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Something I have just realized about the Bajorans

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DevilEyes

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I think I have finally realized exactly why some Trek fans hate Bajorans so much, or call them "boring", as well as why I love them and find their stories interesting. And I think it is the same reason.

I've come to this realization while rewatching early season 1 (so far, "Emissary", "Past Prologue", "A Man Alone" and "Babel". One thing that particualrly struck me in those early episodes is that, while Cardassians seemed like classic villains at the time, the real main villains in each of the episodes were all Bajorans. You can see that the show enjoyed confounding expectations early on. After being introduced to Bajorans in "Emissary" as a spiritual people who have suffered terribly, and getting to know them only through a plucky, tough-as-nails heroine with a dark past (Kira) and an an angelic wise middle-aged religious woman (Kai Opaka), with "Past Prologue" and "A Man Alone" we had two episodes in a row with very different Bajoran villains: a nationalistic extremist and very dangerous terrorist (Tahna Los), an immoral and opportunistic ex-black marketeer and murderer (Ibudan), and a bloodthirsty mob out to lynch Odo not so much for being a former 'collaborator' or a suspect in a murder case, as much as simply being different. And although "Babel" does not have a villain, again it turns out, for the 3rd episode in a row, that it's the Bajorans who have caused the problem, rather than the Cardassians, and the closest thing to an antagonist is the late scientist's assistant, a selfish arsehole who does not give a damn about people on the station dying if there's a chance he'll get in trouble - and who does end up saving the day, but only after being abducted by Kira and forced to find an antidote in order to save his own skin.

This has got me thinking about all the other minor and not so minor Bajoran characters throughout DS9, and it's made me realize a couple of things.

First off, Bajorans may be actually the race with the widest variety in characterization in Trek - possibly even more so than the Cardassians, and definitely more so than Trek Humans. Thanks to the station's setting, we've met all sorts of Bajorans - from the almost-too-good-to-be-true ones like Opaka or Bareil, to angry, flawed and morally ambiguous heroes like Kira, to downright despicable like Ibudan, Vaatrik's wife ("Necessary Evil"), or the collaborator Basso ("Wrongs Darker than Death or Night" - this guy must be one of the most despicable people in Trek in general). From power-hungry leaders like Win, to a bunch of sheep-like people who'll follow anyone with an ounce of charisma and eloquence. Which leads to my second realization....

Out of all the races in Trek, Bajorans are the ones who are the most similar to humans - not the 'evolved' 24th century Trek humans, but the humans as we know them, real, unevolved, 20th century humans. Bajorans are not a stereotype made out of one magnified human characteristic, like 'honor' or 'greed'; they don't make good comedy like Ferengi; physically and biologically they are quite normal by human standards - no symbionts and multiple lifetimes, only two genders; no unusual mental powers like telepathy; they are not exotic enough to be 'cool' like Klingons, they don't have cool catchprases or weird weapons (and don't seem to practice caveman sex that you could have a bunch of nudge-nudge wink-wink scenes about). Instead of some Viking/Bushido blend, their terrorists/Resistance fighters look too much like the real life terrorists/freedom fighters - which is a bit too close to home, and hardly likely to get a bunch of geeks to appear in conventions dressed like them and start learning some made-up language. It's hard to reduce them to one or two characteristics, as people love to do with Trek alien races. The only thing anyone has ever come up with is their religion. (Of course, there've been several Bajorans characters who were not religious at all, like Ro, or didn't seem to care either way. Tahna Los, was instance, was a straighforward nationalist, "Bajor for the Bajorans", and was ready to blow up the entrance to the wormhole - which was not 'Celestrial Temple' to him.) Religion as an important and integral part of the culture is something that differentiates Bajorans from most other cultures in Trek - but, again, makes them very similar to... real life humans as we know them.

Cardassians are also quite close to being most similar to humans, but they get witty quotes, sexy uniforms, mysteriousness and the Magnificent Bastardry of the most prominent Cardassian characters. Out of Bajoran characters, the only one who gets anywhere close to being a MB is Win, which explains her popularity with some Bajoran-hating fans - but ultimately, a self-righteous middle-aged female religious leader is no match for witty spies or badass Klingon generals. Out of the other characters, the ones that can be considered heroes often provoke a lot of grumbling from some fans, who just can't forgive them for having been eastablished as victims of a ruthless occupation. Nobody likes a victim, right - especially if they are so "whiny" and 'self-righteous" , i.e. they dare to actually remind people that their planet had been ravaged and their people killed, raped, starved...gee, can't they put it to rest, it has been just - what? A month? A week? Come on guys, that kind of talk just reminds people of real life, and it is just not fun!

As for all those less-than-admirable Bajorans of various kinds (whether it is Tahna, or the Vaatriks, or Basso, or one of the angry mob who'll lynch someone for being different, not to mention those who'll kill a Cardassian only for being a Cardassian), they just mirror the ugly face of humanity (instead of presenting some exotic version of it).

And all in all, Bajorans terrorism, the importance of religion in their lives, their various factions and politics and power struggle - all this is, well.. just too similar to real life humans, which makes it "boring" and "not cool".

Unless you actually happen to enjoy it for all those reasons, like me.
 
You make some very good points, in my opinion, DevilEyes. :) I could never understand the "stop whining about the occupation" complaints from some fans. The core premise of the show, and one of its strongest in terms of the characters, situations, emotions and issues it could generate, and some people seemed to want to discard it completely. Well, each to their own, of course, but when we factor in the desire to be realistic, it simply made no sense to show the Bajorans as simply putting 60 years of brutal occupation behind them.

I also agree that Bajorans are very difficult to pidgeonhole, and are one of the more "human" alien societies.
 
I actually had one person on this board (I don't know if he's still around) try to tell me that the occupation wasn't "that" brutal because "only" 10 million people died in those 60 years, and that's "only" 16,000 or 17,000 people per year. He claimed he wasn't kidding, either. Yeah.

But I think you make some excellent points, DevilEyes - I think some scifi fans prefer the overtly exotic. And nobody wants to be reminded too much of humanity's failings, right? Riiiiiiiiight.
 
^ I agree with youse guys on this, and I say this as a Cardassian fan.:lol:

I am a big fan of Cardassians myself :adore::cardie: and I particularly loved the interactions between the Bajoran and the Cardassian characters - they always made for some of the most fascinating and compelling moments in DS9. :techman:
 
DevilEyes, I think you have some excellent insights there. This may also be why I've always loved the Bajorans, but never put too much thought into why. They're definitely the most well-rounded species in all of Trek, and they get the most facets of their society shown. That includes TrekVerse humans. Being the most human, including the uncomfortable parts of humanity, no doubt contributes to their being seen as "boring" (read not exotic and "kewl") by some fans. Good catch! :techman:
 
I have always hated and still hate Bajorans but I do not hate them for the reasons listed in the OP.

I don't care if they are greedy or immoral; that doesn't make me hate them. I love greedy characters (ie: Quark) or immoral characters (ie: Garak, Winn-the only Bajoran I love because she doesn't whine and she is fascinating) if they are interesting. The throwaway immoral Bajoran terrorist characters in S1 were not even worth remebering, much less hating the race over.

I hate Bajorans because yes they are boring as the OP states, but even worse, they are frickin' annoying!

I wouldn't care if they were occupied for 100 billion years; I still don't wanna hear about them whine about it ad nauseaum every time they open their mouths. I care about my own problems, not theirs. I believe that is a fundamental human principle too, which is why no one likes complainers in real life. A lot of DS9 fans say this is fine because 'if it happened to you, then you'd whine about it too!', but I still don't care. Even if that is true, it's still immensely annoying and the antithesis of entertainment to hear them whine about it.

The showrunners seem to have been under the impression that viewers of DS9 are supposed to care about Bajorans by default for some inexplicable reason. But I for one, couldn't care less about them, and the writers never gave me any reason as to why I should care about them. They did give me plenty of reasons to hate them though, most notably, because of their incessant whining.
 
I have always hated and still hate Bajorans but I do not hate them for the reasons listed in the OP.

I don't care if they are greedy or immoral; that doesn't make me hate them. I love greedy characters (ie: Quark) or immoral characters (ie: Garak, Winn-the only Bajoran I love because she doesn't whine and she is fascinating) if they are interesting. The throwaway immoral Bajoran terrorist characters in S1 were not even worth remebering, much less hating the race over.
Actually, you've just proved my point. You seem to hate them for the reasons I stated. Which you've completely misread.
 
Actually, you've just proved my point. You seem to hate them for the reasons I stated. Which you've completely misread.

I just re-read the OP to see if I missed anything.

The OP seems to be saying that people hate Bajorans because they are too close to real-life humans living today, and also because they are often immoral. I do not hate them for those reasons, and I doubt the other Bajoran haters do either.

I should also add that IMO there is one unifying characteristic that glues together 99% of Bajorans into a stereotype that the race is known for: incessant whining.
 
A lot of DS9 fans say this is fine because 'if it happened to you, then you'd whine about it too!', but I still don't care. Even if that is true, it's still immensely annoying and the antithesis of entertainment to hear them whine about it.

I see. TV shows should always be pure fun, light entertainment. Heaven forbid we have something darker, more unnerving. Sure, it may be realistic, as even you seem to admit, but we can't let that get in the way of fun... :rolleyes:

And, how many times does it need to be said? 'Whining' is constantly complaining about insignificant, petty things. Remembering a terible ocupation is NOT 'whining'.
Jeez, some people do like to exaggerate.

Excellent analysis, DevilEyes. I have nothing to add except to note I'm also rewatching DS9 and I'm also currently at Babel. What are the chances of that, eh? :lol:
 
I found them to be boring, annoying and whiny the 1st time I watched the show all the way through.

But every time I have watched the show since then I have found them to be more and more interesting.
 
I like Bajorans for the reason stated above - they're more like us than the Trek humans are. There's much more variety, you never know exactly what you're getting with a Bajoran.
 
I wonder if certain fans also hate being reminded about what was done to the Jewish people 60-ish years ago and call Holocaust remembers "whiners?" Or hearing about what was done to the Native Americans, or the Israelis to the Palestinians, or... or...
 
I wonder if certain fans also hate being reminded about what was done to the Jewish people 60-ish years ago and call Holocaust remembers "whiners?" Or hearing about what was done to the Native Americans, or the Israelis to the Palestinians, or... or...

Being "reminded" and educated about something is a billion times different than listening to the whining and complaining rants of a race or individual.

And there are personal stories from my history (and I'm sure others) that can easily back this up. Yes, bad things happened. Yes, we DEFINITELY need to be reminded of that so that hopefully, it will not happen ever again. But there are ways of dealing with this that that can make for good drama, or there are ways of dealing with this that remind me of the Bajorans.

Of course, everybody's threshold for annoyance is different. :)
 
I don't find them annoying or whiny, and I think that Kira's development throughout the show was a tremendous storytelling success. As I've seen Nana Visitor say before, Kira came full circle, but she was in a far different place emotionally at the end. If anything, a lot of the story elements surrounding the Bajorans have more worldwide significance today than they did when the show first aired, particularly the issues of terrorism. I think that just like in Babylon 5, where Londo and G'Kar together were far greater than the sum total of their parts, so were the Bajorans and Cardassians. It's very hard for me to think of one without the other.
 
I've always somewhat dismissed the Bajorans as spiritualism-obsessed and a little one-note. But, the OP makes a strong case for them being more diverse then that, at least in the earlier seasons.

I loved the last few seasons of DS9, but it might have been good to see a little more of the Bajorans instead of so much of the Dominion War. In fact, pretty much the only thing we see of the Bajorans in the last couple seasons involves pagh wraiths, mystical books, prophecies, and the like. I would have loved more focus on their politics, social conflicts, etc.
 
I loved the last few seasons of DS9, but it might have been good to see a little more of the Bajorans instead of so much of the Dominion War. In fact, pretty much the only thing we see of the Bajorans in the last couple seasons involves pagh wraiths, mystical books, prophecies, and the like. I would have loved more focus on their politics, social conflicts, etc.

Agreed - it would have been nice for there to be some talk of Bajor itself by the end, perhaps discussions about Bajor's future after the end of the war, returning to the idea of Bajor joining the Federation. It could even have tied into Winn's arc, how she'd feel as if she'd be marginalized by these outsiders if Bajor joined the Federation, give her more motivation for siding with the Pai-Wraiths because they would give her the power to remain the leader of Bajor. I mean, the whole reason the Federation came out there was, officially, to ready the Bajorans for Federation membership, yet the last time this plays a part on the show is the fifth season episode 'Rapture,' when Sisko warns against Bajor joining because the Prophets give him a vision of the coming war.

I love the Bajorans, really. I never felt they were whining - the Occupation stripped their planet of resources, millions died, their culture was crushed under the heel of the Cardassians... I mean, really, would you tell a Holocaust survivor to stop whining about the horrors inflicted on them? Because the comparison is apt. I think DevilEyes managed to articulate the 'why' behind it so perfectly. The Bajorans are the closest to us as we get on Star Trek. Trek's humans are 'more evolved' and every other race has aspects of us, but Bajorans are the most mixed of a race, the religion 'hat' being the biggest piece, but there is still a sense that there's more to them than that one aspect.

Also, there are the little touches that make them feel like a truly fleshed out species, like the backhanded clap they use. It's a little thing, but I really like it - it's a gesture we recognize, but it's still different.
 
I loved the last few seasons of DS9, but it might have been good to see a little more of the Bajorans instead of so much of the Dominion War. In fact, pretty much the only thing we see of the Bajorans in the last couple seasons involves pagh wraiths, mystical books, prophecies, and the like. I would have loved more focus on their politics, social conflicts, etc.

Agreed - it would have been nice for there to be some talk of Bajor itself by the end, perhaps discussions about Bajor's future after the end of the war, returning to the idea of Bajor joining the Federation. It could even have tied into Winn's arc, how she'd feel as if she'd be marginalized by these outsiders if Bajor joined the Federation, give her more motivation for siding with the Pai-Wraiths because they would give her the power to remain the leader of Bajor. I mean, the whole reason the Federation came out there was, officially, to ready the Bajorans for Federation membership, yet the last time this plays a part on the show is the fifth season episode 'Rapture,' when Sisko warns against Bajor joining because the Prophets give him a vision of the coming war.

I love the Bajorans, really. I never felt they were whining - the Occupation stripped their planet of resources, millions died, their culture was crushed under the heel of the Cardassians... I mean, really, would you tell a Holocaust survivor to stop whining about the horrors inflicted on them? Because the comparison is apt. I think DevilEyes managed to articulate the 'why' behind it so perfectly. The Bajorans are the closest to us as we get on Star Trek. Trek's humans are 'more evolved' and every other race has aspects of us, but Bajorans are the most mixed of a race, the religion 'hat' being the biggest piece, but there is still a sense that there's more to them than that one aspect.

Also, there are the little touches that make them feel like a truly fleshed out species, like the backhanded clap they use. It's a little thing, but I really like it - it's a gesture we recognize, but it's still different.

I really like the clap comment. :) I notice Cardassians got their own distinct clap, too; they drum on the table.

Sadly, as someone who himself gets told at times to stop making a fuss about the- ongoing- harm inflicted upon the group of people I most identify with, I wasn't surprised that some people were dismissive of Bajoran "whining", even though, as I said in my earlier post, I don't understand why.

I also agree with what you say about Winn's arc being strengthened if the question of Federation membership had been tied in. Not that I have any problem with Winn's arc as it is, but it would have made sense to see how Bajor was considering its future, particularly seeing as they didn't know who would triumph in the war. The "Bajor's future" arc seemed to largely get dropped after season five.
 
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