A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager
- Thread starter TheGodBen
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
But I have to be a hater in order to get my Niner membership card.
I've already passed the requirement for acting smug and pretending that DS9 is a perfect show with no bad episodes, but I still have to hate Voyager in order to be accepted.
But I have to be a hater in order to get my Niner membership card.
I've already passed the requirement for acting smug and pretending that DS9 is a perfect show with no bad episodes, but I still have to hate Voyager in order to be accepted.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Shattered (**)
REPLICATORS STILL DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! GOODNIGHT!!
TIME TRAVEL ALSO DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! GOODNIGHT!!
While Morbo may be loud and terrifying, he does bring up a valid point.
All of the historical incidents that this time travel mess created are spread out over thousands of light years, one of them even takes place in the AQ, so how is any of this possible? I know, I know, it's science fiction and none of this stuff makes sense but I find this one especially galling.
I get the idea behind this episode, it is trying to be like All Good Things by having visions of Voyager's future and its past. It's like a clip-show without being a boring clip-show. But All Good Things came together at the end to make sense (except for some logical inconsistencies involving the anti-time anomaly), it was a test devised by Q to see if Picard could figure out "the unknown possibilities of existence". In Shattered the whole plot revolves around an anomaly of the week which does something random and nonsensical and the solution is some technobabble thing that Seven devised.
And there is no sense of danger here, the time-travel nature of the plot makes it abundantly clear that everything is going to be reset at the end so that none of this happens. Even Tuvok's emotional death scene didn't impact me in the slightest because I knew it didn't mean anything, the only thing I thought was that I wished it was Harry so that I could increment his death counter one more time.
It wasn't a boring episode and there's some fun to be had, particularly with the cranky Shmully before he took his annoying turn. But overall I found it to be a very meh episode, perhaps because I don't feel all that nostalgic about Voyager.
Shattered (**)
REPLICATORS STILL DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! GOODNIGHT!!
TIME TRAVEL ALSO DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! GOODNIGHT!!
While Morbo may be loud and terrifying, he does bring up a valid point.
All of the historical incidents that this time travel mess created are spread out over thousands of light years, one of them even takes place in the AQ, so how is any of this possible? I know, I know, it's science fiction and none of this stuff makes sense but I find this one especially galling.I get the idea behind this episode, it is trying to be like All Good Things by having visions of Voyager's future and its past. It's like a clip-show without being a boring clip-show. But All Good Things came together at the end to make sense (except for some logical inconsistencies involving the anti-time anomaly), it was a test devised by Q to see if Picard could figure out "the unknown possibilities of existence". In Shattered the whole plot revolves around an anomaly of the week which does something random and nonsensical and the solution is some technobabble thing that Seven devised.
And there is no sense of danger here, the time-travel nature of the plot makes it abundantly clear that everything is going to be reset at the end so that none of this happens. Even Tuvok's emotional death scene didn't impact me in the slightest because I knew it didn't mean anything, the only thing I thought was that I wished it was Harry so that I could increment his death counter one more time.
It wasn't a boring episode and there's some fun to be had, particularly with the cranky Shmully before he took his annoying turn. But overall I found it to be a very meh episode, perhaps because I don't feel all that nostalgic about Voyager.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Don't let the trolls get to you.
But I have to be a hater in order to get my Niner membership card.
Don't let the trolls get to you.Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Ah, Morbo. Wherever would we be without your sage counsel?
Ah, Morbo. Wherever would we be without your sage counsel?
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
On the replicator issue.. I imagine maybe you can replicate a piece of uncooked "synthi-meat" or whatever and then possibly program some sort of heating/cooking sequence?
Maybe that is considered a way to add a personal touch to replicated food? So it can be prepared different ways.
Yeah I know there is absolutely nothing on screen to suggest that, but seriously why couldn't that happen? That is what always went through my head in these (poorly thought out) sequences involving Janeway's bad luck with replicated food.
On the replicator issue.. I imagine maybe you can replicate a piece of uncooked "synthi-meat" or whatever and then possibly program some sort of heating/cooking sequence?
Maybe that is considered a way to add a personal touch to replicated food? So it can be prepared different ways.
Yeah I know there is absolutely nothing on screen to suggest that, but seriously why couldn't that happen? That is what always went through my head in these (poorly thought out) sequences involving Janeway's bad luck with replicated food.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
And how do you know that? Time traveled much my dear?
And good luck with that DS9 member card. We now the truth here, however. You are a Voyager fan, but still in the closet.
Shattered gets ****½ from me.
And how do you know that? Time traveled much my dear?
And good luck with that DS9 member card. We now the truth here, however. You are a Voyager fan, but still in the closet.
Shattered gets ****½ from me.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Shattard was a nice way to do a quasi-clip show. Go back to some important moments in Voyager history and while it didn't make any sense, it still was one of my favorite Season 7 episodes.
Shattard was a nice way to do a quasi-clip show. Go back to some important moments in Voyager history and while it didn't make any sense, it still was one of my favorite Season 7 episodes.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Lineage (****)
I said back when Tom and B'Elanna got married that I had a hard time buying into their relationship because we normally saw them arguing, but this time around I can buy into it. Maybe it is because they're happy and planning their future in the early part of the episode and the fighting comes later, but whatever it is, I'm willing to accept that his is a couple who are shocked/overjoyed to learn that their first child is on the way. Add to this the fact that this is something which will have consequences, and that Voyager feels like a community once again, and you have the basis for a successful episode.
I can very easily buy into the idea that B'Elanna fears her kid would end up like her because... well, I've known women like that. And if they had the ability to genetically modify their unborn kids to make them less like themselves then they might just do that. In a way it is sort of sweet because B'Elanna is looking out for the welfare of her child, but in another way it is very disturbing. As for the eventual realisation that she is also doing it because she fears Tom would leave her if their child ends up too Klingon, I think that the flashbacks gave that away too early, but that makes sense too.
Speaking of the flashbacks, one of my problems with the episode is the notion that B'Elanna's father would talk about leaving because of B'Elanna while sitting next to her tent is just a little too convenient. Emotionally it works but logically you'd think the guy had more sense than that. But my biggest problem with the episode was that B'Elanna goes uber-crazy at the end and reprograms Shmully to perform the procedure. Maybe it makes sense if the pregnancy is making her extra hormonal and whatnot, but I felt that it added a layer of tension which wasn't needed in an otherwise fantastic character episode.
As a matter of fact, I am one of many people that suffers from a rare genetic problem called chrono-displacement disorder. It causes me to travel through time at random, but it also makes me sweet, sensitive and ruggedly handsome.And how do you know that? Time traveled much my dear?
Lineage (****)
I said back when Tom and B'Elanna got married that I had a hard time buying into their relationship because we normally saw them arguing, but this time around I can buy into it. Maybe it is because they're happy and planning their future in the early part of the episode and the fighting comes later, but whatever it is, I'm willing to accept that his is a couple who are shocked/overjoyed to learn that their first child is on the way. Add to this the fact that this is something which will have consequences, and that Voyager feels like a community once again, and you have the basis for a successful episode.
I can very easily buy into the idea that B'Elanna fears her kid would end up like her because... well, I've known women like that. And if they had the ability to genetically modify their unborn kids to make them less like themselves then they might just do that. In a way it is sort of sweet because B'Elanna is looking out for the welfare of her child, but in another way it is very disturbing. As for the eventual realisation that she is also doing it because she fears Tom would leave her if their child ends up too Klingon, I think that the flashbacks gave that away too early, but that makes sense too.
Speaking of the flashbacks, one of my problems with the episode is the notion that B'Elanna's father would talk about leaving because of B'Elanna while sitting next to her tent is just a little too convenient. Emotionally it works but logically you'd think the guy had more sense than that. But my biggest problem with the episode was that B'Elanna goes uber-crazy at the end and reprograms Shmully to perform the procedure. Maybe it makes sense if the pregnancy is making her extra hormonal and whatnot, but I felt that it added a layer of tension which wasn't needed in an otherwise fantastic character episode.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
I've brought this up here before, but this episode makes me want to mention it again. I'm actually kind of surprised that GodBen didn't pick up on it, because he usually bitches about these kinds of things..
So you're half Klingon, and the only obvious way anybody can tell is your forehead ridges. Your child is going to look a lot like you.
But once again the obvious choices are thrown out the window.
CHOOSE A DAMN HAIRSTYLE THAT HIDES IT! But no, BLT wears her hair in a way that not only doesn't hide the ridges, it actually seems intended to show them off. It's stupid.
Or a slightly more extreme choice, how about plastic surgery to just get rid of them on her and on the child when she is old enough? Or does that make too much sense?? Rant over.
I've brought this up here before, but this episode makes me want to mention it again. I'm actually kind of surprised that GodBen didn't pick up on it, because he usually bitches about these kinds of things..
So you're half Klingon, and the only obvious way anybody can tell is your forehead ridges. Your child is going to look a lot like you.
But once again the obvious choices are thrown out the window.
CHOOSE A DAMN HAIRSTYLE THAT HIDES IT! But no, BLT wears her hair in a way that not only doesn't hide the ridges, it actually seems intended to show them off. It's stupid.
Or a slightly more extreme choice, how about plastic surgery to just get rid of them on her and on the child when she is old enough? Or does that make too much sense?? Rant over.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
RACIST!!!
Repentance (**½)
Being one of those enlightened European types (
), I am opposed to the death penalty. I guess that one of the problems that I have with this episode is that it took an hour to come to the conclusion that I already had, and it wasn't fair with its portrayal of the other side of the argument. The alien legal system is portrayed as being intransigent, the prison guards are shown to be brutal, and many on the crew judge the whole thing as being barbaric. The episode would have been far better if the other side of the argument had been given some subtlety.
There is some interesting concepts here, such as a man suffering because his conscience was turned on after the crime, and the idea of a legal system where the victims determine the punishment. It is a pity then that these concepts aren't utilised to their full potential, the majority of this episode seems to be scenes going over and over previous scenes. There's three scenes between Seven and Iko in sickbay which can be summed up like this:
A lot of the episode feels that way; the same scenes repeated in order to get the point across to the audience. For example, in one scene Seven explains her motivation to Iko, that she relates to him because of the horrible things she remembers doing as a Borg. Then she has almost the exact same conversation with Janeway. Then the episode ends with another scene explaining this again. I almost feel like knocking a point off for being a rehash of Cause and Effect.
One other thing that I noticed; all the violent criminals appear to be men. Is this some sort of revenge sexism for all the miniskirts and catsuits that women have had the wear?
Even that rant I made about how black people are the scum of society a few pages back?
RACIST!!!
To be fair, she does have a very big forehead and coming up with a hairstyle that would hide her ridges... I have a hard time thinking of one that wouldn't look silly. Which is probably why I failed in my attempt to become a hair-stylist.
Repentance (**½)
Being one of those enlightened European types (
), I am opposed to the death penalty. I guess that one of the problems that I have with this episode is that it took an hour to come to the conclusion that I already had, and it wasn't fair with its portrayal of the other side of the argument. The alien legal system is portrayed as being intransigent, the prison guards are shown to be brutal, and many on the crew judge the whole thing as being barbaric. The episode would have been far better if the other side of the argument had been given some subtlety.There is some interesting concepts here, such as a man suffering because his conscience was turned on after the crime, and the idea of a legal system where the victims determine the punishment. It is a pity then that these concepts aren't utilised to their full potential, the majority of this episode seems to be scenes going over and over previous scenes. There's three scenes between Seven and Iko in sickbay which can be summed up like this:
A lot of the episode feels that way; the same scenes repeated in order to get the point across to the audience. For example, in one scene Seven explains her motivation to Iko, that she relates to him because of the horrible things she remembers doing as a Borg. Then she has almost the exact same conversation with Janeway. Then the episode ends with another scene explaining this again. I almost feel like knocking a point off for being a rehash of Cause and Effect.
One other thing that I noticed; all the violent criminals appear to be men. Is this some sort of revenge sexism for all the miniskirts and catsuits that women have had the wear?
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Repentance gets 3 stars from me. It is a decent hour. What I found interesting was it was originally suppose to be a story where while Seven is down on an alien planet acquiring some macguffin she is recognized as Borg and taken into custody. The episode would have been about whether she should be held accountable for the assimilation of this species when she was a drone. The question would have been would she be responsible for the actions given that unlike most drones she had a bit more individuality and was a true believer in what the Borg did as opposed to your average drone.
Repentance gets 3 stars from me. It is a decent hour. What I found interesting was it was originally suppose to be a story where while Seven is down on an alien planet acquiring some macguffin she is recognized as Borg and taken into custody. The episode would have been about whether she should be held accountable for the assimilation of this species when she was a drone. The question would have been would she be responsible for the actions given that unlike most drones she had a bit more individuality and was a true believer in what the Borg did as opposed to your average drone.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
It has a lot of potential to be a great episode, but so did what we got. It really depends on how the story was executed, but I probably would have preferred to see the original version.
Prophesy (*½)
And then the Klingons show up. Makes sense, Voyager has to be in the Beta Quadrant by now, and that is where the Klingons live. Admittedly they live on the other side of the Beta Quadrant and Voyager is more likely to bump into a group of Romulans but... hey, there's an idea!
Voyager comes across a Romulan ship, they get into a fight, the Romulan ship is destroyed, Janeway rescues some of them and they're forced to integrate with one another. It would be similar to this episode, but it would be infinitely better because it would have Romulans.
This episode has some good ideas but it doesn't explore them well. I like the idea of Voyager's crew having to accommodate the fact that the majority of the people aboard are now Klingons, that is a very serious situation and it deserves to be explored to its fullest. Instead we get Neelix bumping his furry ugly with a Klingon woman's ridged ugly. (I apologise for that image.) And I like the idea of exploring the prophesy and B'Elanna's place within it, but instead that is used as an excuse to have a bat'leth fight, something which was already overused on DS9.
Then the episode pulls a Day of the Dove on us by having a bunch of Klingons attempt to commandeer the ship. Why? How did that move the plot along? If the episode had been about the Voyager crew having trouble integrating the Klingons then it would have been fine, but this episode is about a prophesy and some disease the Klingons have picked up, the firefight on the bridge had no purpose.
Then the Klingons go to some planet because B'Elanna's unborn kid told them to (or something). The end.
It has a lot of potential to be a great episode, but so did what we got. It really depends on how the story was executed, but I probably would have preferred to see the original version.
Prophesy (*½)
And then the Klingons show up. Makes sense, Voyager has to be in the Beta Quadrant by now, and that is where the Klingons live. Admittedly they live on the other side of the Beta Quadrant and Voyager is more likely to bump into a group of Romulans but... hey, there's an idea!
Voyager comes across a Romulan ship, they get into a fight, the Romulan ship is destroyed, Janeway rescues some of them and they're forced to integrate with one another. It would be similar to this episode, but it would be infinitely better because it would have Romulans. This episode has some good ideas but it doesn't explore them well. I like the idea of Voyager's crew having to accommodate the fact that the majority of the people aboard are now Klingons, that is a very serious situation and it deserves to be explored to its fullest. Instead we get Neelix bumping his furry ugly with a Klingon woman's ridged ugly. (I apologise for that image.) And I like the idea of exploring the prophesy and B'Elanna's place within it, but instead that is used as an excuse to have a bat'leth fight, something which was already overused on DS9.
Then the episode pulls a Day of the Dove on us by having a bunch of Klingons attempt to commandeer the ship. Why? How did that move the plot along? If the episode had been about the Voyager crew having trouble integrating the Klingons then it would have been fine, but this episode is about a prophesy and some disease the Klingons have picked up, the firefight on the bridge had no purpose.
Then the Klingons go to some planet because B'Elanna's unborn kid told them to (or something). The end.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
As you said, positive points for trying a Klingon episode here, since meeting far-flung bits of Alpha Quadrant species is a credible plot idea at this point, but the execution left a lot to be desired.
As you said, positive points for trying a Klingon episode here, since meeting far-flung bits of Alpha Quadrant species is a credible plot idea at this point, but the execution left a lot to be desired.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Unfortunately for some bizarre reason they decided to make this lackluster episode a major plot point in the recent Voyager books
When I watch Voyager I don't want Klingons, Ferengi, Romulans or any of the other normal Trek species.
What I want to see are new races in the Delta quadrant. Otherwise what is the point of the show? Sure we got some of that, but everytime one of the old familiar species pops up I just cringe.
Unfortunately for some bizarre reason they decided to make this lackluster episode a major plot point in the recent Voyager books
When I watch Voyager I don't want Klingons, Ferengi, Romulans or any of the other normal Trek species.
What I want to see are new races in the Delta quadrant. Otherwise what is the point of the show? Sure we got some of that, but everytime one of the old familiar species pops up I just cringe.
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