for a re-mark, I wouldn't have satisfied the requirements for either of my university choices. That was my 'scare'. Some of my friends got theirs in first year medicine, some second. It happens to a lot of us.

If the grades are broadly good, they don't matter much when you move onto the next level - I struggled to remember what my grades were actually in the other day! - but what I learned from them was the need to work solidly.*

5As and 4Bs is a decent GCSE set. They'll be enough to inform his A level choices and satisfy any university requirements. Hopefully the element of disappointment will spur him on when it really starts to make a difference.

-

*That of course is helped by other things, mostly learning a subject (or subjects) you enjoy!

 

[Deckerd]

Just to make things complicated, in Scotland years 1 to 7 are called P1 to P7 (stands for Primary) and years 8 to 12 are S1 to S5 (stands for secondary) There is an S6 for senior pupils who want to tweak their university eligibility.

 

[Starkers]

I kind of coasted my way through GCSEs and A Levels, but then, as everyone does at some point, hit a brick wall where I couldn't coast any more in my first year at Uni - my grades slipped; not badly, but slipped in the sense your son's have slipped. I was annoyed at myself, sure...

This was the point I was going to make.

I went through my GCSEs and AS levels without doing that much extra work at all because I didn't have to. But I became remarkably fed up with things by the time A levels came around and didn't put in the effort - my grades were lower than expected and but for a re-mark, I wouldn't have satisfied the requirements for either of my university choices. That was my 'scare'. Some of my friends got theirs in first year medicine, some second. It happens to a lot of us.

If the grades are broadly good, they don't matter much when you move onto the next level - I struggled to remember what my grades were actually in the other day! - but what I learned from them was the need to work solidly.*

5As and 4Bs is a decent GCSE set. They'll be enough to inform his A level choices and satisfy any university requirements. Hopefully the element of disappointment will spur him on when it really starts to make a difference.

-

*That of course is helped by other things, mostly learning a subject (or subjects) you enjoy!

As I always say, education is wasted on the young

I did pretty bad at O'levels, did better with my A'Levels and did better still at degree level, so sometimes people just get more dedication with age.

At the end of my second year at Uni I came to a decision. Essays I worked hard on routinely got 2:2 grades, whilst those I just trotted out without much effort got 2:2 grades. Hence I decided I could work hard my final year and get a 2:2, or enjoy myself and get a 2:2...it was a cunning plan that was only ruined when, in the first term of my third year, I started getting 2:1 marks

David Mitchell made a good point on Who do you Think You Are the other week. He said he was more into history now than he ever was when he was doing his history degree. I'm the same, I've read more history books in the last year than I read in 3 years actually doing History.

 

[K'Ehleyr]

First of all thank you all for your replies and convincing me that I am a good Mum 'cos I just want him to do his best. I am still cross but that is turning into a positive ~ what can we do now thing...

Am I really mean to be disappointed? ~ He is.

Not mean at all. Hopefully your disappointment will motivate him to do better.

Mean would be punishing him over it. I once got a C+ on a report-card and was grounded for three months. THAT is mean.

Good on her
Son met me in Sainsbury car park today to ponce money () I had my head in the boot (trying to commit suicide by exhaust fumes ~ actually putting shopping away!) and he crept up behind me and said "car wash madam"
My tongue still hurts from biting back the reply "Got a good job with your grades then?" ~ See didn't say it, therefore not bad

And K'ehleyr? I wasn't attempting to change your mind or anything. I was more or less posing a philosophical question. If your son has a love of Japanese culture then more power to him. It seems to have worked out just fine for Goji. Sometimes I'm just a practical, cranky, out of touch old man.

I do lean more towards the 'working and learning' ethic. In your previous post you mentioned getting a degree in philosophy or latin which would be of no use ~ I totally agree. Yes I know getting a degree is an example of how you can study, learn and dedicate yourself to something. But I do think you can become somewhat 'mollycoddled' if you ride the education system too long without an absolutely positive goal.
As son has yet to find one, apart from the Japanese, I would be happy for him to do something practical ~ like work in the Japanese restaurant and learn that way.

K'ehleyr, in case you didn't get it, Flukie, Mr Laser Beam and co are riffing on the 'Theme from Shaft' by the late great Isaac Hayes, which has the line, "You say that Shaft is a bad mother--" "Shut yo' mouth!" and so on. I figured the, er, wine fumes must have got to you.

This is a good thing right

It's a fair cop.

I knew K'ehleyr wasn't going to get this reference.

Yes went right over my head The original was great but they totally fouled up the remake. And now thanks to you lot I have the music stuck in my head

I kind of coasted my way through GCSEs and A Levels, but then, as everyone does at some point, hit a brick wall where I couldn't coast any more in my first year at Uni - my grades slipped; not badly, but slipped in the sense your son's have slipped. I was annoyed at myself, sure...

This was the point I was going to make.

I went through my GCSEs and AS levels without doing that much extra work at all because I didn't have to. But I became remarkably fed up with things by the time A levels came around and didn't put in the effort - my grades were lower than expected and but for a re-mark, I wouldn't have satisfied the requirements for either of my university choices. That was my 'scare'. Some of my friends got theirs in first year medicine, some second. It happens to a lot of us.

If the grades are broadly good, they don't matter much when you move onto the next level - I struggled to remember what my grades were actually in the other day! - but what I learned from them was the need to work solidly.*

5As and 4Bs is a decent GCSE set. They'll be enough to inform his A level choices and satisfy any university requirements. Hopefully the element of disappointment will spur him on when it really starts to make a difference.

-

*That of course is helped by other things, mostly learning a subject (or subjects) you enjoy!

As I always say, education is wasted on the young

I did pretty bad at O'levels, did better with my A'Levels and did better still at degree level, so sometimes people just get more dedication with age.

At the end of my second year at Uni I came to a decision. Essays I worked hard on routinely got 2:2 grades, whilst those I just trotted out without much effort got 2:2 grades. Hence I decided I could work hard my final year and get a 2:2, or enjoy myself and get a 2:2...it was a cunning plan that was only ruined when, in the first term of my third year, I started getting 2:1 marks

David Mitchell made a good point on Who do you Think You Are the other week. He said he was more into history now than he ever was when he was doing his history degree. I'm the same, I've read more history books in the last year than I read in 3 years actually doing History.

I do hope this has given him the wake up call he clearly need.

And Starkers you're so right ~ education is wasted on the young but there is no bloody way you can tell them that
My man is history mad too, 30 years after failing it in school

 

[Holdfast]

^ An early shock to the system isn't such a bad thing.

If he knuckles down now, and his AS grades are very good, and his A-level predictions equally so, and he writes a good personal statement on his UCAS, he should do fine in terms of getting a university place, despite the "good but not outstanding" GCSE results. Distinguishing between candidates for university places boils down to a track record of academic achievement, good predictions and a good/relevant personal statement.

Apparently 45% of his year at his school got straight A*s or As.

This is shocking, and I'd complain to the school board about slipping educational standards if I were you.

I wouldn't go so far, but I was wondering about that, too. Seems really weird, especially for a school with a high reputation.

Function of the centralised national examination system here. Grade inflation has been occuring for years. They introduced the A* to fix the problem, and now too many people get that too. From next year, A-levels also get A* grades because the same problem is happening there too. Many universities now require extra admission exams for some subjects for students because of the deteriorating value of high grades within the existing system. I run courses helping prospective medical school applicants (and tutor a little at medical school) and certainly in terms of medicine, there's been a real need for extra exams like UKCAT and BMAT in order to distinguish academically between candidates with equally "good" grades. It will be interesting to see how the new A-Level A* grade interacts with these exams, and whether it proves useful or not. Certainly the BMAT is designed to be a FAR more useful/discriminatory test than A-levels are.

Headington School for Girls...

Always good value, Headington Girls...

 

[T'Bonz]

I have a very intelligent daughter who slacked through high school. She graduated college, but with no special grade point average.

She landed a good job and is doing excellent. At some point, if someone is smart and not living up to potential, something lights a fire under them and then they do what they should have done all along.

He'll do OK if he doesn't go insane with the partying.

 

[Starkers]

First of all thank you all for your replies and convincing me that I am a good Mum 'cos I just want him to do his best. I am still cross but that is turning into a positive ~ what can we do now thing...

Am I really mean to be disappointed? ~ He is.

Not mean at all. Hopefully your disappointment will motivate him to do better.

Mean would be punishing him over it. I once got a C+ on a report-card and was grounded for three months. THAT is mean.

Good on her
Son met me in Sainsbury car park today to ponce money () I had my head in the boot (trying to commit suicide by exhaust fumes ~ actually putting shopping away!) and he crept up behind me and said "car wash madam"
My tongue still hurts from biting back the reply "Got a good job with your grades then?" ~ See didn't say it, therefore not bad



I do lean more towards the 'working and learning' ethic. In your previous post you mentioned getting a degree in philosophy or latin which would be of no use ~ I totally agree. Yes I know getting a degree is an example of how you can study, learn and dedicate yourself to something. But I do think you can become somewhat 'mollycoddled' if you ride the education system too long without an absolutely positive goal.
As son has yet to find one, apart from the Japanese, I would be happy for him to do something practical ~ like work in the Japanese restaurant and learn that way.





Yes went right over my head The original was great but they totally fouled up the remake. And now thanks to you lot I have the music stuck in my head

This was the point I was going to make.

I went through my GCSEs and AS levels without doing that much extra work at all because I didn't have to. But I became remarkably fed up with things by the time A levels came around and didn't put in the effort - my grades were lower than expected and but for a re-mark, I wouldn't have satisfied the requirements for either of my university choices. That was my 'scare'. Some of my friends got theirs in first year medicine, some second. It happens to a lot of us.

If the grades are broadly good, they don't matter much when you move onto the next level - I struggled to remember what my grades were actually in the other day! - but what I learned from them was the need to work solidly.*

5As and 4Bs is a decent GCSE set. They'll be enough to inform his A level choices and satisfy any university requirements. Hopefully the element of disappointment will spur him on when it really starts to make a difference.

-

*That of course is helped by other things, mostly learning a subject (or subjects) you enjoy!

As I always say, education is wasted on the young

I did pretty bad at O'levels, did better with my A'Levels and did better still at degree level, so sometimes people just get more dedication with age.

At the end of my second year at Uni I came to a decision. Essays I worked hard on routinely got 2:2 grades, whilst those I just trotted out without much effort got 2:2 grades. Hence I decided I could work hard my final year and get a 2:2, or enjoy myself and get a 2:2...it was a cunning plan that was only ruined when, in the first term of my third year, I started getting 2:1 marks

David Mitchell made a good point on Who do you Think You Are the other week. He said he was more into history now than he ever was when he was doing his history degree. I'm the same, I've read more history books in the last year than I read in 3 years actually doing History.

I do hope this has given him the wake up call he clearly need.

And Starkers you're so right ~ education is wasted on the young but there is no bloody way you can tell them that
My man is history mad too, 30 years after failing it in school

Nope, I wouldn't have listened when I was 16

Shame really...

 

[K'Ehleyr]

I have a very intelligent daughter who slacked through high school. She graduated college, but with no special grade point average.

She landed a good job and is doing excellent. At some point, if someone is smart and not living up to potential, something lights a fire under them and then they do what they should have done all along.

He'll do OK if he doesn't go insane with the partying.

Nope, I wouldn't have listened when I was 16

Shame really...

You just want to But hopefully it will work out in the end like your daughter T'Bonz, thing is they don't seem to realise the effect is has on others ~ hey as you say Starkers, they wouldn't

Thanks again, for all replies. Just to round this off I had chat to Son over lunch today and explained that I was disappointed. He is too and has realised that he does need to put the work in. His results combined with friends of his that received poor A/S grades, hopefully have made him realise that although you may be clever you still have to knuckle down.

K'eh ~ mutated to Evil Mother who will chain son to the desk to do homework

 

[Jim Gamma]

I remember missing my A-Level (age 18) Maths B-grade by half a percent (three marks overall). I was extremely annoyed as I thought I hadn't made it to university... turns out they offered me the place anyway.