A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

[startrekwatcher]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Well then why don't you do a season seven capsule review and wrap it up and move on to ENT. Hey that was the attitude from the people working on VOY at the time Maybe interest in that will peak especially with the last two seasons and we'll get a thread as interesting as this was at one time.

Afterall season seven was pretty bland. Biller's much talked about take over of the writing staff really didn't change much and I found this a step down from season six and for a final season there was a lot of pointless filler clogging the airwaves.

 

[Jayson]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Well then why don't you do a season seven capsule review and wrap it up and move on to ENT. Hey that was the attitude from the people working on VOY at the time Maybe interest in that will peak especially with the last two seasons and we'll get a thread as interesting as this was at one time.

Afterall season seven was pretty bland. Biller's much talked about take over of the writing staff really didn't change much and I found this a step down from season six and for a final season there was a lot of pointless filler clogging the airwaves.

NO! He needs to do all the ep's. It just wouldn't feel complete. Then he can do the Enterprise reviews, and afterwards we can decide together on the next show he will review. We might even let him have a say in it.

Jason

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I've come this far so I may as well finish the thing off properly, the thread is still getting good views after all. It is also seeming likely that I'll be going back to college to do my masters next month, so depending upon that I could be very busy soon. I don't want to start Enterprise until I know how busy I'm going to be so I may as well use this last month of freedom to finish off Voyager, then I'll see where I stand in terms of time-management, then I'll start Enterprise. I don't want Enterprise to be a debacle like Jammer's TNG reviews.

Then he can do the Enterprise reviews, and afterwards we can decide together on the next show he will review.

If the Enterprise thread turns out to be popular then I already agreed to do DS9 next, it's going to be my reward for watching all of Voyager.

 

[Count Zero]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I also want to read your opinion of "Author, Author" and its implications for the character of the Federation, so I'm pleased to know you'll continue this thread.

 

[kimc]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Unimatrix Zero, Part 2 (*½)

JANEWAY: I don't compromise with Borg.

From Scorpion, Part 2:

JANEWAY: I've reached an agreement with the Collective.

Nah, lets not let facts get in the way of a kewl one-liner.

Hold on - you're not accounting for one thing here. Janeway struck that deal with the borg at the end of Season 3 only to watch them betray that deal in Scorpion 2 when Seven tried to assimilate the ship after the borg got what they wanted. Lucky thing they were prepared for that. Was she compromising with the borg then? She struck a deal but was prepared for them to renege on it.

Forward to three years later: "I don't compromise with the borg." Well if I took a shot at a deal three years previously and saw that deal fall through I would have a no compromise policy too. That's called "lessons learned" or as Scotty once said "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."

 

[Seven of Five]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I still read the thread regularly, it's a brilliant read. I comment less because all I ever find myself making are very basic comments about episodes. Every other episode has been a bit mediocre, and it kinda makes you glare over the better episodes.

I'll try and post more though, season seven of VOY was where I dipped my own toes into the world of online reviewing, so maybe I'll have more to say.

 

[Frazzled]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Actually I was wondering if we could persuade GodBen to do Voyager all over again starting at the beginning

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Well if I took a shot at a deal three years previously and saw that deal fall through I would have a no compromise policy too. That's called "lessons learned" or as Scotty once said "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."

I suppose that's possible, but something about the way she said it ticked me off. The delivery was very saccharin; too rich for my tastes.


Imperfection (***)

Seven's cortical node starts to break down and it needs to be replaced on the double, so Shmully uses one of the nodes he removed from Janeway, Tuvok and Torres once they were deborgified last week. The end.

What do you mean that's not what happened? They go looking for a Borg cortical node in a debris field instead? Well what happened to all the Borg stuff Shmully removed from the others? Neelix got really high on space peyote and thought he was an imp so he stole it all from sickbay and flushed it down the toilet? Aw, I'm upset that I missed that. At least tell me that in a nod to continuity they went back to the debris field of the Borg tactical cube that was destroyed last week so that they could get one from a recently deceased Borg. It's just a random debris field they were passing, you say? Aw poo.

(I know this episode got switched around with the next one so I'll save my comments about the Delta Flyer II until then.)

There's some decent character stuff for Seven in this episode, and Icheb was well utilised at the end. His decision to risk his own life to save Seven because she refused to let him help her was good. Holding the episode back was the fact that it felt like it was going through the motions for the first half, and there was some annoying dialogue, especially the bit about the tear at the end.

Torpedoes: 81/38

SEVEN: My link to the Collective has been severed for nearly four years.

Three years.

JANEWAY: If I'd accepted reality six years ago I'd have settled on the first M class planet we came across. Instead, I'm 30,000 light years closer to Bloomington, Indiana.

40,000 light years.

Godsdammit!! They were the seven smartest and funniest people on the ship, why were they killed off?!! They should have at least kept Josh around.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Is it me or has this once highly active and interesting thread started to run out of gas. Nobody hardly comments anymore.

My two cents on this topic is that we're burnt out. We've voiced our complaints about the show over and over again that it's getting more and more difficult to come up with some grievance about the stories told and the roads not taken that we haven't already voiced.

 

[Akiraprise]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Is it me or has this once highly active and interesting thread started to run out of gas. Nobody hardly comments anymore.

My two cents on this topic is that we're burnt out. We've voiced our complaints about the show over and over again that it's getting more and more difficult to come up with some grievance about the stories told and the roads not taken that we haven't already voiced.

People are still reading, but most probably agree with GodBen's reviews. I'm sure he doesn't want to see all "I agree!" "You are brilliant!" "Can I have your babies?!" in response to every review he posts.

 

[tomalak301]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^Actually I wonder if part of it is the other way as well. I mean I like Voyager, but reading just every episode being hated and picking it apart inch by inch is getting a little tiring. Sure the show needed a lot of work, and it wasn't all that terrific, but this is really been the most active thread in this forum lately and perhaps the negativity is getting a bit tiring.

 

[Akiraprise]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I agree with a lot of the points GodBen makes in his reviews. But I'm certainly no hater. I just think that Voyager had a lot of potential that was not realized, unfortunately. Despite all of the faults that can be found in episodes I still think of VOY as my favorite Trek. VOY is what it is because of UPN. They wanted a TNG clone even though VOY's premise didn't lend itself to that type of show format.

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Also season 7 of Voyager did run out of gas.

GodBen makes good points, though I do not agree with some of them. But overall this thread has been interesting read.

And what comes to Voyager's flaws - none of the Trek series were perfect. When watching them under a "critical microscope" each of them have similar issues for fans to complain. What differs are the fans and what they see as the most important thing for a Trek episode. And which are the characters they love most.

 

[Seven of Five]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Godben - I agree, I think you're brilliant, and I want your babies!

Actually I rather enjoyed Imperfection, despite all of the medical/borg technobabble that was thrown around. It was a very nice episode for Icheb and Seven. Of course the Delta Flyer is used despite not being fixed till the next episode. And of course there are no repercussions from the previous episode. *tongue in cheek*

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'm beginning to feel like Admiral Adama, the thread is falling down around me but I'm desperately trying to hold it together long enough for one last battle at Endgame.

I'm sure he doesn't want to see all "I agree!" "You are brilliant!" "Can I have your babies?!" in response to every review he posts.

How little you know me.

Godben - I agree, I think you're brilliant, and I want your babies!

Much better!

 

[kes7]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Godsdammit!! They were the seven smartest and funniest people on the ship, why were they killed off?!! They should have at least kept Josh around.

Where's First Officer/Lt. Cmdr. Cavit? The original CMO? Stadi? Suder? Any of the dozen or so others who died during Caretaker? Who the hell is Commander Bartlett, and why wasn't he or she the original XO?

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Because they couldn't afford Martin Sheen, I would assume.

 

[Bertie]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Imperfection (***)

In the midst of Voyager running out of steam, let us at least summon enough energy to note that here the show, once again, uses one of its "kids" in a respectable, non-annoying way — something that had eluded all Trek up to the introduction of Naomi and Icheb.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Godsdammit!! They were the seven smartest and funniest people on the ship, why were they killed off?!! They should have at least kept Josh around.

Where's First Officer/Lt. Cmdr. Cavit? The original CMO? Stadi? Suder? Any of the dozen or so others who died during Caretaker? Who the hell is Commander Bartlett, and why wasn't he or she the original XO?

Hey, I'm giving them credit for remembering two dead characters we actually met at all, Ballard and Kaplan. Especially Kaplan - She died in season 3.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Drive (***)

Allow me to take off my Voyager hating hat and put on my general Trek hating hat for a moment, because I'm tired of Star Trek dramatically blowing up ships and then undoing it by reintroducing the exact same ship again. TSFS was the first to do it, Kirk had to blow up the Enterprise in order to save Spock and it was an emotional sacrifice with real depth due to how iconic that ship is. Along comes TVH and they get the exact same ship back, but with an A. DS9 did it too, they make a very bold move by blowing up the Defiant to show the audience how powerful the Breen are and then they get another Defiant class ship for the final episode, except this one has a hideous carpet.

Now Voyager does it too with the Delta Flyer, they blow up a ship which had become a staple of the show and then they build a second one within a few days. I wouldn't mind it so much were it not for the fact that I find the Delta Flyer to be a formless lump, it looks like someone tried to make a cross between a sports car and a caravan. I was hoping that they'd build a new design but instead we get a few extra impulse engines at the back and ugly orange panels on the inside.

I've been getting some heavy sci-fi action recently from a play-through of Mass Effect, so today was one of those odd days where I was looking for some light fluff from Voyager, and that's what it mostly delivered. I'm not a fan of the terrorist sub-plot, but its a means to an end so I'll let it slide.

My biggest problem with the episode was B'Elanna's about face at the end. She made a realisation at the beginning of the episode that she and Tom weren't supposed to be together, and that made a lot of sense to me. Maybe their relationship is great most of the time, but about 75% of what appears on screen is them arguing or Tom acting like an ass, so I don't know why she's with him. She makes this realisation, but at the end she gets swayed by his terribly unconvincing proclamations of love and she marries him instead. Ah well, I guess I'll just never understand women.

As for Janeway letting Tom and B'Elanna spend their honeymoon in the new Delta Flyer... eww! I'm not exactly a prude, but I would not feel comfortable sitting on one of those chairs imagining what they two of them might have gotten up to.

Torpedoes: 82/38

O'ZAAL: If your racing skills are as sharp as your diplomatic instincts, the other teams won't have a chance.

And if your racing skills are as sharp as your acting, you're going to crash and seriously injure several innocent bystanders.