Freemasons

[Deckerd]

Did I say masons did? Did I say masons outwith Ireland and Scotland did? You need to read what I posted and stop kneejerking.

 

[Pingfah]

Masons used to meet in our School assembly hall. Same room John Cleese gave his speech in Clockwise.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Did I say masons did?

Uh, yeah, you did:

Masonic lodges have very sinister connotations in Scotland and Ireland, related to religious bigotry and malice. Other countries do not have these problems.

I'm fully aware of the stigma that surrounds us and we have a very checkered past, including the Morgan Affair, the P2 Lodge in Italy, etc. These things are not in dispute. When you make generalized accusations like that, the intent to lump the entire fraternity in with the implication is present whether you realize it or not. If this was not your intent, you should make your blanket statements a little more specific.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Did I say masons did?

Uh, yeah, you did:

Masonic lodges have very sinister connotations in Scotland and Ireland, related to religious bigotry and malice. Other countries do not have these problems.

I'm fully aware of the stigma that surrounds us and we have a very checkered past, including the Morgan Affair, the P2 Lodge in Italy, etc. These things are not in dispute. When you make generalized accusations like that, the intent to lump the entire fraternity in with the implication is present whether you realize it or not. If this was not your intent, you should make your blanket statements a little more specific.

The statement was confined to Scotland and Ireland. You want it narrowed down to street addresses?

 

[Deckerd]

Yes, there's a wee bit of protesting too much going on here.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Yes, there's a wee bit of protesting too much going on here.

Alright - I misunderstood the initial statement - it looked more like a blanket indictment than anything else initially. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

In doing some research on the Orangemen, there certainly does seem to be a Masonic influence. The Wiki sums it up pretty well:

Some evangelical groups have claimed that the Orange Order is still influenced by freemasonry.[31] Many Masonic traditions survive, such as the organisation of the Order into lodges. The Order has a system of degrees through which new members advance. These degrees are interactive plays with references to the Bible. There is particular concern over the ritualism of higher degrees such as the Royal Arch Purple and the Royal Black Institutions.[32]

First of all, let's ensure that everyone realizes where this is coming from - "Some evangelical groups". Not a big fan of those guys, personally. I am not born again - I got it right the first time, thanks very much.

Now, to address the more historical nature of this claim (vs. the hysterical nature of this claim), there is a strong possibility that Masons had a hand in the development in the Orange people. They share the fore-mentioned commonalities, plus they do wear Masonic officer regalia. This is probably due to the fact that statistically, there is a higher number of members professing an allegiance to a protestant denomination in Masonry than any other group. As for the group's religious and political goals, one can probably trace this attitude as far back as the Protestant Reformation and the persecution that protestants suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church. When one group engages in perceived acts of injustice, there will always be another group to counter it. It's another one of those immutable universal laws. Over time, when the injustices cease, the groups continue when there's no real reason to exist, operating on "tradition" alone. Some would say this applies to Masonry as well. Not saying any of it is right, but it is what it is: the old game of escalation, until both sides go to the opposite extremes and people start doing stupid shit and getting hurt. I do not condone this, nor does any Mason I've ever met. It's not what we're about. I cannot speak for European Masonry, but I'm pretty certain that American Masonry does not recognize the Orangemen as an appendant body, nor should we. They engage in passive acts of civil and political unrest, marching through Catholic neighborhoods, inciting an emotional response where none would normally be. It is Masonry's highest law not to support any political or religious affiliation. If that were to happen, it would no longer be an open organization.

As for "protesting too much", that came out of my misunderstanding of the post's original intent. At the end of the day, I really could care less about Orange or Green.

Update:
In looking at the picture in the Wiki of the tracing board of Orange symbolism, there are a boatload of Masonic symbols including the Square and Compasses. This narrows it down to one of two possibilities:

1) It was formed by Masons, in which case I shake my head ruefully and am quite disgusted.
2) It was formed by people like the Illuminati who were privy to the symbols and formed this group to place focus on Masonry where there would otherwise be none. Organizations and unions like the Junior Order of Mechanics use the Square and Compass in their emblems and are not Masonic bodies.

 

[Rocketman]

^ 'bout those symbols, what's the deal with the flag of the GDR?

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Symbols of industry are common throughout the world. These symbols became even more popular everywhere during the turn of the 20th centuries as industrialization was starting to kick in. The arm-and-hammer that the fore-mentioned Junior Order of Mechanics used is a prime example. Hammers, quadrants, sickles, surveying devices, etc., where especially embraced by the Communist parties of the 20th century due to the romanticized view of supremacy of the common working man over the bourgeois elite.

As Masonry continued to be banned in East Germany and other Communist states following WWII, it most certainly had nothing to do with their choice in heraldry. The only exception was, and still is, Cuba - the only other nation in the world besides America that was founded on Masonic principles. If you take their flag (designed in 1848) and rotate it 90 degrees, it's a Masonic apron. The Puerto Rican flag is similar, with the blue and red colors reversed, but it wasn't adopted for another 10 or 20 years and doesn't seem to have Masonic significance.

 

[Philo]

This is interesting. I just want to say thanks to all of the masons for all of the informative reading. I simply can't stand all of that nonsense Freemason conspiracy theory nonsense, especially if you look back and realize that most of that was born out of the early Catholic Church's insecurity at having (what they perceived to be) new competition. After a few hundred years, these things tend to have a life of their own.

Masons used to meet in our School assembly hall. Same room John Cleese gave his speech in Clockwise.

I went to nursery school in a Masonic Temple! I had no idea what that meant at the time, but at four years old, I was always fascinated by the symbol on the outside of the building.

 

[john titor]

Did you know Jay Z is a mason

http://djkonservo.wordpress.com/200...s-musicians-and-of-course-politicians-part-2/

http://djkonservo.wordpress.com/200...usicians-and-of-course-politicians/#more-2232

- The name rocafella is evidence of a link to the illuminati (despite being started when he was still a relative unknown)
- The song umbrella is about rihanna selling her soul to the devil
- Or its about jay z / rihanna being under the illuminatis "umbrella" and thus unaffected by the economy crashing
- Beyonces videos and onstage persona are a sign of her being brought to the dark side by jay z
- His onstage handshake with Nas to end their feud was a masonic handshake
- Public appearences with Bloomberg, Tom Cruise and Bill Gates are proof he's a mason.


as is beyonce

http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=604

and lady gaga

http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=1676

See the connections people

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^



john titor, I suspect this will be my final response to any of this "proof" you keep spewing out -- and I honestly still can't tell if you're serious about any of this based on that last post - Lady Gaga???

Remember I used to be a staunch anti-Mason. I listened to Bill Cooper every night and believed all this hokum about conspiracy theory and that's just what it is - theory.

If you got the tires for it, why don't you do the REAL research. Get some REAL proof to go with your theory. Go join a Masonic Lodge (if you are over 18) and try to start dismantling them and undermining them from within. Infiltrate, divide and conquer. Build a power base and work it. Become a Master of a Lodge, District Deputy Grand Master, even the Grand Master of the state in which you live and tear it down - if you can. Expose it to the world the farce that it is. Show everyone that we dance around naked, wearing funny hats and gleefully fondling Baphomet's balls.

I think you will find that most Masons can't even agree on what to have for dinner, much less rule the world. I was quite shocked when I started seeing that, considering I bought into the bullshit like you do. Then again, that was almost 20 years ago.

I doubt you will do any of this, as you sound quite comfortable emitting this constant stream of uninformed verbal flatulence from your blacked-out windows, onion-skin proxy server, creaky chair and tin foil hat. I look forward to your additional musings in later posts. I am genuinely amused by them.

Yes, I'm saying you don't have the guts to do it. In fact, I KNOW you don't. You'd piss your pants before you got through the front door, I'd wager, if you really believe all this bullshit.

And yeah, Jay Z is probably a Prince Hall Mason. I think Arsinio Hall is too. Might even be related to Prince Hall way down the line. Whoopie! There are connections everywhere aren't they?

But Beyonce?

And Lady Gaga??!?!?

Dude...

Lady Gaga...that's some good shit there, I tell ya...


Yours in Light
\/\/
/\/\

 

[137th Gebirg]

This is interesting. I just want to say thanks to all of the masons for all of the informative reading. I simply can't stand all of that nonsense Freemason conspiracy theory nonsense, especially if you look back and realize that most of that was born out of the early Catholic Church's insecurity at having (what they perceived to be) new competition. After a few hundred years, these things tend to have a life of their own.

Masons used to meet in our School assembly hall. Same room John Cleese gave his speech in Clockwise.

I went to nursery school in a Masonic Temple! I had no idea what that meant at the time, but at four years old, I was always fascinated by the symbol on the outside of the building.

Hi Philo. Thanks for the kind words. I like to be as up-front as possible about things for people with a genuine curiosity, as the secret aspects are very few and far between. In fact, we generally are of the opinion that we are not a secret society so much as we are a society with secrets. As I mentioned in a previous post, handshakes, words, signs, etc., are the secret things, mostly out of respect for the tradition in which they were formed.

Re: Catholic rivalry - during the 19th century when Masonry was growing, they formed their own equivalent fraternity called the "Knights of Columbus" in 1882 as they were "losing" many of their parishioners to Masonry due to its wide appeal at the time. This was way before Vatican II decided that Masonry was not some evil empire looking to bring down the Pope, so they founded the KoC to draw them back into the flock. The funny thing is, I know brethren who are both Masons and KoC. Never seemed to be a problem for them.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

Did you know Jay Z is a mason

http://djkonservo.wordpress.com/200...s-musicians-and-of-course-politicians-part-2/

http://djkonservo.wordpress.com/200...usicians-and-of-course-politicians/#more-2232

- The name rocafella is evidence of a link to the illuminati (despite being started when he was still a relative unknown)
- The song umbrella is about rihanna selling her soul to the devil
- Or its about jay z / rihanna being under the illuminatis "umbrella" and thus unaffected by the economy crashing
- Beyonces videos and onstage persona are a sign of her being brought to the dark side by jay z
- His onstage handshake with Nas to end their feud was a masonic handshake
- Public appearences with Bloomberg, Tom Cruise and Bill Gates are proof he's a mason.


as is beyonce

http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=604

and lady gaga

http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=1676

See the connections people

He he isn't. God give it a rest will you? This is all nonsense.

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Actually, Alpha he might be Prince Hall. Either that or he likes adding the esoteric weird stuff in his work to sell more albums because it's different from what others have done in his industry. Weirder things have happened.

 

[Amaris]

Freemasons and Freemasonry have always fascinated me. I guess it's just the whole idea of exclusivity coupled with my insatiable curiosity. I've always figured the Masons are just a fraternity that gets together and does great works. The Shriners in particular, are responsible for some great charity work over the years. I worked with a Shriner when I worked at Walmart years ago. One of the most stand up and honest guys you would ever meet.


J.

 

[Pingfah]

Did you know Jay Z is a mason

http://djkonservo.wordpress.com/200...s-musicians-and-of-course-politicians-part-2/

http://djkonservo.wordpress.com/200...usicians-and-of-course-politicians/#more-2232

- The name rocafella is evidence of a link to the illuminati (despite being started when he was still a relative unknown)
- The song umbrella is about rihanna selling her soul to the devil
- Or its about jay z / rihanna being under the illuminatis "umbrella" and thus unaffected by the economy crashing
- Beyonces videos and onstage persona are a sign of her being brought to the dark side by jay z
- His onstage handshake with Nas to end their feud was a masonic handshake
- Public appearences with Bloomberg, Tom Cruise and Bill Gates are proof he's a mason.


as is beyonce

http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=604

and lady gaga

http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=1676

See the connections people

Uh huh, uh huh. And the moon landings were faked, and the twin towers were blown up by the government, the Queen killed Lady Di, Kurt Cobain was murdered, Elvis lives, blah blah fuckin' blah.

 

[Deckerd]

The moon landings were faked? Now you tell me.

 

[john titor]

^^^



john titor, I suspect this will be my final response to any of this "proof" you keep spewing out -- and I honestly still can't tell if you're serious about any of this based on that last post - Lady Gaga???

Remember I used to be a staunch anti-Mason. I listened to Bill Cooper every night and believed all this hokum about conspiracy theory and that's just what it is - theory.

If you got the tires for it, why don't you do the REAL research. Get some REAL proof to go with your theory. Go join a Masonic Lodge (if you are over 18) and try to start dismantling them and undermining them from within. Infiltrate, divide and conquer. Build a power base and work it. Become a Master of a Lodge, District Deputy Grand Master, even the Grand Master of the state in which you live and tear it down - if you can. Expose it to the world the farce that it is. Show everyone that we dance around naked, wearing funny hats and gleefully fondling Baphomet's balls.

I think you will find that most Masons can't even agree on what to have for dinner, much less rule the world. I was quite shocked when I started seeing that, considering I bought into the bullshit like you do. Then again, that was almost 20 years ago.

I doubt you will do any of this, as you sound quite comfortable emitting this constant stream of uninformed verbal flatulence from your blacked-out windows, onion-skin proxy server, creaky chair and tin foil hat. I look forward to your additional musings in later posts. I am genuinely amused by them.

Yes, I'm saying you don't have the guts to do it. In fact, I KNOW you don't. You'd piss your pants before you got through the front door, I'd wager, if you really believe all this bullshit.

And yeah, Jay Z is probably a Prince Hall Mason. I think Arsinio Hall is too. Might even be related to Prince Hall way down the line. Whoopie! There are connections everywhere aren't they?

But Beyonce?

And Lady Gaga??!?!?

Dude...

Lady Gaga...that's some good shit there, I tell ya...


Yours in Light
\/\/
/\/\

You're demonstrating the ubermensch attitude of masonry quite well.

Now excuse me while I go to play football with the guys.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

Freemasons and Freemasonry have always fascinated me. I guess it's just the whole idea of exclusivity coupled with my insatiable curiosity. I've always figured the Masons are just a fraternity that gets together and does great works. The Shriners in particular, are responsible for some great charity work over the years. I worked with a Shriner when I worked at Walmart years ago. One of the most stand up and honest guys you would ever meet.


J.

In my opinion you would make an excellent addition to the fraternity.

 

[Guartho]

Show everyone that we dance around naked, wearing funny hats and gleefully fondling Baphomet's balls.

lol Baphomet